Thread: US school shootings Shocking

Originally Posted by BossMan

There IS something wrong with American culture. I was born in America and lived there for 22 years, and I could never put my finger on it but I always got the feeling there was something off about it. I did a bit of research and I found something absolutely appalling, look at the wiki article List of Serial Killers by Country. Now make a comparison of serial killers in countries with 5 times the American population like India or China and see how many serial killers they have had in there history in comparison to America.... No one even comes close.

Holy crap that is really scary!! The american list is so long it has it's own page.

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

Why was the shooter a lonely social outcast? why did he choose to shoot all those children? all over the world there are social outcasts who deal with it in other ways.
If it happened once or twice then no link could be established but if it has happened tens of times surely there must be something wrong with the american culture.

This is true but it has nothing to do with the question; and according to sanctispiritus the statistics don't bear it out at all, it's generally people who are fine financially.

If it has to do with the American culture, it's because we shun the mentally-ill or mentally-unstable, rather than trying to help them. We further ostracize social outcasts by tormenting them for being social outcasts, rather than inviting them in.

And then the news decides to say the name of the killer 500 times an hour and show his photo for weeks, and not even acknowledge the names of the victims. We're setting ourselves up for more.

Originally Posted by Xei

This is true but it has nothing to do with the question; and according to sanctispiritus the statistics don't bear it out at all, it's generally people who are fine financially.

Well I never said that the shooter was poor, I just meant the problems in american culture are caused by economic inequality.

It is not just cultural enviroment it is also the availbility of guns. In China there has been quite a few of espisodes of disturbed men atacking children in schoool. Mos of the time the used knives. If those men had used guns insted, take for sure that the number of children killed would have been more than 10 or 12,

In the last 30 years china has had 4 serial killers including the one you are speaking about in which 6 children were killed.

In the last 30 years USA has had over 100 serial killers, one notable one is Ted Bundy in which was convicted for over 30 murders but admitted to over 100.

Also the availability in guns plays no role in the mental sickness of people. If they want guns they will just obtain it illegally or through a legal loophole. Gun control is over exaggerated and does not play as large of a role as people think it does. It has to do with the American society and culture in my opinion.

Originally Posted by sanctispiritus

It is not just cultural enviroment it is also the availbility of guns. In China there has been quite a few of espisodes of disturbed men atacking children in schoool. Mos of the time the used knives. If those men had used guns insted, take for sure that the number of children killed would have been more than 10 or 12,

You cant guarantee that they would use guns, Maybe Knives was just their thing.

I do think it has something with American culture, which is screwed up in many ways, but I think maybe most of it has to do with the competitive/bullying nature of America. You people who live in other countries will need to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like others are more accepting of loners/outcasts in most other places.

The competitive nature here causes people to put others down to elevate themselves, and think of number one rather than the group as a whole. Easy targets are separated and picked on.

Also, I think there is a lack of accepting responsibility for one's own choices. Certainly no one should be bullying another person, and I do not mean to excuse that behavior, but maybe the victim should be thinking about ways to grow from that experience instead of just blaming and hating everyone. Or when they don't get a job, or don't have a lot of friends, or do poorly at something or aren't where they want to be... Maybe instead of shoving all that blame onto other people, they accept the things that they should have done or that they did wrong, and change accordingly.

This also rolls over to the gun debate, maybe people should blame the person wielding the weapon and not the weapon itself. The gun is a tool, and some people use it in ways that it should not be used. I do not think that more gun control is the answer, Conn has fairly strict laws regarding guns. Someone said to my husband "There's no law that can prevent bat-shit crazy", and he was right. People who want to do something will find a way to do so.

Also it seems like criminals like to pick on the defenseless, they want their "job" to be easy. Maybe if one of the teachers or the principal had a gun locked up in their room, they could have shot the bastard instead of cowering or rushing him with nothing except hope.

Artesis , I disagree with you. If each teacher had a hidden gun in their room we will begin to see espisodes in which those guns are used in the wrong way. I do no want to read in a newspaper headline news like this one;

" Feb. 24th ,2013. Houston.
In small town outside of Houston, a professor who recently lost his job shot the principal , and then his students killing 28 them. Then he took his life. "

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

Well I never said that the shooter was poor, I just meant the problems in american culture are caused by economic inequality.

I don't really see how that would work, though? Please describe the nature of the link between economic inequality and the actions of this man (or men like him).

Originally Posted by sanctispiritus

Artesis , I disagree with you. If each teacher had a hidden gun in their room we will begin to see espisodes in which those guns are used in the wrong way. I do no want to read in a newspaper headline news like this one;

" Feb. 24th ,2013. Houston.
In small town outside of Houston, a professor who recently lost his job shot the principal , and then his students killing 28 them. Then he took his life. "

Who said teachers need a gun hidden in their room? I agree that wouldn't help, but more guns doesn't mean more mentally insane people, it just means we have more guns. I honestly don't think guns have any good use, but most people don't think hunting is wrong and my beliefs shouldn't affect them. Guns aren't the problem here.

What I was trying to say earlier was that Americans get dozens of vaccines when they're born and then dozens more while they're a kid, then flu shots every year and other shots every few years. Vaccines have mercury in them. Depending on how much is in them and how many they get, it could cause mercury poisoning which can cause people to not be able to control their emotions. I don't know if this could be one of the reasons America has so much violence, but it is possible.

I also agree with ThePreserver, making murderers celebrities only makes it worse. It doesn't take a genius to realize that other people who have mental problems that make them violent will see it on TV and copy them.

Originally Posted by Xei

I don't really see how that would work, though? Please describe the nature of the link between economic inequality and the actions of this man (or men like him).

Allow me to explain for him, its actually very simple.

Money brings security to people, and those who do not have much money will have insecurity within their family. This causes pressure and tension within a family. Twelve-year old Billy is feeling pretty insecure within his own household, so how can he make himself feel better? Well by bringing others down. It shouldn't be news to you that people generally feed of each others miseries. Most of the time this is not expressed outwardly though, and is generally a sign of deep insecurity.

Now lets take the opposite side of Timmy who is being bullied by Billy. Timmy comes from a wealthy and intellectual family. He gets good grades in school, but is somewhat meek and chooses to be reserved. Billy does not want to feed his insecurity on the star athlete who will kick his ass, so he goes to poor Timmy who is just minding his own business. Now Timmy has security at home, but insecurity socially, despite his excellent situation he allowed the insecure Billy to take advantage of his personality and bring him down.

Allowing something like this to be ingrained in someone breeds irrational hatred, it manifests itself and loses control. I'm not saying bullying is the only example of how a persons economic situation effects him, its just one.

No matter what people always have insecurity about how wealthy their families are. I can sense it, certain things they say, small things they do. This does not mean you are predisposed to trashing on people or becoming a psycho, it just gives a justifiable reason.

Google Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (Shooters of the infamous Columbine massacre) for before and after pictures, see how radically they changed in such a short period of time. Both came from wealthy families who cared and loved both of them.

Originally Posted by sanctispiritus

Artesis , I disagree with you. If each teacher had a hidden gun in their room we will begin to see espisodes in which those guns are used in the wrong way. I do no want to read in a newspaper headline news like this one;

" Feb. 24th ,2013. Houston.
In small town outside of Houston, a professor who recently lost his job shot the principal , and then his students killing 28 them. Then he took his life. "

You're missing her point entirely, if this professor has set his mind on killing the principal and students because he had lost his job, then hes going to do it whether a gun is sitting under his desk or he has to get it from a Harlem gangster. Its just political bullshit to shift the blame on something else so left wing lobbyists can get what they want which is strict unneeded gun regulations.

But if he did have a gun in his room it would at least serve as a deterrent for bat-shit crazies from shooting-up his classroom, much like nuclear warheads are currently serving as a deterrent of major wars.

The U.S. school shooting that kicked off the high school shooting craze of the 90's in the U.S. happened in Pearl, Mississippi. It's a suburb of Jackson. The rampage was stopped by the principal, who had gone to his truck, grabbed his gun, and come back into the school.

The truth is, as some have said, that the United States is a relatively very violent country. We have a higher percentage of murders because we have a higher percentage of violent assholes. I am not sure why that is, but it is the truth. It does not make sense to blame the problem on inanimate objects (guns). The problem is with the people who use them. We don't just have an extra high occurrence per capita of shootings. We have an extra high occurrence per capita of violence in general. Guns don't pull their own triggers. Violent people pull them. What we need to answer is why so many Americans are sociopaths.

Banning guns is far from what we should do. The violent people we are concerned about would still have guns if they were banned, and then they would know that the good people who just want to defend themselves are scared to own guns. Things would get much worse.

If guns are banned, can anybody guarantee me that the next asshole who breaks into my house won't have a gun? I don't have much hope in a war on guns. How has that war on drugs been going?

Besides that I think what often goes unconsidered is that just banning guns won't make them disappear. There are a lot of guns in the United States. You could attempt to organize a gun destruction program but that has its problems, too. It'd be expensive and I don't think people would be too happy to have to hand over their legally acquired guns to be destroyed. If guns were something that had just been introduced into the country that might be a practical approach but as it stands I just don't think it's going to be feasible.

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

I'd say the root of all the USA's problems comes down to extreme economic inequality. The american culture is constantly fueled by the huge contrast between rich and poor. The poor wish to be like the rich, the rich don't want this and stop the poor. America has developed in a way so that if you are rich you can have the best life you want, if you are poor you will have shit. The poor will always want what the rich have but are too uneducated to do anything because only the rich can afford good schools and so the cycle continues.
Beyond the landmarks and incredible nature, the USA is probably one of the biggest s**tholes of the first world, they say that it is the most powerful and great country in the world yet it seems to be lacking in almost every aspect.

That's not it. We have the richest "poor" people in the world, and we are the richest nation in the world. That is why we are the most powerful and technologically advanced. "They" don't just say that. It's the truth. We do have a problem with violence, but it's not because of a lack of wealth. Our poor class has a problem with obesity.

Ahh guns Killed these Kids, Not the Guy, Its the Guns Fault, Ban All Guns Destroy the Guns take them away.

The richest poor people? What is so different about trailer park white trash from poverty stricken Serbs in Kosovo? No offense but another problem I noticed from American culture is staunch arrogance that it is the "richest" and "best" country in the world. You can be rich in a number of different ways other then economic wealth (which were not exactly doing so great on either), for example, I don't think America is culturally rich like France or China.

Also the majority of gun violence is not school shootings and crazy serial killers, its thieves and robbers from low-income areas, go figure.

Don't get what I'm saying the wrong way, America has a lot to be proud of and brought for some of the most important innovators and pioneers of this generation. But its important to not let this over-boost our ego, we have our own problems and they won't be fixed unless they are recognized first.

There is a clear and undeniable distinction between the wealthy and the poor in America, and it does lead to violence.

Originally Posted by BossMan

The richest poor people? What is so different about trailer park white trash from poverty stricken Serbs in Kosovo? No offense but another problem I noticed from American culture is staunch arrogance that it is the "richest" and "best" country in the world. You can be rich in a number of different ways other then economic wealth (which were not exactly doing so great on either), for example, I don't think America is culturally rich like France or China.

Also the majority of gun violence is not school shootings and crazy serial killers, its thieves and robbers from low-income areas, go figure.

Don't get what I'm saying the wrong way, America has a lot to be proud of and brought for some of the most important innovators and pioneers of this generation. But its important to not let this over-boost our ego, we have our own problems and they won't be fixed unless they are recognized first.

There is a clear and undeniable distinction between the wealthy and the poor in America, and it does lead to violence.

It's a fact. The U.S. is the wealthiest country in the world, and our poor people are rich by world standards. Our "trailer park white trash" has televisions, stereos, DVD players, video game systems, cell phones, automobiles, regular trips to McDonald's, and... guns. Our rich people are so rich that there might be an extra big gap between rich and poor, but how is that a problem? Are rich people fucking up by being too successful? Should we shun them for doing too well?

Of course poor people are going to be riskier than richer classes when it comes to getting richer, but that doesn't mean poverty is the explanation for our problem of gun violence. We are talking about people who can spend hundreds of dollars on guns. Also, a lot of our poor people are poor because they are lazy. It is usually lazy people who turn to theft to get money. It's quicker and simpler than working for a living.

Since when did the US standard for wealth become the world standard for wealth? This is what I'm talking about when I say Americans can be arrogant. We have our own values just as other people in the world have their own values. In certain parts of India they don't give a rats ass about any of the technology you just mentioned and don't gauge wealth based of that. The Amish reject technology all together.

Believe it or not, but there are people out there that live happier lives out of a shed then do people in mansions.

The majority of poor people are not poor because they are lazy, this is something Mitt Romney would say. Just because you were raised in an environment were you are enabled and given the proper tools to be successful doesn't mean everyone else is. Some people are raised in families that don't have the money to send their children to university, and even if they do go to university through student loans the current job market is so shitty they would probably end up busting tables for a few years to pay those loans off and even that is under the assumption said poor person even has the capabilities to succeed in school were he can go to university to begin with, after all not all of us share the same mental capabilities. Not to mention the other complications that come with this like commuting, textbooks, and supplies.

How about a skilled laborer who lost his job due to the recession, and has a wife and 3 children? How is he suppose to pay his bills let alone put food on the table? He can't find a job because no one is hiring, his children are starving so what is he suppose to do? Rob someone, maybe, after all guns are the easiest way to gain leverage against people.

Also guns are not all expensive, not everyone goes for a Smith & Wesson or Glock. You can get handguns for under $60, which to a desperate person may seem like a long term investment.

You simply cannot say people are poor because they are lazy, its infinitely more complicated that. Also I'm not saying the wealth disparity in the US is the singular reason for gun violence but rather a contributing factor.

Why don't you do a bit of research, how many Americans do you think make less than $25,000 dollars a year (I'll save you the trouble, 36% that's 108 million Americans). You probably live in a wealthy neighborhood and go to school with other wealthy people so your view is not quite broad enough to understand how dire the economic situation currently is in America, you simply have no idea and it boils down to a lot more then laziness.

FYI, the amount of Americans that make over $100,000 a year is a paltry 10%

Originally Posted by Woodstock

Who said teachers need a gun hidden in their room? I agree that wouldn't help, but more guns doesn't mean more mentally insane people, it just means we have more guns. I honestly don't think guns have any good use, but most people don't think hunting is wrong and my beliefs shouldn't affect them. Guns aren't the problem here.

There's a difference between a hunting rifle and a handgun. The former is meant to put food on the table, while the latter is meant to kill people.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

That's not it. We have the richest "poor" people in the world, and we are the richest nation in the world. That is why we are the most powerful and technologically advanced. "They" don't just say that. It's the truth. We do have a problem with violence, but it's not because of a lack of wealth. Our poor class has a problem with obesity.

No, no and no. If you look up GDP per capia, you will see that this is simply not true. But it is a moot point anyway. As it turns out social inequality is a far better correlated with social problems and unrest than absolute wealth, and the US has a very great difference between rich and poor. This is a good video on the subject.

Originally Posted by ♥Mark

Besides that I think what often goes unconsidered is that just banning guns won't make them disappear. There are a lot of guns in the United States. You could attempt to organize a gun destruction program but that has its problems, too. It'd be expensive and I don't think people would be too happy to have to hand over their legally acquired guns to be destroyed. If guns were something that had just been introduced into the country that might be a practical approach but as it stands I just don't think it's going to be feasible.

17 years ago Martin Bryant shot 35 in Tasmainia. Prime Minister John Howard brought in Australia's gun laws. Then there was, and is, the big gun buy-back.

gun suicide and shootings plumeted.

Now, you're 17 times more likely to be shot in America than Australia.

We do get shootings here but it is usually between Bikey gangs.

I think drugs are a big part of it, and I am not talking about illegal drugs but the legal kind. Things like antidepressants and extremely dangerous if not properly prescribed and used. Almost all of these mass shootings, and a lot of the other really sick things people do in the US are linked to drug use.

If you suffer a sudden psychotic episode even without a gun you might go on a rampage and start stabbing everyone and it would be hard to stop you.

Originally Posted by khh

There's a difference between a hunting rifle and a handgun. The former is meant to put food on the table, while the latter is meant to kill people.


No, no and no. If you look up GDP per capia, you will see that this is simply not true. But it is a moot point anyway. As it turns out social inequality is a far better correlated with social problems and unrest than absolute wealth, and the US has a very great difference between rich and poor. This is a good video on the subject.

I agree, I just happen to believe that those social problems are as a result of the disparity in incomes amongst Americans.