DV and LD4ALL

I found this thread at LD4ALL which is somewhat irritating. Also, DreamBliss has posted at the bottom, raging on nina for being a cruel mod. Some quotes from that thread (not all from the same person):

Spoiler for Quotes from linked thread:

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that's one of the reasons I joined LD4all instead of DV myself. It's a hella lot more friendly and warm in here

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There's a different culture there, true, one that tolerates a lot more trolling than here. But not every forum needs to feel like family: they're very competent

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I have been to pretty much all the dream sites out there, and by far, Dreamviews has the most corrupt moderation of any site.

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If you haven't made friends with the atleast some of the many Mods after you join, and someone labels you a troll, or you say anything they don't like, even non-insulting, they have a variety of ways to make your stay there, frustrating, degrading, and if it leads to a banning, then the humiliation doesn't end there.
It is a competitive site. They see other dream forums as competition.

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Originally Posted by DreamBliss

I also started a sort of DreamViews hookup thread, and a female moderator there decided, as near as I can tell, that she didn't like me. Probably due to a still earlier thread I started offering myself for a hookup for Valentine's day that in the end gave everyone some good laughs. She insulted me, called me desperate among other things, talked like no female I have ever met (or would ever want to meet)

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DreamBliss himself seems unaware of the hacking situation at DV, not that it matters now. I suppose I've never been a member of another LDing forum, so I don't know whether the ideas expressed have any basis.

It angers me a lot, because to me, DV is like a big 'family' (for lack of a better word). That "not every forum needs to feel like family" comment pissed me off more than anything. The hacking situation has made me feel that to be true more than usual. Although, if I separate myself I realise I may be experiencing some sort of 'hive mentality' and so perhaps my antagonistic feelings are irrational.

I didn't read the entire thread on LD4ALL yet, but did check out the post by pdiddles03 and I'm shocked at some replies he got, mainly first couple of them. I don't think anybody would feel good if he got mean replies like that.

On the other hand, I think it's an exception from the rule, because DV is one of the most friendly and helpfull forums out there.
I go and read the rest of the post on LD4ALL now.

Why do people seem to think we have a problem with trolls on this board? I can't think of a single person here who actually goes out of their way to act like one. Sure we have a few members that like to put things rather bluntly (Xei, greenhavoc, etc) but they're merely voicing their honest opinions, not trolling. No one really gets their ideas bashed on here unless they truly are being ridiculous. The only difference between DV and most other dreaming sites is the fact that, for the most part, we're a little more secular and "down to earth," while most other sites are full of "spiritual" hippies who feel that their outlandish theories should be taken seriously (when they really shouldn't).

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Originally Posted by GavinGill

Why do people seem to think we have a problem with trolls on this board? I can't think of a single person here who actually goes out of their way to act like one. Sure we have a few members that like to put things rather bluntly (Xei, greenhavoc, etc) but they're merely voicing their honest opinions, not trolling. No one really gets their ideas bashed on here unless they truly are being ridiculous. The only difference between DV and most other dreaming sites is the fact that, for the most part, we're a little more secular and "down to earth," while most other sites are full of "spiritual" hippies who feel that their outlandish theories should be taken seriously (when they really shouldn't).

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Dreamviews mostly secular? Thats your opinion.

Most people I talk to on this forum are those "spiritual hippies" who get bashed for simply sharing their worldviews

Seems there is some confusion over there.

Dreamviews.com hacked - DV members, change your passwords


pasQuale:

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It got to my attention that DV got hacked. (not including the link here for security reasons).

If you are a member of both DV and LD4all I advise you strongly to immediately change your LD4all password if you use the same one for both forums.

more info here:
Dreamviews.com Domain Hijacked : LucidDreaming dreamviewscom_domain_hijacked/

(paste link in your browser if you can't click it.)

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__________________________________________________ ______________________

Yesac5678:

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Due to them being hacked they pretty much shut down the web site, and while this is still an amazing website, my favorite dream induction technique probably died with the site.

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Pensive Patrick:

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Hi guys, I'm a regular at Dreamviews which is currently hacked. The version up at the moment is fake and has been for ten days to farm passwords I believe. I don't really know anything else, just wondering if there are any other DVers around here who might know anything more about it? Kinda wondering what to do and when it's gonna come back up.

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Originally Posted by GavinGill

Sure we have a few members that like to put things rather bluntly (Xei, greenhavoc, etc) but they're merely voicing their honest opinions, not trolling. No one really gets their ideas bashed on here unless they truly are being ridiculous.

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Xei is blunt and even his apparent trolling has reason. But I honestly think greenhavoc's purpose is to troll, to upset people. It's just usually intertwined with enough honesty to be overlooked.

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Originally Posted by juroara

Dreamviews mostly secular? Thats your opinion.

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I think it's mostly secular. Beyond Dreaming and The Inner Sanctum constitute the forum's little corner of those who believe spiritual stuff. If you spend most of your time there I see why you'd think there were a lot of people like that on the forum, but if you did spend more time on the rest of the forum you'd see that it is quite secular.

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Originally Posted by melanieb

Seems there is some confusion over there.

Dreamviews.com hacked - DV members, change your passwords

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Could someone with an account on ld4all please post in that thread to the inform them that we are still here? Also that they should be concerned with changing all of their passwords, not just their ld4all one, as though that's something the hackers would be the least bit interested in.

Rofl

Well, here's one vote for Dreamviews! If we're an internet community-family, then call me bro and wish me good luck on getting that next lucid! ;)

My opinion on this matter is completely unbiased.

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Originally Posted by Signet

...then call me bro and wish me good luck on getting that next lucid! ;)...

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http://k.wigflip.com/2ZXM1Ejg/roflbot.jpg

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Originally Posted by ♥Mark

My opinion on this matter is completely unbiased.

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lolzies. same. ;)

◕ ◡ ◕
We're an unbiased lot here at DV. Not like those clowns on L4Dall. They're the biasedest people I've ever read a few posts of.

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Originally Posted by GavinGill

Why do people seem to think we have a problem with trolls on this board? I can't think of a single person here who actually goes out of their way to act like one. Sure we have a few members that like to put things rather bluntly (Xei, greenhavoc, etc) but they're merely voicing their honest opinions, not trolling. No one really gets their ideas bashed on here unless they truly are being ridiculous. The only difference between DV and most other dreaming sites is the fact that, for the most part, we're a little more secular and "down to earth," while most other sites are full of "spiritual" hippies who feel that their outlandish theories should be taken seriously (when they really shouldn't).

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And then there was Mayflow....

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Originally Posted by Dianeva

I think it's mostly secular. Beyond Dreaming and The Inner Sanctum constitute the forum's little corner of those who believe spiritual stuff. If you spend most of your time there I see why you'd think there were a lot of people like that on the forum, but if you did spend more time on the rest of the forum you'd see that it is quite secular.

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And Deep Dreaming, which you need to be mod approved to get access to. A place without sceptics.

From the start I was always turned off by the sort of spiritual, mystic attitude that LD4ALL's design seems to emphasize, honestly I feel like that is the wrong approach here - if LaBerge hadn't painstakingly dragged lucid dreaming into the scope of scientific rigor, chances are none of us would be here discussing it. I have to admit that I'm not very familiar with the community, but some of this is not hard to gather. I am quite surprised by some of the things I'm reading in that thread, though.

As I write this, I just noticed that the thread was about 6 months, and DreamBliss revived it to complain. I understand that more scientifically-minded people make up a majority of the population here, but I remember the thread he's talking about, and the arguments he put forth made little sense. There's a difference between having an honest opinion shunned, and simply making a weak argument and having its weakness pointed out to you.

Also, I can't help but wonder if maybe the conception of DV as having a problem with trolls exists because we just give people a little more room to say what they feel like than some LD4All members are evidentally comfortable with. There is an interesting range of opinions here on many topics, and I cherish that, even if it does lead to some heated debates, because that really is the best way to clarify and sharpen your own views.

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Originally Posted by Erii

And then there was Mayflow....

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God. Mayflow.

Mods and admins seem to get all the heat around here... What exactly is it, though?

In regards to the OP, I personally don't find nina rude at all, she's just opinionated as with I and many other people. I remember that thread; there have been many other times when mods did something similar to that. And besides, if a normal member were to do it, they don't get blasted in the same manner as the mods, who should be just as allowed to voice their opinions as the rest of us.

I've been following a few people who left Dreamviews over time and they consistently whine about how "staff is corrupt". Unfortunately for them, I haven't seen a case where the mods stepped too out of line. Sure, there may be a slip-up here and there, but they're human, not unsympathetic creeps.

I've had my fair share of bitching and moaning, but I haven't been banned. It's only those who troll consistently or such - philosopher stuck around for a long time because people enjoyed some of his points, but they were so shrouded in nonsense that it was impossible for him to keep posting.

Same with Loaf, who (honestly) I am so glad is gone. He is on his own little forum and blog, constantly posting rude things about DV in order to 'up' his site, including this little nugget about me...

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It just goes to show that once you remove a DV staff member like Puffin from the sanctuary of DV, they are revealed as babbling idiots.

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It's not like people are being banned left and right, and there are no conspiracies. This whole thing about DV being "corrupt" just got blown out of proportion, who knows why.

As for the community in general, I have no idea where that came from. We seem friendlier and more diverse than any other LDing group out there, and we also seem more open to ideas and look like more of a "science" based site than LD4all (among others).

To be fair, nina can be pretty mean. Certainly not my favourite of the staff.

wild edit: but she has gotten nicer over the years as well.

I see that Loaf has responded to the ld4all thread since this thread started.
On a side-note, I really dislike the layout of their forum. The posting space is confined to the middle and is too narrow. I think that would get annoying.

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Originally Posted by Marvo

To be fair, nina can be pretty mean. Certainly not my favourite of the staff.

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I find she's usually quite sensible and her actions are usually reasonable. There are a few exceptions.... I admit there have been cases in which she's closed a thread or moved it to SB when it wasn't necessary, in my opinion.

I am a bit annoyed that DreamBliss decided to put such emphasis on the fact that she's a female mod, and mentions that she acts like no female he's ever met or would ever like to meet. The emphasis on her gender brings to the surface a bias which I suspect others are afflicted with when it comes to judging nina in particular. Females are not expected to act as assertive as she does, and because of this, I doubt that there would be as many negative judgements toward her if she were male. I don't think it's a huge issue, and I could be wrong, it's just an idea I've decided to share.

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Originally Posted by Supernova

There is an interesting range of opinions here on many topics, and I cherish that, even if it does lead to some heated debates, because that really is the best way to clarify and sharpen your own views.

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I agree. DV attracts many interesting people. I admit I'm not fond of everyone, but it keeps things interesting and human. If the moderation were too strict, if no one was allowed to argue and everyone put on a superficial 'nice' mask all the time, as it seems they do at ld4all to some extent (from the little I've read), I would not find it very enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by khh

And Deep Dreaming, which you need to be mod approved to get access to. A place without sceptics.

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That sounds fun.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/__zoKJ77EvEc/TZ...se3%5B2%5D.jpg

I, personally don't see any truth in posts talking about corruption on this site. I'm drawn here by the exact opposite - by friendlines, willingness to help and by wast knowledge of members and mods about everything related to LDing. I just felt I have to say that to counter-balance the negative stuff.

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Originally Posted by Dianeva

I am a bit annoyed that DreamBliss decided to put such emphasis on the fact that she's a female mod, and mentions that she acts like no female he's ever met or would ever like to meet. The emphasis on her gender brings to the surface a bias which I suspect others are afflicted with when it comes to judging nina in particular. Females are not expected to act as assertive as she does, and because of this, I doubt that there would be as many negative judgements toward her if she were male. I don't think it's a huge issue, and I could be wrong, it's just an idea I've decided to share.

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I think you might be right. I was getting that impression, too.

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Originally Posted by Dianeva

I agree. DV attracts many interesting people. I admit I'm not fond of everyone, but it keeps things interesting and human. If the moderation were too strict, if no one was allowed to argue and everyone put on a superficial 'nice' mask all the time, as it seems they do at ld4all to some extent (from the little I've read), I would not find it very enjoyable.

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I found myself wondering if maybe that is the case at LD4All. There aren't really many things that bug me more than the superficial 'nice' mask as you so aptly put it. There's some people in the DV community, both past and present, that I can say I'm not a fan of, but that I'm glad are here because of the views they bring. The quality of discussion and thought that I find here is unmatched in any other part of my life.

Also, I'd like to throw in my two cents and say that I can't think of a time that I observed Nina doing anything seriously objectionable. I think she does as good a job as anyone could ask.

I agree with this thread. Enough said by me.

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Originally Posted by Dianeva

I am a bit annoyed that DreamBliss decided to put such emphasis on the fact that she's a female mod, and mentions that she acts like no female he's ever met or would ever like to meet. The emphasis on her gender brings to the surface a bias which I suspect others are afflicted with when it comes to judging nina in particular. Females are not expected to act as assertive as she does, and because of this, I doubt that there would be as many negative judgements toward her if she were male. I don't think it's a huge issue, and I could be wrong, it's just an idea I've decided to share.

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You are completely right about this.

I have been hoping we'd get some additional female moderators for awhile now, because it's glaringly obvious at least to me, that some people are just unable to accept or respect women in positions of authority, especially online, which is like...man's domain...lol.

...and I don't want to have to be the only one always getting called the bitch. But I also wouldn't claim that the only reason I may be labeled as "bitchy" is due to me being a female moderator. There's plenty about my personality in general that might lead others to think such things. I always speak my mind, often times not bothering to censor my thoughts or sugar coat my words to make them more palatable. I have gotten much better in responding to people that break rules, upset/annoy me, or try to attack me personally. I used to just post a response when I was still all emotional about it...but now if someone, for example, if a newish member here starts campaigning to have me thrown out as a mod...I just close the laptop and remember it's not the end of the world. I take a few minutes, hours, whatever you need...to calm down and let go of any emotional attachment.

Online, a lot of times I unintentionally offend people. For me, being on DV is freedom, because I can be myself completely, and you either love me or you hate me. Also the fact that out of every current DG, MOD, ADMIN, and even 2 of 3 of the Owners....I have been on staff here the longest. So clearly, I must be doing something right. So it is upsetting to read what DreamBliss wrote in a really rude PM to me that he was going to report me and contact the owner and file an official complaint and have him remove me from staff (b/c I moved his thread to SB lol). The best part? The very next day he sends me another long PM apologizing to me for how he handled things, and that he will not try to have me taken off staff etc. etc. And I have to deal with that sort of thing quite often, so it does become tiresome, and is enough to make anyone a little moody/irritated. So I do get moody/bitchy sometimes online, because people get shiity with me when I'm just trying to do my job. IRL I'm way more nonchalant and aloof, and prefer to obviate any conflict wherever I can.

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Originally Posted by Supernova

Also, I'd like to throw in my two cents and say that I can't think of a time that I observed Nina doing anything seriously objectionable. I think she does as good a job as anyone could ask.

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I appreciate that. :zocks:

I joined LD4All a while back, and found navigation to be a pain the ass and the discussion stale. In terms of web design they're stuck in the 90s, in terms of their thinking on dreams they're stuck in the 70s.

Everyone who matters thinks you're awesome, Nina :)

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Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

...in terms of their thinking on dreams they're stuck in the 70s.

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Ouch. XD

DreamBliss just sounds like a bit of a twit to be honest.

Doesn't matter LD4ALL is dead.

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Originally Posted by nina

Online, a lot of times I unintentionally offend people. For me, being on DV is freedom, because I can be myself completely, and you either love me or you hate me.

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Yeahhh, this only works if you're you. If you're somebody else, you be yourself completely, and then you threaten to ban them for doing things which are totally benign and non infractable (like posting absurd humour) because of your personal dislike.

I don't let it faze me or change my posting style, but of late there has been a rather negative and oppressive atmosphere which I'd never seen here before, and it worries me that if I keep being who I am then I'll end up being thrown out of an awesome community when I know I didn't do anything wrong. If I'm trolling people or abusing people then point out the incriminating post and take the appropriate measures. If you can't, don't call me a troll in public and encourage other members to join a bandwagon as if that's acceptable behaviour.

But then as long as there are awesome people like the guy below who actually understand my posts and personality and will stick up for it (and the fact that there are many such people here is the whole reason I stick around), I'm not really so worried.

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Originally Posted by GavinGill

Why do people seem to think we have a problem with trolls on this board? I can't think of a single person here who actually goes out of their way to act like one. Sure we have a few members that like to put things rather bluntly (Xei, greenhavoc, etc) but they're merely voicing their honest opinions, not trolling.

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Although I feel kind of mad that I somehow ended up between the same pair of parentheses as greenhavoc, from whom I have literally never seen a coherent message, you get hugs. :hug:

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Originally Posted by Xei

rawr

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Hey, Xei, great to see you made it here :cheeky:

I actually had my face pressed up against the windows of the DV complex pretty much since it went down, I just wasn't able to change those files so that I could post, and I'm too technologically retarded to work out how to connect to IRC without a direct link to click on. I went into tinychat for a bit but that Link guy banned me because he thought I was Russian or something, hurr. :P

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Originally Posted by Xei

I actually had my face pressed up against the windows of the DV complex pretty much since it went down, I just wasn't able to change those files so that I could post, and I'm too technologically retarded to work out how to connect to IRC without a direct link to click on. I went into tinychat for a bit but that Link guy banned me because he thought I was Russian or something, hurr. :P

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Aaw... That's kinda sad actually.

Holy shit, Xei noticed me? Glory be to Allah!

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...iawoman_ap.jpg

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Originally Posted by Xei

I went into tinychat for a bit but that Link guy banned me because he thought I was Russian or something

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lol

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Originally Posted by Xei

I actually had my face pressed up against the windows of the DV complex pretty much since it went down, I just wasn't able to change those files so that I could post, and I'm too technologically retarded to work out how to connect to IRC without a direct link to click on. I went into tinychat for a bit but that Link guy banned me because he thought I was Russian or something, hurr. :P

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God damn it... we need some sort of DV backup plan / bomb shelter for if the site becomes unusable again. And have drills.

Wow, I wouldn't have thought this at all. DV is such a friendly place, part of the reason I stick around. Sure, I could've lurked and look at techniques and never even signed up and still got all the info I needed, but I wanted to be a part of the community because I liked how close everyone seemed. I've only been to LD4ALL once, other than today, so I can't say anything about them. Somehow I figured they were more of an ally, considering they are a lucid dreaming site as well. I haven't seen anyone around here say that our site is any better than theirs either.

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But not every forum needs to feel like family

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A mod said this? That's insulting.

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Originally Posted by Anthonyyy0

I haven't seen anyone around here say that our site is any better than theirs either.

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Well doesn't really need to be said out loud, does it :cheeky:

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Originally Posted by Dianeva

God damn it... we need some sort of DV backup plan / bomb shelter for if the site becomes unusable again. And have drills.

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TBH I've been thinking about this for a while now.

Really though, the funniest part of the whole LD4All thing is this: what the hell did DreamBliss expect with that valentine thread? :chuckle:

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Originally Posted by Supernova

As I write this, I just noticed that the thread was about 6 months, and DreamBliss revived it to complain.

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Originally Posted by Supernova

Really though, the funniest part of the whole LD4All thing is this: what the hell did DreamBliss expect with that valentine thread?

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:chuckle:

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Originally Posted by Supernova

Also, I can't help but wonder if maybe the conception of DV as having a problem with trolls exists because we just give people a little more room to say what they feel like than some LD4All members are evidentally comfortable with. There is an interesting range of opinions here on many topics, and I cherish that, even if it does lead to some heated debates, because that really is the best way to clarify and sharpen your own views.

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Agreed, I once made a couple posts on ld4all back before I got on dreamviews, and 2 or 3 out of about 5 of my posts were deleted for mentioning something about weed or drugs, even if I tried to be cryptic (I wasnt just talking about it, people were asking why there recall was bad etc. which I found stupid, I was helping out) Or members with hundreds of posts would overshadow mine with some clearly wrong views about sleep paralysis or something, it just felt like everyone would chip in there two cents and nothing more.

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Originally Posted by nina

DreamBliss wrote in a really rude PM to me that he was going to report me and contact the owner and file an official complaint and have him remove me from staff (b/c I moved his thread to SB lol).

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LOL.

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Originally Posted by Dianeva

God damn it... we need some sort of DV backup plan / bomb shelter for if the site becomes unusable again. And have drills.

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When I was on another forum we had this. It was called Ghost Planet, and anyone could join and it basically had no moderation, other than removing spam.

The point is, a backup, even just a basic site for simple communication and exchange of brief messages, could prove useful.

Perhaps a Twitter account to follow?

A simple Zetaboards forum as backup?

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Originally Posted by Xei

Although I feel kind of mad that I somehow ended up between the same pair of parentheses as greenhavoc, from whom I have literally never seen a coherent message, you get hugs. :hug:

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I agree. There is a difference between posting things which are undoubtedly meant to be inflammatory (greenhavoc), and just being 'blunt' but meaning no offence (Xei).

Not trying to flame or anything but some people on LD4all just overall seem hypocritical, not all of them. It seems from experience if you want to debate the science of dreaming how rem cycles work ect you come here to dreamviews, which is way more clinical about it, outside of Beyond Dreaming. And there's nothing wrong with believes, it's just LD4all you get nothing but LD app LD app Self Hypnosis Self Hypnosis Spend Cash now no matter what forum section you go to. Sure that happens on any forum for ld's but you get more there. 2nd on Hypocritical, people on ld4all have in the past ganged up and stated many times how poorly they were treated for their wonky believes (nothing wrong with that, really). Yet the site they say is so much more open also has a separate beyond dreaming section. This person did not even use beyond dreaming, they were asking for it, since most of the site is dedicated to a scientific brain function. And they asked an unprovable un scientific question.

On a side note
"If you haven't made friends with the atleast some of the many Mods after you join, and someone labels you a troll, or you say anything they don't like, even non-insulting, they have a variety of ways to make your stay there, frustrating, degrading, and if it leads to a banning, then the humiliation doesn't end there."

What a puss filled pile of lies. I have said plenty of thing people don't like, I have stated how I felt they let us down during the security issues in 2012 I'm sure they loved that, but you know what they agreed with me, I was NOT ATTACKED for saying how the hell did you let Russia in here? I was told how to get to an alternative version through a notepad hack. I have never before been told how to hack a hacked site's code trough notepad, but Dremviews mod's did. Guy makes it like a flame war. It's just Lucid Dreams. I have never seen one person do any of those claims by this ld4all member. The one guy was basically flame stalking Mods and was banned because he was seriously creepy. He even stalked me to my Web Of Trust profile, he created it just to stalk my profile because he knew who I was, and that I was a member of Dreamviews. He didn't even use his WOT profile for anything other than stalking me. He was obsessed with the mod Nina like she had some master scheme, he was a vulture he was the true troll. "The lady MOD" had a right to be upset that he was basically staking her profile.

Ok, closed because this is not a LD4ALL bashing place.
Kept open, coz nice things about mods.
Closed coz 3 years old thread. And it's getting kinda personal about that one member or whatnut.