Thread: 365 days w/o Jerking Off: A self control challenge

^^ That's true actually, I didn't think about that. Because it's dopamine that gets released on the way up (the actual masturbating), and prolactin on the way down (orgasm). The prolactin likely induces some chemical changes as well, but probably not as significant as dopamine.

Actually, considering that prolactin has a dopamine-balancing effect, masturbating without orgasming may actually be hurting your progress.

To put this simply: don't touch

Originally Posted by RemoteVicinity

I've done some research on this. The dopamine blast doesn't come specifically when you reach climax, it comes when you're being sexually aroused. So it's not the ejaculation that messes it all up, it's the fact that you're hyperstimulating your brain by causing big blasts of dopamine by masturbating (to porn/fantasy), which in the long run makes the brain adapt to this behaviour by reducing the amount of dopamine receptors in your brain. Thus, you won't be as aroused after masturbating for some time as you were the first time you masturbated, and you will need to escalate in terms of porn material. So if you were to edge to porn i.e. fap without reaching orgasm every day whilst doing this challenge it wouldn't have any effect at all, your brain would be just as messed up after you'd finished.

It might be that I misunderstood your statement, if so, please tell me

Edit: and btw, I'm not saying that you, or anyone is surfing porn websites, just using it as an example. Basically I think if you get that dopamine rush, it doesn't matter whether you reach orgasm or not, it's just as bad for your brain.

So just thinking about sex would make us fail or what ? :O I don't
understand

Originally Posted by MtSaEt

So just thinking about sex would make us fail or what ? :O I don't
understand

In a sense yes, but not really. Yes, even just thinking about sex releases dopamine, but not nearly as much as actually masturbating (even without orgasming). It's negligible as far as the chemical changes go, all kinds of thoughts release dopamine.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

In a sense yes, but not really. Yes, even just thinking about sex releases dopamine, but not nearly as much as actually masturbating (even without orgasming). It's negligible as far as the chemical changes go, all kinds of thoughts release dopamine.

All kinds of thoughts release dopamine? Somehow that sounds dangerous. What if other thoughts release other chemicals? Would there be no use for certain medications for well disciplined individuals?

The drug industry would not be kosher with this. Lol.

Originally Posted by Kaomea

All kinds of thoughts release dopamine? Somehow that sounds dangerous. What if other thoughts release other chemicals? Would there be no use for certain medications for well disciplined individuals?

The drug industry would not be kosher with this. Lol.

Other thoughts do release other chemicals. The changes aren't as significant as those caused by medications, though. To reach the same level of effect it would take a lot of practice, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Lately norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors are being studied for their anti-ADHD qualities. So maybe someone who could keep themselves in a state of heightened adrenaline wouldn't need the drugs?

Lmao. Hrm. Maybe? I think this deserves a bit more thought before I proceed further.

Touche.

Originally Posted by RemoteVicinity

I've done some research on this. The dopamine blast doesn't come specifically when you reach climax, it comes when you're being sexually aroused. So it's not the ejaculation that messes it all up, it's the fact that you're hyperstimulating your brain by causing big blasts of dopamine by masturbating (to porn/fantasy), which in the long run makes the brain adapt to this behaviour by reducing the amount of dopamine receptors in your brain. Thus, you won't be as aroused after masturbating for some time as you were the first time you masturbated, and you will need to escalate in terms of porn material. So if you were to edge to porn i.e. fap without reaching orgasm every day whilst doing this challenge it wouldn't have any effect at all, your brain would be just as messed up after you'd finished.

It might be that I misunderstood your statement, if so, please tell me

Edit: and btw, I'm not saying that you, or anyone is surfing porn websites, just using it as an example. Basically I think if you get that dopamine rush, it doesn't matter whether you reach orgasm or not, it's just as bad for your brain.

That's understandable. But put it this way. I've never been erect looking at such sites since abstinence ('cept once). I'm not masturbating. I simply mean the arousal you feel when looking at an attractive woman go by (or on a site). And well, it's certainly working for the results so far speak for themselves.

Originally Posted by Kaomea

Lmao. Hrm. Maybe? I think this deserves a bit more thought before I proceed further.

Touche.

I say instead of theorizing, just try it. You'll know what works and doesn't from direct experiental feedback.

I needed some theory to start me off again, but so far now.... that doesn't matter for the experience speaks tons. Though keep in mind, I did do it excessively.

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

I say instead of theorizing, just try it. You'll know what works and doesn't from direct experiental feedback.

I needed some theory to start me off again, but so far now.... that doesn't matter for the experience speaks tons. Though keep in mind, I did do it excessively.

True, and agreed, sometimes jumping in and getting your feet wet is the way to go. Although given the depth of the leap, it might be useful to at least glance over the edge. Then again, for things regarding masturbation, I suppose that's one thing you can just go in with your eyes closed.

Originally Posted by Kaomea

True, and agreed, sometimes jumping in and getting your feet wet is the way to go. Although given the depth of the leap, it might be useful to at least glance over the edge. Then again, for things regarding masturbation, I suppose that's one thing you can just go in with your eyes closed.

Especially when jumping in doesn't include a risk of drowning. Maybe a list of negative effects from attempting this would be more useful - if there are none (only a month), then may as well give it a go.

So guys, what is the real the challenge ? Not masturbating (with orgasm) or not thinking about sex ?

Originally Posted by MtSaEt

So guys, what is the real the challenge ? Not masturbating (with orgasm) or not thinking about sex ?

Originally it's about no masturbation... but the conversation got further now

...and honestly, if you try to avoid thinking about sex, you'll just think more of it... lol.

Originally Posted by littlezoe

...and honestly, if you try to avoid thinking about sex, you'll just think more of it... lol.

That is hella true!

As Alyzarin said above, masturbation causes a high increase in prolactin, which occurs immediately in males, and slower over time in females at and after orgasm. Just some interesting stuff regarding dopamine/prolactin:


"There is a well-documented relationship between dopamine and prolactin; when one is unusually high the other is low, and vice versa. For example, schizophrenia is associated with high levels of dopamine. Some anti-psychotic drugs (designed to lower dopamine in schizophrenics) also raise prolactin levels. Schizophrenia patients treated with these drugs often complain of the same symptoms as others with high prolactin, such as low libido."

"Increased serum PRL (prolactin) levels correlated significantly with high scores on the Hamilton Depression Rating Scale (HDRS)."

"Prolactin also appears to be part of the mammalian repertoire of stress responses. It is more associated with anxiety and despair rather than fight or flight, as is cortisol."


This explains why I feel so calm (in a stable sense) since abstinence. By not masturbating, I'm not critically raising prolactin levels, and so am not receiving the negative effects of said chemical.


Symptoms of excess prolactin (over-masturbation) [Strange that testosterone increases in females from excessive masturbation].


And symptoms of varying levels of dopamine (usually high prolactin = low dopamine, and vice versa).


I definitely fit into the deficient category more than any other one. But I can say already after 9 days that the antisocial aspect has been reduced considerably.

These charts really do underline that I was receiving the negative effects of high prolactin and low dopamine.

Furthermore, with regards to dopamine. After orgasm, dopamine is depleted as it is converted into adrenaline and noradrenaline, ergo the excessive dopamine-norepinephrine-epinephrine conversion. So not only is dopamine post-synaptic sensitivity reduced from many bouts of hyper-arousal before orgasm, but the neurotransmitter itself is reduced in its availability after orgasm. Crazy reduction overall. So, as Spyguy said:

Originally Posted by Spyguy

To put this simply: don't touch

Originally Posted by MtSaEt

So just thinking about sex would make us fail or what ? :O I don't
understand

Yeah, what Alyzarin says is true, but what's important for you is that you don't arouse yourself by bringing up memories of porn or fantasising about porn or other intense sexual stuff. A principle can be that all "natural" sexual stimuli is alright, such as seeing an attractive girl (or guy), just don't use images and fantasy to stimulate yourself. Of course pictures can appear in your head unwillingly, if that happens just try to let them fade away and don't beat yourself up if it happens a lot, if you just don't pay much attention to them, they will eventually disappear.

This reminds me of /r/nofap -- I'd definitely recommend for everyone to try it, you don't realise how much masturbation changes you until you stop.

Not sure if this has been posted as I've only skimmed this thread, but I'd definitely recommend watching this for anyone who hasn't seen it: Your Brain On Porn: Porn Addiction (Part 1) - YouTube

Originally Posted by RemoteVicinity

Yeah, what Alyzarin says is true, but what's important for you is that you don't arouse yourself by bringing up memories of porn or fantasising about porn or other intense sexual stuff. A principle can be that all "natural" sexual stimuli is alright, such as seeing an attractive girl (or guy), just don't use images and fantasy to stimulate yourself. Of course pictures can appear in your head unwillingly, if that happens just try to let them fade away and don't beat yourself up if it happens a lot, if you just don't pay much attention to them, they will eventually disappear.

Rereading my response to your previous post about the dopamine blast, I apologise if I came across a bit standoffish and snappy.

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

That's understandable. But put it this way. I've never been erect looking at such sites since abstinence ('cept once). I'm not masturbating. I simply mean the arousal you feel when looking at an attractive woman go by (or on a site). And well, it's certainly working for the results so far speak for themselves.

Again, I may have gotten this wrong, but if you mean that you're looking at sites with hot women to get aroused (although not to masturbate or even touch your penis), you should lay off. I guess it doesn't hurt that much if you're just doing it for a minute every other day, but the results will come faster if you don't. Looking at real women is of course fine as I said in my last post.

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

Rereading my response to your previous post about the dopamine blast, I apologise if I came across a bit standoffish and snappy.

Oh, it's cool, tbh I didn't get that impression at all you can probably ignore my previous post then, if you understood what I meant concerning the dopamine.

Originally Posted by RareCola

This reminds me of /r/nofap -- I'd definitely recommend for everyone to try it, you don't realise how much masturbation changes you until you stop.

Not sure if this has been posted as I've only skimmed this thread, but I'd definitely recommend watching this for anyone who hasn't seen it: Your Brain On Porn: Porn Addiction (Part 1) - YouTube

Yeah, that's basically what it is
and that's the videos I learned about the dopamine, I also highly recommend watching them!

Today I was sitting on a bus, at the back.... directly above the rumbling Volvo engine. Didn't help that England today is 26° Celcius (v.hot for here), and there was an attractive woman in view. That was dodgy - had to move. Surprising how much I'm sexually sensitive now.

These "dopamine-norepinephrine-epinephrine" and similar parts of your post make my head hurt, Wolfwood ;D

But it's an interesting read nonetheless

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

Today I was sitting on a bus, at the back.... directly above the rumbling Volvo engine. Didn't help that England today is 26C Celcius (v.hot for here), and there was an attractive woman in view. That was dodgy - had to move. Surprising how much I'm sexually sensitive now.

Imagining a sweating Wolfwood with a nervous smile on his face all of a sudden rise up to find another seat at the bus

Congrats on having become more sensitive!