Thread: Anonymous - The Plan

Yup

The whole solar issue is a huge tangent so I won't go too much into it, but the issue is not that they just don't want to do it. The technology to build thousands of solar panels in the desert exists but the infrastructure isn't there to carry the load. Billions of dollars would have to be invested in new lines and power stations to carry it all out of the desert.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

^ If the above post is serious then you're an idiot.

There's only so much "fuck them" and "raise taxes" you can do as a leader before heads start rolling...

Yeah it's always good to disreagard people's entire argument based on one thing they've said.

In THIS UNIVERSE: You can't argue my logic and you're looking for a way out.

Xaq - As I said, at least in Aus it has been planned out how we could do it.
Solar panels don't HAVE to go in the desert you know. Plus there are deserts close to towns. And if there's not, there's almost certainly going to be sunny places still.
Otherwise wind or wave power.

Originally Posted by tommo

Yeah it's always good to disreagard people's entire argument based on one thing they've said.

In THIS UNIVERSE: You can't argue my logic and you're looking for a way out.

Tommo be serious, where would your government find the money? Raise taxes? Do you think people like that? Do you think people can afford it?

Tens of thousands of jobs lost because of you and you say "fuck them". Is that the attitude of a nation's leader? Oh and it's a shame that they lost their jobs, because they were paying taxes back then instead of costing you money through unemployment benefits. The companies you bankrupted were also paying taxes.

40% is "enough in your books"? You should make that your campaign slogan , not even going to ask where you got that number. Let me give you a quick lesson... In mathematics, a majority is 50% + 1, in politics it's 2/3.

You don't care about international relations? That's sure working out for North Korea.

Make lavish campaigns illegal? Hello, freedom of speech? What next, make elections illegal?

You seem completely incapable of thinking more than a hair's width ahead of your actions. Luckily for you, the guillotine is out of vogue.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Tommo be serious, where would your government find the money? Raise taxes? Do you think people like that? Do you think people can afford it?

Of course they can. Especially with bullshit drugs laws gone, which cost many many billions of dollars per year.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Tens of thousands of jobs lost because of you and you say "fuck them". Is that the attitude of a nation's leader? Oh and it's a shame that they lost their jobs, because they were paying taxes back then instead of costing you money through unemployment benefits. The companies you bankrupted were also paying taxes.

It was half tongue in cheek. I think a lot fo our problems are caused by not wanting to lose jobs. It's just stupid. What a way to hinder progress. Most of the people that work there are just shoveling coal in to a furnace. They can easily find another job. One that isn't going to kill them with radiation mind you.

The few engineers that work there can work at the solar plants.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

40% is "enough in your books"? You should make that your campaign slogan , not even going to ask where you got that number. Let me give you a quick lesson... In mathematics, a majority is 50% + 1, in politics it's 2/3.

No. I said that it is enough, and I can convince a large majority through giving them proper information.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

You don't care about international relations? That's sure working out for North Korea.

In this scenario. As I said, they're not gonna declare war over drug legalisation.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Make lavish campaigns illegal? Hello, freedom of speech? What next, make elections illegal?

It's not freedom of speech. It's billions of wasted dollars on lies. Nothing they say is true. Politicians should not be allowed to blatantly lie. That's not suppression of speech.
Politics should be science based. It should be illegal for them to use emotion to sway the suggestible in our society.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

You seem completely incapable of thinking more than a hair's width ahead of your actions. Luckily for you, the guillotine is out of vogue.

I've thought it through. I just can't explain it all in one post. You asked questions, I answered them.

Well at least you're not in charge. Hopefully that has been a lesson for EVERYBODY ELSE in how hard it is to run a country...

Cool rebuttal bro.

I can't think of a more basic way to point out the silliness of your post. You think that people can just "get jobs", that international relations boil down to whether the other country is at war with you or not and that making it illegal for a politician to go on a bus tour and put some ads on the radio is not against freedom of speech.

I won't waste my time debating that 2 + 2 = 5, it's not like anyone else in here is agreeing with you anyways...

Originally Posted by tommo

Since when? They are extremely cost effective. Especially the new solar FARMS, which have mirrors around in a circle which reflect the sun on to a giant tower. After it's built, you have maintenance costs, which are minimal. The rest is profit. If that's not cost effective I don't know what is.

Since power lines cost money, logistics are difficult, and solar panels are not cheap at all, which require many years of use to cover the cost of panels, then you have to pay labor charges for maintenance and distribution.

Why would I want to?
I would regulate drugs like MDMA and Heroin and Cocaine. Pharmaceutical grade chemicals. Dosage information, real health information etc. on the package.
Street manufacturers can't compete with that.

You mean all the drugs that are ALREADY sold without the knowledge of goverment? If the vicious campaign on the war on drugs can't even find half the drugs, legalizing would be impossible to regulate.

Street competitors CAN compete with that. They already know the effects. How do you think your government-issued drugs are going to be better than street drugs? Marijuana is just one ingredient, meth wouldn't work without the poisons, and the most you can do really is offer higher-quality cocaine.. which would cost more.

50%???? No.
People who make enough money SHOULD be paying more taxes.
Government healthcare works in every country it is implemented in.
Including my country.
You Americans have just been so completely brainwashed it's not funny.
The republicans literally fucked you all over for their own personal gain.
They lied through their teeth and most of you believed them.
How could it possibly "complicate the process of private industry"?

I'm sorry, 47 percent. In America. People who make enough money should pay more? I doubt you considered that the top few percent pay the majority of taxes. The tax system gives a higher percentage the more you make.. you don't just pay a bigger sum, you pay a higher percentage.

You're getting almost free electricity. As I explained to jarrhead.

No, you're not. Solar panels are incredibly expensive, as well as the labor to build and plan, and the distribution is hell is implement too.

It would cost like a few dollars a year per person.

No. It would still be the same. Unless you plan on shutting down the existing companies and making it 100% government run? Fuck them?

I couldn't give a fuck. Redundant jobs are redundant jobs.

Jobs are jobs. Jobs are taxes. Taxes are your ability to get shit done. Jobs are caring for the family. Jobs ARE YOUR CONSTITUENTS.

Actually, yes. Depending on what you call enough. 40% is enough in my books.

So you obviously have no clue how politics works. It's 2/3 for politics. 40% isn't even a majority, let alone a political majority.

You really can't seriously be asking that.... Tell them to go fight real crime.

You mean killing dozens of people every day over drugs?

I don't care about international relations either.

I would be in a party where the rest of them agree with me.

Okay, I do believe for the most part we were talking about Anonymous IN AMERICA.. so, you know, the government here is multi-party.. You can't just have guys who agree.

Lavish campaigns would be illegal too. It's ridiculous. Millions, billions in America, spent on bullshit lies and propaganda.
Every level.

This is infringing on our first amendment.

Pay for it with taxes, null question, fuck them, yes.

and just how much tax money do you have? They already are in the negatives.. where do you get the money for more? Unless you just wanna spend money that doesn't exist.. a big problem with our current leaders.

Private health insurance companies still exist here, you know? Because people want better health care.

And where would you go for this care? Is there a magical skip to the front of the line feature?

So they pay more for it. IF THEY CAN AFFORD IT.

Wrong. They still pay more because IT COSTS TAX MONEY, THEN THE INSURANCE MONEY.



==========

I'd also like to point out that raising taxes has never worked. Why? Because they NEVER USE THE EXTRA REVENUE FOR WHAT IT WAS INTENDED FOR. They always seem to say "Well, we make an extra X amount, we can just spend it on this.." then are like "well... we don't have enough money for that thing we raised taxes for. Let's raise em again."


You think you won't do that? Even if you don't... well, your election chance is looking pretty slim so far. The guy who does get elected will have the same problem every politician has.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

You mean all the drugs that are ALREADY sold without the knowledge of goverment? If the vicious campaign on the war on drugs can't even find half the drugs, legalizing would be impossible to regulate.

This makes no sense. It would be sold in a shop, made by chemists. How is that not regulated?

Originally Posted by jarrhead

Street competitors CAN compete with that. They already know the effects. How do you think your government-issued drugs are going to be better than street drugs? Marijuana is just one ingredient, meth wouldn't work without the poisons, and the most you can do really is offer higher-quality cocaine.. which would cost more.

No lol
What do you mean they already know the effects?
How? Well, for one, someone with knowledge of chemistry makes them. Rather than some monkey following a recipe, skimping as much as possible.
Meth wouldn't work.... without the poisons....
Um, *TERRIFICALLY GIANT FACEPALM*

Quality is the entire point. All drugs would be of a higher purity and quality. Therefore, they would be less dangerous. And no it wouldn't cost more.

Drug dealers make more profit than any other profession. Because they markup their prices an incredible amount, due to risk probably, and no REGULATION of the industry.

Cannabis could be sold for 50 bucks an ounce rather than the 400 average now.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

I'm sorry, 47 percent. In America. People who make enough money should pay more? I doubt you considered that the top few percent pay the majority of taxes. The tax system gives a higher percentage the more you make.. you don't just pay a bigger sum, you pay a higher percentage.

Ok, your country's just weird. Everyone should pay tax. As long as they're making money. It should be more the more you earn though.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

No, you're not. Solar panels are incredibly expensive, as well as the labor to build and plan, and the distribution is hell is implement too.

Distribution is power lines. They are already there.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

Jobs are jobs. Jobs are taxes. Taxes are your ability to get shit done. Jobs are caring for the family. Jobs ARE YOUR CONSTITUENTS.

Already said, there are plenty of jobs already for labourers.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

So you obviously have no clue how politics works. It's 2/3 for politics. 40% isn't even a majority, let alone a political majority.

Already explained.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

You mean killing dozens of people every day over drugs?

?

Originally Posted by jarrhead

Okay, I do believe for the most part we were talking about Anonymous IN AMERICA.. so, you know, the government here is multi-party.. You can't just have guys who agree.

If your party agrees, you're okay. Coz you're the ones in power.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

and just how much tax money do you have? They already are in the negatives.. where do you get the money for more? Unless you just wanna spend money that doesn't exist.. a big problem with our current leaders.

There's more than enough tax money.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

I'd also like to point out that raising taxes has never worked. Why? Because they NEVER USE THE EXTRA REVENUE FOR WHAT IT WAS INTENDED FOR. They always seem to say "Well, we make an extra X amount, we can just spend it on this.." then are like "well... we don't have enough money for that thing we raised taxes for. Let's raise em again."


You think you won't do that? Even if you don't... well, your election chance is looking pretty slim so far. The guy who does get elected will have the same problem every politician has.

And this is one of the reasons why I say that.
The governments are spending BILLIONS, America - trillions, on bullshit.
With the right priorities, we could be living in a world where we don't have to wait 50 years to get something done.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

And where would you go for this care? Is there a magical skip to the front of the line feature?

Wrong. They still pay more because IT COSTS TAX MONEY, THEN THE INSURANCE MONEY.

What.... on earth are you talking about?
People who get better healthcare buy private insurance.
This is why your country failed with comprehending it. Coz you don't even bother to look at another country which has implemented public healthcare.

Interesting that neither of you can counter my points.

You aren't grabbing what we're saying when we comment, and responding about a, though similar, but not the same topic.

We were also talking about anonymous IN AMERICA. You are speaking of everything from an Australian situation and it's nullifying everything we said, because it pertains TO THE US.

There's only so much countering to be done before one gives up.

AS to answer your question mark.. Dozens of people are murdered every day over drugs, if not hundreds. Drugs may not be a real crime to you, but do you consider murder a real crime? Drugs are provoking many murders.

Originally Posted by tommo

Interesting that neither of you can counter my points.

Interesting how everybody is telling you that you make no fucking sense .

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Interesting how everybody is telling you that you make no fucking sense .

Two people does not an everybody make.

Also jarrhead I tried to pertain some of my answers to America to. Although I don't really think I had to. Coz all I said is I could lead a country better than any politician in my lifetime.

Even though my ideas aren't completely thought through to the dot, that's what the rest of the government people are there for, to figure out how things would be implemented.

Drugs are not causing murders. Drugs being illegal is causing murders.
No one's killing over cigarettes or alcohol.
Some people do kill because alcohol lowers inhibitions. But that's a different problem entirely.
Most of the drug deaths would be over gang territory etc.
Whereas companies settle their disputes in a court room.

I don't think there would be a single person on Earth who would kill someone for even an addictive drug like Heroin, if they could go down to a shop/pharmacy and buy a month's supply for a few dollars.

Originally Posted by tommo

I don't think there would be a single person on Earth who would kill someone for even an addictive drug like Heroin, if they could go down to a shop/pharmacy and buy a month's supply for a few dollars.

You raise an interesting point. Though I doubt you could make a month's supply a few dollars.

Originally Posted by tommo

Two people does not an everybody make.

Also jarrhead I tried to pertain some of my answers to America to. Although I don't really think I had to. Coz all I said is I could lead a country better than any politician in my lifetime.

Even though my ideas aren't completely thought through to the dot, that's what the rest of the government people are there for, to figure out how things would be implemented.

Drugs are not causing murders. Drugs being illegal is causing murders.
No one's killing over cigarettes or alcohol.
Some people do kill because alcohol lowers inhibitions. But that's a different problem entirely.
Most of the drug deaths would be over gang territory etc.
Whereas companies settle their disputes in a court room.

I don't think there would be a single person on Earth who would kill someone for even an addictive drug like Heroin, if they could go down to a shop/pharmacy and buy a month's supply for a few dollars.

You forgot Xaq; that's 3, which is infinitely more than the 0 that have supported you. I was also talking about a hypothetical Western country, no specific one.

Have you ever thought about the ethics of legalizing and selling hard drugs? You think cigarettes get a bad rap, imagine heroin... What company would want to sell a product that is so harmful and addictive? Who would invest in that?

Originally Posted by jarrhead

You raise an interesting point. Though I doubt you could make a month's supply a few dollars.

Well, it's true. It costs about as much as a bag of sugar to produce. It's just sold on the street for like 4000 times that amount.

You forgot Xaq; that's 3, which is infinitely more than the 0 that have supported you. I was also talking about a hypothetical Western country, no specific one.

Have you ever thought about the ethics of legalizing and selling hard drugs? You think cigarettes get a bad rap, imagine heroin... What company would want to sell a product that is so harmful and addictive? Who would invest in that?

No, that's 3 times as many. I support one side, you 3 support the other.

Heroin isn't harmful. Just incredibly addictive. Anyone in their right mind would invest in that lol
Besides, tobacco use has been reduced because there is actually REAL information about it and campaigns which don't lie out their arse. Whereas other drug use levels have never fallen, anywhere. They have risen consistently. Except in the places where they are legal/tolerated/not subject to bullshit propaganda and criminal penalties.

Also spart, its extremely disingenuous to claim that anyone that has taken issue with any part of someone's post who you are arguing against is agreeing with you. Nothing you are posting about has anything to do with solar panels, which is the only thing I addressed.

Originally Posted by tommo

Heroin isn't harmful. Just incredibly addictive. Anyone in their right mind would invest in that lol

Wow dude, with comments like these it's like I don't even have to say anything.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Also spart, its extremely disingenuous to claim that anyone that has taken issue with any part of someone's post who you are arguing against is agreeing with you. Nothing you are posting about has anything to do with solar panels, which is the only thing I addressed.

I didn't say you were agreeing with me, only that you took issue with tommo's ideas, although it may have been a smaller part yes. Care to back up anything he says?

ohaigais, heroin is perfectly safe.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

ohaigais, heroin is perfectly safe.

^strawman.

Legal Heroin is called Morphine, and is prescribed by doctors all over the planet.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

^strawman.

Legal Heroin is called Morphine, and is prescribed by doctors all over the planet.

Morphine /=/ what he's probably thinking of as heroin.
Morphine can easily be overdosed to death as well. I think the stupidity of the general population to kill themselves on hard drugs (even legalized) is way too inevitable. Legalizing morphine is like legalizing oxicotton.