Thread: Rant and Rave, Cry and Complain

Sprain hand. Glad that my hand is feeling a little better after a week of an air cast on it. It's healing. And driving me nuts.

Originally Posted by Caradon

I once made a post stating that I wished I had some bumper stickers that say. "I'd Rather Be Lucid Dreaming" Someone on Dream Views made it happen. I still have them. The proof is my current avatar. I'm still amazed that even happened. The top right of the sticker says "dreamviews.com

That's really cool!

Got in a bit of a disagreement with my boss today (ese boss, not my principal). She has an idea of how she wants us to write IEPs, but it's not the way they are written (and it will cause problems). I tried to express this to her, but she insisted I was wrong. I asked if she would double check, and she snapped at me. See, the problem is, they put people in this position without having been an ESE teacher first. Sure, she's got a doctorate, that's great, but this is her first year as a coordinator, and she was a general education teacher before that. So, yeah, I wish she would listen to us. Not the first issue like this I've had with her. It's frustrating, though. I try to tell her how it works, but get shot down. Then, we have to "play" by her rules for a while, until everything gets funked up, and then suddenly she changes things. I wish she would trust us. It's not like we haven't been doing this for years.

Originally Posted by sivason

WOW!!! What the hell happened here? Daniel Love is more than welcome here. If the owners minded the linking they would deal with it. The relationship between them has been mutually beneficial to my understanding. It seems like at least three of you were casting bad vibes on him for making a thread, something I wish more people would do (make threads).
Eonnn, I think your claim about the DMT device would need a link to some sort of article to be considered much. In this case you did come across as claiming knowledge in a subject that needs some sort of supportive info. That is ok. I have no problem that you bring it up, but am just trying to break down what happened here.
Daniel Love, Thanks for posting a new thread, sorry I did not realize what was going on to derail it. To clarify, Beyond Dreaming is there for topics that are in the mystic/ new age catagory, but members can certainly bring up such topics in other threads IF it is not off-topic. Eonnn was talking about some sort of dream device and then responding to related comments, so I am not calling those off topic. What was off topic and not ok was all the stuff about spamming directed at you. I assume that is the source of your aggressive responses, not so much the fact that it got kind of far from science.
MoonageDreamer, your comments were off-topic and should have been conducted by PMing DanielLove. Please try to keep that in mind in the future.
I am moving the posts about spamming out of Daniel's thread to the lounge. https://www.dreamviews.com/senseless...ml#post2240690

Ouch. So I'm crying. Not sure what I did wrong, except point out what I feel needed to be said. And I did so respectfully.

Not really feeling these forums right now.

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Ouch. So I'm crying. Not sure what I did wrong, except point out what I feel needed to be said. And I did so respectfully.

Not really feeling these forums right now.

For what it's worth, I respect you for saying what you said. It's just, for those of us who don't know Daniel Love's past account, he's only the guy that post links to his things and I also don't click on them for same reasons as you, MoonageDaydream. For example, in our Book Club, we read Sageous' book, because we know him on this forum and I was highly motivated to see his work (and even then, he only subliminally advertised it if at all). Same as if you had some published project out there, I'd be highly motivated to see it. But I don't know Daniel Love so I'm not clicking. But those who know him will obviously defend him, and rightly so, especially since his links have been approved so what he's doing is fine. It's just not reaching us. And you told him what's missing and he got a chance to explain himself. If you hadn't spoken up, my opinion about him would not have had a chance to improve because now I learned a bit of context.

So, anyway, thank you for being here

Originally Posted by Occipitalred

For what it's worth, I respect you for saying what you said. It's just, for those of us who don't know Daniel Love's past account, he's only the guy that post links to his things and I also don't click on them for same reasons as you, MoonageDaydream. For example, in our Book Club, we read Sageous' book, because we know him on this forum and I was highly motivated to see his work (and even then, he only subliminally advertised it if at all). Same as if you had some published project out there, I'd be highly motivated to see it. But I don't know Daniel Love so I'm not clicking. But those who know him will obviously defend him, and rightly so, especially since his links have been approved so what he's doing is fine. It's just not reaching us. And you told him what's missing and he got a chance to explain himself. If you hadn't spoken up, my opinion about him would not have had a chance to improve because now I learned a bit of context.

So, anyway, thank you for being here

I appreciate your words, Occipitalred. It's so helpful to know I have some friends here. I am sensitive, I know that. Thanks for being understanding.

Yes, that's why I voted for Sageous' book in the club, too. I really love how humble he is about it all. He never promotes himself, and I respect that so much. I am enjoying his book, and look forward to reading his others.

I am just not a fan of spamming, or too much self-promotion. I mean, if we have a special section for it, I'd be okay with it. But as it is, I don't like it. But that's just me.

I understand you are upset. What made you feel this way, in the first place?

Wait a minute! I'm the one who suggested Daniel Love book for you guys to read. NOT HIM!! We voted on it. Do you guys remember? HERE: https://www.dreamviews.com/general-l...ml#post2238228
I thought it would help to read different kinds of books, you know? People didn't want to read it, that's fine to me. I'll live. I can do that on my own. What links do you guys really have a problem with?
There is no rule saying that people can't post links from you tube.

However, it's probably not a great idea to just jump into a thread just to derail it just to drive a point you don't like someone. Even I'm guilty of that. I think it is stated in the rules. I mean if we have an issue, a mod or an admin are really here to help. And then you can work through that thing you have problem together.

Originally Posted by sivason

What was off topic and not ok was all the stuff about spamming directed at you. I assume that is the source of your aggressive responses, not so much the fact that it got kind of far from science.

On the contrary. We would need to see what Daniel actually says on this before assuming anything. From my understanding Mr Love replied quite professionally in response to the spam accusations at the start of that thread. He dealt with the issue rather well. However, when the subject of "spirituality" cropped up he acted rather differently. He became all defensive and 'aggressive' as you quite rightly put it. Not only that, Mr Love was disrespectful towards Eonnn, MoonageDaydream and the forum in general.

Fair enough it's 'his' thread and he is welcome. However, that does not give the OP 'carte blanche' to treat people who actually contribute to the forum on a regular basis with contempt. (I don't include myself in that statement). The 'contribution' part here is an important one though. It is the one major point that MoonageDaydream stated (and I wholeheartedly agree with) where it is blindingly obvious where it seems to be 'all take and no give'.

The actual OP thread title in question reminded me of 'clickbait' I often see across the internet. Even so, I did give Daniel the benefit of the doubt by actually reading the article via the link. I tried to be honest in my critique, but I did note there was some misinformation and conjecture contained within it. I found the second [YouTube] link to be entirely self promotional with no reference to fighting 'misinformation', only subscription.

Originally Posted by HumbleDreamer

I understand you are upset. What made you feel this way, in the first place?

Wait a minute! I'm the one who suggested Daniel Love book for you guys to read. NOT HIM!! We voted on it. Do you guys remember? HERE: https://www.dreamviews.com/general-l...ml#post2238228
I thought it would help to read different kinds of books, you know? People didn't want to read it, that's fine to me. I'll live. I can do that on my own. What links do you guys really have a problem with?
There is no rule saying that people can't post links from you tube.

However, it's probably not a great idea to just jump into a thread just to derail it just to drive a point you don't like someone. Even I'm guilty of that. I think it is stated in the rules. I mean if we have an issue, a mod or an admin are really here to help. And then you can work through that thing you have problem together.

This doesn't have anything to do with the book suggestion. Just the spamming. I also don't like the signature linking to competing lucid dreaming forums.

Humbledreamer, if you want to talk about this with me, it's probably best to take it to PMs.

Originally Posted by Highlander

On the contrary. We would need to see what Daniel actually says on this before assuming anything. From my understanding Mr Love replied quite professionally in response to the spam accusations at the start of that thread. He dealt with the issue rather well. However, when the subject of "spirituality" cropped up he acted rather differently. He became all defensive and 'aggressive' as you quite rightly put it. Not only that, Mr Love was disrespectful towards Eonnn, MoonageDaydream and the forum in general.

Fair enough it's 'his' thread and he is welcome. However, that does not give the OP 'carte blanche' to treat people who actually contribute to the forum on a regular basis with contempt. (I don't include myself in that statement). The 'contribution' part here is an important one though. It is the one major point that MoonageDaydream stated (and I wholeheartedly agree with) where it is blindingly obvious where it seems to be 'all take and no give'.

The actual OP thread title in question reminded me of 'clickbait' I often see across the internet. Even so, I did give Daniel the benefit of the doubt by actually reading the article via the link. I tried to be honest in my critique, but I did note there was some misinformation and conjecture contained within it. I found the second [YouTube] link to be entirely self promotional with no reference to fighting 'misinformation', only subscription.

I acknowledge that he got hostile and disrespectful of people who contribute much more regularly. The thing is, I will tolerate any of you guys loosing your cool once in a rare while. I do not want to censor arguments unless something becomes trolish. If his behavior continued in that way after I got involved, then I would stop it.
Going to check with owners about the link in his sig. It seems wrong to me.

In other news, I'm home from work today. Raging sciatica all weekend Also, a pounding ear infection (it started a year ago in my right ear, and just comes and goes, I've taken 2 antibiotics for it already). Going to the ENT.

I agree with Highlander about the clickbait character of the thread's OP. And I read the linked article, which turned out to quote Daniel as an expert. This made it seem very much like self promotion to me. On the other hand, I would not really mind such self promotion, if he had shown real dedication to participating here on DreamViews. If the topic of using "unproven" technology was truly important, he might have raised it as a discussion here. But he didn't; instead he merely linked to some other website. That irked me somewhat, because he missed a great opportunity to make himself "one of us", if you get my point. He may have been very active in a previous DV life, but since his previous user name is not known (at least, I have no clue who he used to be here), we really have no way to assess his closeness to DV.

I would warmly welcome it, if he participated here, chipping in here and there, and starting discussions from time to time, without linking to off-site places when such linking was not essential. I'm sure this would be beneficial for everyone.

I suspect these views are not unique with me.

Originally Posted by sivason

I acknowledge that he got hostile and disrespectful of people who contribute much more regularly.

I wasn't very impressed with how Mr. Love handled it. Then again I wasn't very impressed with how we the members on this forum handle it either. Not one of our greatest moments here.
I think in my opinion, we can all have better communication.

It's not all bad. There are some good things coming out of this, too. It brought some issues to light that needed to be seen, and important discussions followed.

I don't know about you guys, but I always feel like there's this unspoken silence when people post threads with links like that (and Daniel's not the only one - remember that dream database site that was linked not long ago?). It's good for everyone to get this stuff out on the table where it can be addressed directly. It's even better for Daniel, if you ask me, because now he knows how some of us feel, and can change his approach if he wants. Other members have suggested that they feel more accepting because they see the OP is a real person they can talk with. All of that is progress. We can also use this discussion to see how everyone is feeling in regards to the rules around posting stuff like that, or having links to other forums. Finally, not to sound sappy, but we can use this as a way to learn about each other (and ourselves!) more.

Conflict leads to growth.

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

This doesn't have anything to do with the book suggestion. Just the spamming. I also don't like the signature linking to competing lucid dreaming forums..

Okay, thank you for clarifying that. Sorry I missed this. That is his website. I'm not a member on there but, it is legit unless there is an ad bot that comes up or something that I missed. To be honest, I don't like spam bots either.
In the future, contact the staff if you feel like something is off.

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Humbledreamer, if you want to talk about this with me, it's probably best to take it to PMs.

Thank you for the offer but, I'm okay. I was actually going to suggest bringing the issue to the Talk with Staff.

Rant: Nearly got hit by a car getting mail. To be honest, life is too precious to worry about petty stuff.

Originally Posted by HumbleDreamer

Okay, thank you for clarifying that. Sorry I missed this. That is his website. I'm not a member on there but, it is legit unless there is an ad bot that comes up or something that I missed. To be honest, I don't like spam bots either.
In the future, contact the staff if you feel like something is off.

Perhaps I should have, but it wouldn't have brought the issue to light like it did. And you know, next time I will, just to be kinder. Still, I am happy that I was not just speaking for myself. It was something that needed to be addressed. By the way, I wasn't thinking of a spam bot, but I guess those exist? It's just that, we're struggling for members right now. We don't need our newly joined people to be swept off to other lucid dreaming forums. Just my thought, here.

Originally Posted by HumbleDreamer

Thank you for the offer but, I'm okay. I was actually going to suggest bringing the issue to the Talk with Staff.

Rant: Nearly got hit by a car getting mail. To be honest, life is too precious to worry about petty stuff.

I'm going to be honest with you. I didn't like one of your sentences in your post. This one: "However, it's probably not a great idea to just jump into a thread just to derail it just to drive a point you don't like someone." It felt hostile to me, and I felt that I could not respond to you in a respectful way at the time. I figured PMs would be safer. I'm glad I let it go. The last thing I would want to do is be disrespectful to you, as I consider you a friend. I'm not sure if you feel the same way, but that's okay.

I did talk with staff, sivason to be exact. We had a long conversation over PMs, and I felt it was very enlightening to me. I really liked how we both came to see each others' points and I have a lot more respect for him now, because of it. I also will work on my reactivity in the future. I am not a perfect person by any means.

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Perhaps I should have, but it wouldn't have brought the issue to light like it did. And you know, next time I will, just to be kinder. Still, I am happy that I was not just speaking for myself. It was something that needed to be addressed. By the way, I wasn't thinking of a spam bot, but I guess those exist? It's just that, we're struggling for members right now. We don't need our newly joined people to be swept off to other lucid dreaming forums. Just my thought, here.

Bots exist for spamming, both legit and non-legit things and just actual crap too. There was one on a section of the forum here which I reported more than once I'm sure, though I don't know if it was ever dealt with or not. I stopped looking eventually. In any case, while I really feel what you mean about newly joined people, likewise, people have their own rights and minds to make those choices. Ultimately we're not bound to be in a single group and can participate in more than one group even if the two have overlapping areas, though I guess often one group or another is likely to dominate where we direct our focus...

In many ways I'd rather there was a single place for each one of my interests, but I also recognise that people tend to take their interests elsewhere because of nuances, either about how things are run or about what kind of content is popular in a given place. Sometimes it's just familiarity, features or usability too. By this point I'm familiar with DV and so am not particularly likely to take my focus on dreaming anywhere else for that reason.

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

I'm going to be honest with you. I didn't like one of your sentences in your post. This one: "However, it's probably not a great idea to just jump into a thread just to derail it just to drive a point you don't like someone." It felt hostile to me, and I felt that I could not respond to you in a respectful way at the time. I figured PMs would be safer. I'm glad I let it go. The last thing I would want to do is be disrespectful to you, as I consider you a friend. I'm not sure if you feel the same way, but that's okay.

I did talk with staff, sivason to be exact. We had a long conversation over PMs, and I felt it was very enlightening to me. I really liked how we both came to see each others' points and I have a lot more respect for him now, because of it. I also will work on my reactivity in the future. I am not a perfect person by any means.

Friends can have conflicts too. From my experience and observation, in any kind of personal relationship I feel that conflict often ends up being what makes or breaks the relationship, maybe precisely because we're all unique in some aspects.

Anyway, it's good that things do get talked out like I see happen around here; as an example of "break", a year or two ago a group of my friends got into some really petty stuff and it all ended up breaking up over that; I think and hope that none of us really expect each other to be perfect here, especially since the only pre-requisite for being here really is a shared interest in dreaming, not social etiquette or skills.

Like you said, this is probably good for learning more about each other in general.

---

Anyway, because I sometimes don't like to digress too much from the original topic for a thread, slight mixed rant/rave:

Still having issues with getting up too late, though casual dream recall has been fairly decent, but yesterday I felt so ill for most of the day that I didn't get much of what I wanted to do, done... Today has felt very similar and while I got a few things done, it felt like one of those slow/bad days... I think the best advice I ever got for bad days was "if you're having a bad day, have a bad day".

Extra rant: Forum was being picky about logged in status while trying to post this...

Humbledreamer, I've been thinking on your posts, and I feel like I can and should offer an apology for being less sensitive than I should have been. Although I think de-railing didn't happen so much (people were posting on topic regardless of me), I do see that I could have been kinder and maybe brought issue up in an off-topic thread (like this one) without names attached.

You're right - I'm not a big fan of Daniel. No offense, but that's just how I feel after watching several videos and reading posts on here. You could call it a personality clash. However, you are my friend, and I care what you think, and how you feel. So I apologize. I hope we can still be friends.

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Humbledreamer, I've been thinking about your posts, and I feel like I can and should offer an apology for being less sensitive than I should have been. Although I think de-railing didn't happen so much (people were posting on the topic regardless of me), I do see that I could have been kinder and maybe brought the issue up in an off-topic thread (like this one) without names attached.

Wait you care about me? No need to apologize. I appreciate being friends with you. It is okay to outgrow connections and friendships too. If you need time for yourself. I'm okay with that. Maybe we need a little space?
Maybe I should have just stayed out of it in the first place. I apologize for that.

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

You're right - I'm not a big fan of Daniel. No offense, but that's just how I feel after watching several videos and reading posts on here. You could call it a personality clash. However, you are my friend, and I care what you think, and how you feel. So I apologize. I hope we can still be friends.

No worries, no offense taken. We all have different tastes in things, Beliefs, or even go about things in a different way. Sometimes though, I'm so glad I'm don't have a YouTube or social media.
I probably shouldn't have be hostile when I posted in here. I need to work on that.

Rant: Somehow I actually jumped all the way out of bed and landed on the ground on my knees banging my calf on something. I put it in my journal. Basically in the dream I leaped over a snake and then wham I am on the ground. Too strange. Cool snake though.
Rave: I had my most productive day in the 5 years I have worked for my employer. I have never broke 700 prescriptions checked and hit 722 today.

Originally Posted by sivason

Rant: Somehow I actually jumped all the way out of bed and landed on the ground on my knees banging my calf on something. I put it in my journal. Basically in the dream I leaped over a snake and then wham I am on the ground. Too strange. Cool snake though.
Rave: I had my most productive day in the 5 years I have worked for my employer. I have never broke 700 prescriptions checked and hit 722 today.

Wow. That's weird. I also dreamed of running and jumping over snakes. Was there a bus almost running you over in your dream by chance? Or an earthquake?

Originally Posted by HumbleDreamer

Wait you care about me? No need to apologize. I appreciate being friends with you. It is okay to outgrow connections and friendships too. If you need time for yourself. I'm okay with that. Maybe we need a little space?
Maybe I should have just stayed out of it in the first place. I apologize for that.

I'm not some sort of ice queen, you know. We're cool on my end.

BTW, last night in between dreams, a voice saying "No need to apologize."

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Wow. That's weird. I also dreamed of running and jumping over snakes. Was there a bus almost running you over in your dream by chance? Or an earthquake?
"

Nope, no bus or earthquake.

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

I'm not some sort of ice queen, you know. We're cool on my end.

BTW, last night in between dreams, a voice saying "No need to apologize."

I'm feel a bit overwhelm with everything that have been going with on my life and online. To be honest, I need a little space.

Originally Posted by HumbleDreamer

I'm feel a bit overwhelm with everything that have been going with on my life and online. To be honest, I need a little space.

Ouch. Okay. Sad to hear that, but whatever. Get yourself some space (that's on you).

The way you worded it - it made it sound like you were talking about me needing space. That's why I didn't understand you.

Maybe use PMs next time?

(For extra clarification, this is not intended to sound mean. I hope you know that.)

Sorry, if there was a misunderstanding somewhere in there? I appreciate your friendship, I really love having you in my life and wanted to make sure you know that. It's a really great feeling like I have some cool people here to talk to and share in interests with but, I need to find time for myself in general. I'm not mad at you or anyone else here. I just feel a bit overwhelm with stuff.