Rant and Rave, Cry and Complain

**Woodstock** · 12-14-2012 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

I think it's about time for another good, old fashioned psychedelic neurochemistry rant. This story may seem a bit too romantic to my fellow psychedelic enthusiasts, but it's just something that came to mind.

As I said, I've been thinking about tryptamine all day. I read in the article about it I bought that it's theorized to work as opposite to serotonin. It binds to serotonin receptors as an agonist but has very low activity and so it behaves more like an antagonist. That got me thinking about 2C-B, 2C-C, 2C-D, and 2C-I. All four of them are said to behave antagonistically to serotonin because of their low efficacies, but what's significant is that they still activate the part of the 5-HT2A receptor that serotonin doesn't as agonists. I'm pretty sure that's why they still cause psychedelic hallucinations and ego loss even considering that. They're also, or at least 2C-B and 2C-I were for me, much less emotionally intense and more stimulant-like than other psychedelics. I've heard about people getting psychedelic effects from tryptamine as well, so if it's true that it blocks serotonergic activity then it might be this same way. Tryptamine is also a NMDA antagonist and so it could cause dissociative effects. I started thinking about what it's effects in the prefrontal cortex would be. Decreased serotonin activity disrupts rational thought processes and activation of the serotonin-insensitive function of 5-HT2A causes distortions of ego. It also deactivates metabotropic glutamate receptors, which I'm presuming is why it's known to block the neurotoxicity of NMDA antagonism. This of course frees tryptamine up to cause an out-of-body experience by blocking those receptors.

That's when I really got to thinking. The theory in the paper was that the tryptamine system opposed the serotonin system, and serotonin is the chemical related to calm, happy, and carefree mindsets. I started thinking, what if tryptamine is part of a stress reaction? What if norepinephrine release or something related to it in the prefrontal cortex caused an increase in tryptamine levels that amounted for the dissociation, time dilation, instinctive reactions, and loss of emotional reactions from heavy adrenaline rushes? I once thought that norepinephrine was somehow at the core of 5-HT2A ego loss, but now I'm thinking it could be the other way around. They say that 5-HT2A is involved in stress and depression, and psychedelics definitely set your mind on overdrive, but if tryptamine works the way I think it does then this could actually block those feelings and let you remain calm while still having psychedelic distortions of reality. The reason no psychedelic synesthesia or sensory hallucinations would be involved is because those happen in the visual cortex and this is all confined to the prefrontal cortex, but it would still cause the same kind of out-of-body effects. If all of that is true, then it's possible that near-death experiences could actually result from the significant increase of tryptamine activity, which would make them psychedelic in nature. And if you ever actually read vivid descriptions of typical near-death OBEs, they definitely sound that way. This ties me back to when I was thinking that the out-of-body effects of adrenaline rushes must be tied into the same dopamine release that gets adrenaline junkies hooked, the one that happens in the mesolimbic pathway in response to prefrontal norepinephrine, which has also been identified in playing a role in the reward of stimulants and opioids. That dopamine pathway is known for being one of the key things involved in dreams, when that part of the brain is deactivated dreams just don't form. However, the prefrontal cortex has been more closely tied to out-of-body experiences. Interestingly, the mesolimbic pathway has a function called the amygdala hijack where in a moment of intense stress it can shut down the function of the prefrontal cortex, which is how the adrenaline rush effect works. With all that considered, it certainly made it seem like mesolimbic dopamine would be what was causing the increase in tryptamine levels in the prefrontal cortex.

Here's where it gets interesting. I remember finding a quote by Rick Strassman a while back saying that he found evidence that DMT levels increase during intense stress, like when you're approaching death. I really wish I knew where he got this information from, but there were no links to it. However, what's significant about it is that DMT is a direct metabolite of tryptamine. DMT only exists in the brain because tryptamine is metabolizing into it, which means that if DMT levels increase then tryptamine levels have probably increased even more. If DMT appears in situation of extreme stress, it would make sense to suggest that that means a very strong effect from tryptamine might be reached by that point. If this is the case, that would mean that dreams (and sex, and basically all recreational drug highs) also increase the levels of tryptamine in the prefrontal cortex. Since dopamine levels are at their very highest during dreams, this would cause high levels of tryptamine to shut down the serotonin receptor function of the prefrontal cortex and put you in that instinctive, non-lucid mindset, aside from the psychedelic and dissociative properties which would then be used to form the out-of-body experience that is the dream world. Significantly, DMT would not play a role because it activates serotonin receptors and serotonin receptors are very inactive during REM (correlating with tryptamine), but it would be present. It's possible that it may still bind to other receptors and have effects, but it's hard to say. This also ties into why the aforementioned 2C-x psychedelics are more stimulant-like because they feel more like the energy of REM than the usual emotional intensity of drugs like the classical psychedelics.

So, now back to my same old complaint. There's no hope of proving this right now, and may not be for some time.

But... but... but.... I want to know....

This is very interesting. Please post more!

**Linkzelda** · 12-14-2012 06:47 AM

I swear you guys are making her your own drug/neurotransmitter database lol.

**Zhaylin** · 12-14-2012 10:03 AM

Hubby was fortunate when he went to College to become a doctor. He was in some sort of accelerated program, in Miami, and was done in something like 2 1/2 years. He only took courses he needed. He says it was very brutal, though.
I couldn't even force myself through High School, so I admire all the College students here

The Office dinner went very well. The food completely agreed with me which is almost unheard of! Then I came home and died by 6PM. I didn't wake up until 3:30AM It's about time I got some real sleep. I had some weird dreams but one of them was COMPLETELY new. I've never had anything like it before and it was neat, gross and somewhat disturbing lol. In the dream, I was walking outside and one of my wrists hurt a lot. I bent my wrist back (like Spiderman when he's throwing a web) and out from my wrist came a millipede. It didn't shoot out, it just protruded a great deal. It was very long. When I relaxed my wrist, it quickly went back in. So I tensed again and pulled it out. All of this was really painful. When it first broke the surface of my skin, it hurt a lot and the dream was so vivid I could see the flesh tear and blood ooze. After I got it out, I flexed again and a smaller one revealed itself. I didn't know if it was just the head, lodged under the skin or a different one. I eventually got it out too.

The dream continued and I eventually found myself at College (of all places lol) and one of the professors was having a really bad hair day which made him extremely cranky. I had done some research on the worm before class and discovered there was one type which lived (part time) under water. They made some sort of casing (which looked a lot like a condom lol) which held the air they needed to breathe. So, of course, the professor asked if I had been a good girl because the typical way the millipedes were transmitted were by sex

And once again, the dream was so vivid, when I glanced at my wrist, I could see not only the wound left by forcing it out, but ridges from their sectioned body.

It's hard to rant about anything after that awesome dream, but... I'm hungry again lol. I still have half of that blueberry muffin, dry cheerios and a few chips so I guess I wont starve

I'll go to the store after hubby leaves for work at 8.

**Original Poster** · 12-14-2012 10:13 AM

I tried 2C-I, it was pretty awesome, kind of like ecstasy. 2C-P is fucked up though, from what I've heard. It's put a lot of my friends in the hospital.

**khh** · 12-14-2012 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Crashyy

@Melanieb Yeah I believe it was iodine contrast. I'm not sure if it was iodine but they definately mentioned contrast. And thank you

If you drank it, it was almost certainly barium sulfate contrast. Iodine contrast is only used intravenously, as far as I know.

**Zhaylin** · 12-14-2012 11:52 AM

Ugh... so I have a new rant, silly though it may be.
I keep getting occasional emails from a battlle.com saying my World of Warcraft account is being banned, and recently, that I'm trying to sell my characters which is in violation of blah blah blah.
First off, sorry, but I'm not going to click on your link. I don't know who you are.
So I googled them and they seem real. But as Battlenet.com (one "l" not 2). So I get onto Blizzard (creators of WoW) but every page thereafter is linked to Battlenet.

I try to log in, but can't. Crap. Did I forget the password? I don't think so.
So I open a new browser and log into my xyleisha@ account. There I'm given a warning that I need to create a new account because mine might have been compromised because I hadn't logged in for 3 years

Forget it, show me my email.

I have almost 9,000 unread messages lol I was such an idiot back then. I signed up for every newsletter that seemed the slightest bit interesting. I had twitter alerts (I signed up for and never used), xanga notices (an old blog) and MySpace and LiveJournal (also never really used but signed up for). I successfully reset my password but I still can't log in.
To make matters worse, the game isn't even installed on this computer because I got it after 2009 when I last played WoW (every time I played, the internet was shut off by the company so I eventually stopped trying to play).
But I would like to play again one of these days. I love my characters, especially my main- a level 86 or so Human Rogue. I'm not sure I even remember her name

So, I signed up on Battlenet and I'm downloading a free trial of the game under awitness4jehovah which is my current email (and has been since xyleisha). I tried to merge the accounts and it acted like it was doing just that, then I received an ERROR!

So, 10 hours from now (or however long it really takes lol) the game will be installed and I'll try logging in from there.

My rant is: Why the heck do I care? I've not played that game in ages. There have been so many updates and expansions that if I DO ever play again, I HAVE to create a new toon in order to enjoy the game and know what the heck is what.
But I keep irritating myself anyhow trying to save it

Maybe it's the idea that someone is trying to molest my creations. By God, I created that account and those toons and even if I never use them again, I'll be darned if anyone else will!

Arg....

**Abra** · 12-14-2012 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Xei

I'd rather be at an American-style uni I think... my main interest is in theories of intelligence, so I'd like to have a decent knowledge of psychology, neuroscience, theoretical computer science, philosophy, epistemology in particular, linguistics, etcetera, alongside mathematics. In the British system I study entirely mathematics for three years... so I just study those other things in my spare time, of which I currently have none. I guess I'll try to fan out somehow in graduate education... maybe even study in America.

Then again, as a result I have seen a lot of really interesting stuff in depth which I wouldn't have otherwise, and it could provide some original insights. Also by observing my own work it's made me acutely aware of the nature of rigorous problem solving and inference, which is the main skill they try to teach here. So it's not all bad.

I was just surprised you were doing some stuff in algebra which I don't think comes up at the undergraduate level here... but checking the Wikipedia page I see that the theorem's specifically really useful for chemistry, so I suppose you're just applying a result rather than building up the theory behind it? I guess you do mainly applied, calculusy courses, along with maybe a little bit of analysis and applying results from linear algebra and groups..?

Actually, the series business is apart of my real analysis course. I'll be taking modern algebra, symbolic logic, (bayesian epistemology, though that ain't math) and numerical linear algebra next semester... Only that last one really aids chemistry. I haven't had to take as much math as a solo-math major does, because apparently some of my chem courses go towards my math major (as applied math credits). If I could, I'd take a course solely on topology, and a course on linear programming methods... Alas, I have to graduate some time.

**Linkzelda** · 12-14-2012 02:57 PM

I'm coughing so much that my eyes are getting watery, and now I'm informed that I should go ahead and pack up today. God, this coughing is getting worse and I'm literally crying unintentionally....I never knew I could cough so hard... Ugh. I hope medication later on will help me. And I know my throat is going to be sore after this....

I thought it was at least tomorrow or Sunday is where I could prepare, and I thought today would at least be my last day to just sit on the bed and go into self-pity for a while before I have to go back to reality.

This metal bowl with all the spit and mucus...I can't believe so much of this stuff was inside of me in a short period of time.

**Xei** · 12-14-2012 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Abra

Actually, the series business is apart of my real analysis course.

Yeah of course, I was just talking about the Polya thing.

I'll be taking modern algebra, symbolic logic, (bayesian epistemology, though that ain't math) and numerical linear algebra next semester... Only that last one really aids chemistry. I haven't had to take as much math as a solo-math major does, because apparently some of my chem courses go towards my math major (as applied math credits). If I could, I'd take a course solely on topology, and a course on linear programming methods... Alas, I have to graduate some time.

Yeah that's probably a good idea. If you study it properly, topology is initially just learning some dry definitions and some kinda uninteresting theorems. It gets quite abstruse before you start learning interesting stuff, like the classic thing about classifying closed surfaces. I never took that route, I stick to algebra and discrete stuff on the pure side. I'm doing symbolic logic at the moment; that stuff is pretty crazy when you do it in depth. Completeness theorems, compactness, modern set theories, and cardinals and ordinals... definitely recommended, so cool.

**ThePreserver** · 12-14-2012 08:39 PM

School shootings are a tragedy, but by covering them so intensely in the news and basically glorifying the killer, we're only setting ourselves up for more tragedies.

This short video is incredibly valuable and applicable despite it being over 3 years old.

**khh** · 12-14-2012 11:16 PM

Wait, is Xei banned again?

**Xei** · 12-14-2012 11:35 PM

Not from the forums any more, but I'm still banned from irc for no reason. I thought I'd keep the title until that changes.

Although apparently a few of the oldies stopped using irc now because they didn't like how it was being run... and quite a few of the other oldies are banned of course. ED seems rather dead too... such a shame, it used to be so busy and interesting.

**Linkzelda** · 12-14-2012 11:58 PM

If people who want to act cool to others and insult them and tell them how much they're shit, or how this person is lame, and they go so far to pick the most pettiest of things, of course they'll leave when they actually see people who are going to ban them out.

It always ends up like this:

When nothing is done:

"omfg0rz, dv staff isn't doing anything to moderate ch4t, they're so sto0pid."

When something is done:

"omfg0zrs, theyz be like nazis, this is so st00pid."

So they'll make a secret channel to reclaim their dominance, then invite a few people who they know will come to their secret channel so they can kick them so they can feel a bit better about themselves to ease their butthurt from being banned on DV chat.

They make channels as if it's their whole world, their only way to look cool, when they're really just as pathetic as any other human being.

I can't blame them though, with some IRC channels I went to that were far worse, DV Chat before those people left was actually funny; they could never compare to a few maniacs in other channels I've been too.

Oh well, eliminate a few clogs in the system and things are a little decent now.

**Xei** · 12-15-2012 12:02 AM

Who else got banned?

**Xei** · 12-15-2012 12:30 AM

Oh I just remembered I meant to clarify something by the way; the thing Auron said about me being banned because I was warned and then I 'retaliated' against the mods to get the last word was entirely made up by him.

**Original Poster** · 12-15-2012 01:59 AM

Yeah fuck the mods.

Just kidding. I think I get away with enough shit as it is.

**tommo** · 12-15-2012 03:51 AM

Mods are pissing me the fuck of.
This forum is seriously going to shit because of them.

**OpheliaBlue** · 12-15-2012 05:03 AM

I know it, I hate when they delete hoards of DJ spam, properly direct off topic threads, and keep porn to a dull roar. I'll tell them to back off a little

Xei: I asked about the irc thing, and you are not currently banned from chat. If you still can't get in, please PM me.

**Linkzelda** · 12-15-2012 05:53 AM

This really sucks, I need a B in History to pass the semester, otherwise, it's major kissing ass in a form of a letter. Or trying to win a last minute scholarship in hopes that it can transfer in time so I don't get kicked out.

If I get C, that means I was 1 point away from passing, and out of all failures that can be accomplished academically, that is the WORST scar. And I'm still left speculating what the hell Achilles' heel refers to in my dreams; I know it means a weakness or vulnerability I have, but I can't even pinpoint it down.

The slight anxiety isn't even the weakness, since that's always eliminated really quick. Just what am I actually "weak" against, especially if it's suppose to have a doubly effect on me?

I shouldn't really set the future just yet until the grade is posted, but it seems I'll just be another average joe along with the other billions of people in this planet. It's amazing what the mind can think of to make me worry a lot.

**BossMan** · 12-15-2012 09:32 AM

I hate my cat and have no idea how to get rid of her SIGH! I put up an ad and no one is responding, at this rate I'm gonna just take her to an animal shelter if no one adopts her then oh well, I can't put up with it any more.

**Zhaylin** · 12-15-2012 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by BossMan

I hate my cat and have no idea how to get rid of her SIGH! I put up an ad and no one is responding, at this rate I'm gonna just take her to an animal shelter if no one adopts her then oh well, I can't put up with it any more.

I hope you find a good home for her.... but why do you hate her so much lol

My rant is the news. Yesterday, I heard about the school shooting and I shrugged it off: Just another day in the States. Then I heard the details and cried. And then there was the attack in China as well. What is it with people targeting such young children?
I'm ranting that this has become so familiar that it doesn't shock me as much as it should. 'Eh, it's only 1-5 people... nothing new'

What the heck?! When does it become shocking to me? 10 people, 20? Or do the victims have to be kids?

My heart goes out to all the kids and all the families. If that happened here, I doubt I'd ever be able to send my kid back to school. Ever!

Other than that, all is well. I slept from 7:30PM to 6AM. What the heck lol I need to find something else to prop the head of my bed up with though. I've been using styrofoam end pieces that came in the box when I bought my space heater. Against my air mattress, the squeaking is becoming bothersome

If I didn't move around so much, it wouldn't be a problem, but I toss and turn all night.
I don't remember my dreams. As soon as I got up, I got on CNN, so I forgot them quickly. One was complex and something about shapes, but that's all I recall.

TIme to check my farms then get on WoW

Seems I successfully merged the accounts after all... but the free trial doesn't extend to my old account. So I'm trying out the werewolf and goblins

**BossMan** · 12-15-2012 05:35 PM

Chain pissing on the floor, I already took her to the vet and shes fine, I moved the bloody litter box around and she still pisses infront of it, I checked if her litter was enough and it is. Also Incessant meowing while I sleep and running around the apartment driving me crazy. Pissing on my carpet and clothes cause she feels like it. knocking shit off my counter top and throwing it around at night while I'm trying to sleep. Not to mention ruining countless LD attempts.

After this experience I hate cats, and I will probably never adopt one again... Big mistake....

**Xei** · 12-15-2012 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by OpheliaBlue

Xei: I asked about the irc thing, and you are not currently banned from chat. If you still can't get in, please PM me.

I can get in now. Why did it take a fortnight to remove me from the ban list?

I would have PM'd you, but, you know... PM's are broken.

**~~Alyzarin~~** · 12-16-2012 01:00 AM

The amount of DV that needs to be checked by me is absurd. This is what happens when you let days go by without clearing it all out, it just stacks up on itself so much. Ah, well.

Exams are finally over, along with the school semester, so that's good. But other than that I could be feeling better right now. -.-;; For the past week and a half or so I've driven pretty much at least four hours every day, and that's really starting to put a strain on me, especially my legs. Not to mention the credit card. I've also got two nights of drinking stacked on me right now, so that's lovely. I'm about to have to drive for an hour to feed my friend's pets one last time and then pick up her and her husband from the airport, and then it'll be an hour drive back home and I'll be done with that. Of course, I'm also going to hang out with another friend who lives in that area in the early morning which means another two hours worth of driving, at least. For this winter break I really need to like... not drive anywhere myself. And gets lots and lots of exercise.

At least I should be able to knock out early tonight and get a good amount of sleep though. Bleeeeech.

Originally Posted by tommo

Yeah, problem is it won't continue. I learned horrible habits by doing the same thing.
Now, I have failed to achieve anything notable in my 23 years of life.
I also have barely worked coz I just sat around doing nothing, and even when I'm trying to get a job, I still barely try and submit one application and wait.
Having a shit work history, it just makes getting a job even more difficult.

This applied to every aspect of life really. I could say the same about relationships too.
Just never took the plunge and asked any of the girls I like out (even when they flat out said they like me, I did nothing).
I was just waiting, but I don't even know for what.
It just makes it harder to ask girls out now, coz I have no experience.

Another example, when I wanted to break up with my gf, I just sat around waiting, it was during the holidays so no Uni, and it worked itself out.
She realised I just wasn't talking to her and she got another bf lol
But.... that was just lucky, a time will come (if I ever get off my arse and talk to people and find a gf) where that won't be possible.
And I'll have to deal with it.

I mean, if you already know how to deal with something, and can definitely do it, there's no harm in just waiting it out if it's easier.
But if you're just hiding away from it, that's not a good long-term strategy.

Yeah, hiding is definitely something I'm good at it. I really need to get out and be more active (though to be fair I did just finish exam week). I have things in mind to do, I just don't end up doing them. :T

I got lucky on the relationship front, it kind of happened unexpectedly. The rest isn't going to go the same though. I need to start thinking about my future....

Thanks for the advice.

Originally Posted by Woodstock

This is very interesting. Please post more!

Thanks.

Don't worry, I'm sure I'll have a new version in a day or two lol. I've already learned some wonderful new things about kappa-opioid receptors and how they tie into all this, and how they and CB1, GABA(A), and D2 receptors may all interact with each other and NMDA receptors in the striatum. There are always new things to be learned.

Also, I suddenly have a strong craving for salvia. Hmmm....

Originally Posted by Original Poster

I tried 2C-I, it was pretty awesome, kind of like ecstasy. 2C-P is fucked up though, from what I've heard. It's put a lot of my friends in the hospital.

2C-I is one of the truly recreational psychedelics, in my opinion. It has a nice cosmic feeling with some generally kick-ass visuals while still being really energetic and recreational, I really enjoy it. I've never tried 2C-P, but I've wanted to because of how strong it supposedly is. I have heard some pretty nasty things about it though, along the lines of vomiting blood. Probably not a huge loss. >.>