Failed WILD because of odd eye flickering

Hi all,
Posted a thread similar to this when it happened before but this time its a bit different.

Was attempting to WILD last night and I knew SP was coming, and then my eyes sorta focused in on the blackness around me (closed eyes of cause) which I associate with the beginning of HI.

Let it be known now, I haven't ever actually successfully gone lucid due to a WILD before, but this is all what it felt like in accordance with the associated steps to lucidity.

However at this point my eyes started to twitch and flicker on their own. I was quite conscious of this and tried to 'stay with it' and tried to ride it out but to no avail. My left eye felt like it was doing it more too.

I was sorta like my eyes were doing changing speeds of Voluntary Nystagmus, which I have (can do). For those who don't know what that is, you may have seen people do it before and call it, 'shaking their eyes' where you move your eyes really quickly back and forth. I do it horizontally which is the most common.

Anyway, once it started, the flickering went on for about 30 seconds at which point they subsided and it felt like I went back a stage in the WILD. I then got a little itchy and didn't move, thus inducing the bizzare eye movements a second time, which I tried to ride out by focusing on my breathing. Unfortunately I sorta stepped back a stage again and then gave up.

Could anyone shed some light/experience on my problem?

Cheers

You started to enter REM. That means that you were getting close.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ninja9578

You started to enter REM. That means that you were getting close.

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Well that's what I thought at first but then I remembered that you enter REM about 5-6 hours into sleep (or something like that) and I had only been in bed for about 20mins.

So if it is REM, is this normal? How do I get around the flickers?

Cheers

I wandered the same thing. Is it possible to WILD right after going to bed? I am new to this and have been journalling for a little while and trying to establish dreamsigns. A couple nights ago I attempted a WILD after waking up in the middle of the night after a Non Lucid dream. Everything seemed as advertised, sinking through bed, very heavy feeling (almost felt like a was standing on my head?), then HI and then I think I entered a LD. I was in a dark hallway with a person sitting at a desk at the other end. I wanted to test my state so I looked at my wrist to check my watch and there was no watch. Then I just kept looking at my hands, then went down the hall to look for a clock to do another test of state but I woke up. The dream was kind of fuzzy and really short, but I felt like I was aware in it, but I was all dizzy and couldn't walk very good. Is this normal? Does anyone have an idea if this could have been an LD or not and does anyone have any suggestions to further myself, I have not had luck with WILDS since then and am still working on dream recall. Thanks.

d-dub, I had the same kind of dream the other day... It is considered an LD, as you knew that you were dreaming. I think the only way to "further yourself" is to keep trying. I'm pretty much at that stage.

Mr_Jinsue: Yes, that is normal, but I'm not really sure how to get around it, as it doesn't bother me.

@Jinsue

You enter REM many times throughout the night, that does indeed sound like what was happening. Typically the first stage of it starts around ~90 minutes into your sleep cycle, many things can change this including certain drugs, changes to regular sleep cycle, naps throughout the day, etc.. All can basically affect your REM periods in positive or negative ways. But basically your rem period progressively gets longer and longer throughout the night, so the last few hours are the best times to try to become lucid.

I cannot say.. for sure what causes this, many things "supposedly" suppress rem sleep temporarily, so that it comes back in full force at a later time in the day. For example if on Monday night you only sleep 5 hours instead of your usual 8 or 9, you defiantly missed out on the majority of your REM period, because alot of it happens between stages 3/4 of a sleep cycle. The next time you go to sleep often you will START in an REM phase, or very close to.

So for instance on Tuesday night when you lay down you may find yourself experiencing REM early, or an unusually good recall that night, for the simple fact that your having more vivid dreams.

This is why naps mid day are a great way to work on lucidity, and your dream journal providing you can go undisturbed, which can be hard while everyone in the neighborhood is up and about.. Light can also be distracting.

The flickers is very natural, it was kind of.. awkward at first for me if I happened to be awake during it, but I've found that I notice it less and less now. The best thing you can do is let it happen, dont try to .. "slow" them down or stop it from happening.. usually by this point you are very far through the transition, so its just a matter of time before you slip in, USUALLY :P. Everyone is different, but for me it usually means.. relax and let it happen. It defiantly sounds like you were trying to do so, just keep it up.

Maybe try incorporating a different form of sensual awareness, instead of waiting for an image to appear... Try using tactile sensations, or try to "hear" things around you, I usually try to think of either a very familiar, or very relaxing scene.. aka imagining myself walking around my backyard, touch the grass, walls, bricks, bark, dirt.. all that noise..

Also you could imagine yourself say.. laying on the beach.. feel the warm sand beneath you, listen to the ocean splashing into the coast, feel the wind, smell the clear air.. usually your mind naturally forms an image, instead of you trying... to sculpt one piece by piece.. For me, trying to work with HI just doesnt happen, tactile sensations are awesome for me.

Its also even possible you had a false awakening, try to preform reality checks often if you are unsure of your state.. Obviously dont do anything that requires you to.. physically get up/wake up unless you really dont know whether or not you are awake. Try to think of what you did earlier in the day even. Soon you will be able to more or less tell the difference between the two stages, and possibly find a great way to get through the transition.

Everyone has different limits, Its next to impossible for me to tell you how to do it.. My advice is try everything you can, eventually something will click, and you'll be like wow, how the hell did I not realize this before.. The tutorial section is full of ideas from many people, some will work, some wont.. its the name of the game :)

@ Shady

Wow thats almost a tutorial in itself :P

Anyway, it is very helpful. First off with the whole REM cycle thing. Since I starting trying to LD/WILD I have been sticking to quite regular sleep cycles of going to bed 9-10pm walking about 7-8am (I'm on holidays so its all good for times) however that is just when I have always slept. Since trying to WILD I can always induce a sort of minor SP and HI. I have never been really trapped and unable to move yet but I'm not really concerned about that. I have really learnt patience and can lie still for ages now but I start to feel tingly and my focus (eyes) shifts after about 20 minutes of lying in bed. What I mean about shifting focus is that it feels like my eyes are looking at something further away or closer (can't tell because its all black :)).

Judging by what you said about missing out on REM, being tired in general wouldn't really help but being tired from lack of previous sleep could help.

The first and second times I WILD'ed I had vibrations, the next time I just sorta looked at some HI for a bit, then the next 2 I had these uncomfortable eye twitches and last night my eyes tried twitching a little but then stopped and I kept seeing brief sets of light coming passed my eyes. This I can only describe as being like silhouette train tracks moving passed really fast all white and black. These came in sets of 3-4 and each one was less bright than the last.
After the last one I always had the feeling of stepping back a stage towards LD'ing (although I could be going forward, I'm not an expert here :P) and usually a green sort of light would wash over the blackness and my eyes would shift their focus out and HI would stop.
This happened about 4 times so I was quite calm by the 3rd go through.

Soooo, my experiences with WILD'ing have been quite eratic and changing however I feel I know my way through the steps getting to HI, I just don't know how to move beyond it.

I do RC's through out most the day with my digital watch and whenever I think I may have gotten somewhere in a WILD I do the block your airway trick and try to breathe (because you don't move to do it) but I could never breathe doing it.

I will try doing some tactile sensations as you suggested since I've read up on that and it could prove quite helpful. When in the WILD stages would you suggest starting to try feeling the sensations? From the very beginning or when I notice HI etc?

To move from HI etc into the dream will probably require myself to do something to move pull myself into the dream but I don't really know how, what to do or what to focus on. Some help on that would be good too :)

I feel I'm getting closer though.
Cheers

Good to hear, I find its useless to try anything unless I am already beginning to feel SP and such, at least vibrations. I usually just start off just relaxing, controlling my breathing, etc.. I'll get vibrations in 5 minutes, and thats a good time to start for me.

This holds true with almost any technique for me, for example in a FILD (Finger induced) If i start the movement before vibrations set in, it becomes so repetitive that by the time I need to use it as an anchor on reality, I've forgotten about it and will slip into a regular dream.

Just try to find the balance where you can progressivly fall asleep, almost naturally, but still experience some tactile sensations (or whatever you are using that night). If you think or try to hard, you often wont fall asleep.. happens to me quite often tbh. But im getting better and better at it, just takes some fine tuning.

Try to stick to one method a night for now, so you can be consistent in your results.. Trying 5 things a night, on random nights, where you sleep for different periods wont help. If its obviously something isnt working, you can try another.. but by this point im usually to distracted, and just assume fall back to sleep normally, maybe set an alarm for 30 mins later or something, and try then. You wont get much sleep, but it gets you back to square one fairly easily.

Do you guys attempt WILD at the beginning of the night? I.e. when you first go to sleep? Or do you wait until the longer stages of REM?

Combine it with WBTB usually, which means go to bed for a few hours, get up for anywhere from like 5 mins to an hour depending what works for you, then do a wild.

Well while WBTB is supposed to be the best time for WILD'ing I don't (tried once but just fell asleep). All of these attempts at WILDs are done by going straight to sleep, that's why I was dubious about if I was in REM or not.
Anyway, I plan on trying again tonight because last night/this morning I did get lucid :) But that was a DILD.

It involved me jumping of my two story balcony and piledriving (spinning) down to the ground and then bailing out at the last moment by flying back up. Was very fun and then as I jumped once I realised how stupid that was and figured since I wasn't hurt yet, I must be a sleep!

Still not a successful WILD though, but I'm keeping at it.

Cheers

Thanks for the info, have any of you tried to do a wild in conjunction with self hypnosis to get you into the beginning stages of the wild, i.e. sleep paralysis?

No, and I don't see why you would need hypnosis when SP is quite easy to get too. Its getting passed SP thats the hard bit, for me at least :P

Cheers

OK so a little update now,

I have started up at school again and so my sleep patterns are quite defined now. I have been trying WILD's every night and did get closer than ever once with some incredibly vivid HI.
The image was like looking out of a camera lens but the circular, black edge was all fuzzy like an iris had only opened 3/4 of the way. I was looking at some grass (how exciting :P) but dispite my best efforts I couldn't move my head/eyes at all so the image was still.
The other thing about the HI was that it was lacking most of its color. It was almost completely desaturated of color (as I photoshopper I would say about 85% destaturation) so it was mostly black and white with a bit of colour tones here and there.

Also woke up at about 4 this morning because someone was walking aorund upstairs. Thinking nothing about LD's I went back to sleep straight away and remember a dream I had.

I was outside my house on a clear, cloudless day, about noon. I looked up at the bright, blue sky and saw what I first thought was a dozen airplanes flying parallel away from me towards the ocean. I thought this because of the white jetstream they leave. Then I realised they moved far too fast to be planes and concluded (how I don't know) that they were nukes! I felt safe enough being in the other direction and went inside.
At some point I don't quite recall, I thought about what I had seen and remember thinking, no way would people nuke here, I must be dreaming. So I got lucid via DILD which I feel quite proud of :D. Unfortunately the only thing I did once that happened was try to have sex with the closest woman (whom I was not aware of till this point of lucidity).

Now I've read up on sex in LD and a lot of people say its not great because it usually wakes you up, not as good as the real thing etc etc so I decided that that was not what I wanted to do and tried to pull my dream away from that. I then became a lot more aware of my RL body and woke up :(.

Anywho, I did not recall the part of this dream at all until about 10 oclock today 3-4 hours later of being awake. I was going to PE and looking at the sky and quite vividly the whole section of dream seemed to do a flashback in my mind. I have had this sort of experience before but not to such a large point of recall, just minor details about a dream scene.

Anyway, I though I would share this and maybe get some more insight from you great DV people!

Cheers

I once went into REM while I was just lying in bed, pretty much fully awake. I wasn't trying to WILD or do any technique for that matter. It just happened. I had been a member of DV for a while and knew it must mean something so I let it happen but it stopped after about 30 seconds.