Lucid dream, the most horrible experience in my life. HELP!

First, I’d like to say that I’m new here so please don’t hate me if I write something stupid or in the wrong place. Also, English is not my native language so don’t hate me if I spell something wrong. I would be very grateful if someone could read this and tell me what I did wrong, because I’m kind of freaked out right now.

Think I dreamed a lucid dream tonight. It was cool but extremely scary. Mostly scary.

Background: I started to read about lucid dreams about three weeks ago. I’ve kept a dream journal but only remembered two dreams. This was my first lucid dream.

My dream:
I’m walking on a street in the neighborhood where I grew up. Suddenly, I notice that the trees look different than usual. It's hard to describe but I get a sense of unreality. I do a reality check, and put my finger against the palm of my hand and notice that it slides through without meeting any resistance. It makes me aware of that I’m dreaming and I feel excited about it.

I decide to try flying. It's not like I jump up in the air and start flapping my arms, I simply lean forward as if I was standing on the edge of a cliff and the ground disappears underneath me and I sail through the air. I am no longer in my childhood neighborhood, now I’m flying over a mountain landscape I have never seen before. At first, I experience a exciting feeling of total freedom. Then the scary part began.

I become aware of gravity, and it tears my body down and I feel very heavy. Kind of like when you’re riding a roller coaster and it turns quickly, and you really feel it in your stomach, though the power is down. I’m not starting to fall, but the gravity is now so strong that it becomes a physical pain. It's like someone has hung heavy weights on my body and the pain increases more and more. It feels like gravity is going to tare my body apart and it hurts like hell. I become aware of how high up I am and experience terrible vertigo, even though I’m usually not at all afraid of heights.
I now think that I want to wake up and repeat it in my head but nothing happen. I'm starting to panic and I feel trapped. The feeling of freedom I experienced before is now completely gone and all I feel is trapped and claustrophobic, which is strange because I’m still flying freely over the landscape. Somehow, I realize that I’m going to die. It sounds stupid now that I’m awake, but I guess I wasn’t thinking logical at the time. However, I experience a lot of agony.

I start to think that if I just come down to the ground again, I will wake up. I tip over and start diving towards the ground and I fall head over heels, head first. I clearly feel the wind against my face and I realize that I will be crushed when I hit the ground. Now I have completely and full panic. I can no longer control my body and the ground comes closer and closer. Eventually, with a tremendous effort of strength, I manage to straighten up. I sail once again through the air, but now so low that I almost touch the tree tops and I can’t fly any higher. I'm quite sure I will soon crash into a super-high tree. I am so afraid that I do not dare to move at all and I remember thinking that I was going to be stuck there forever and that I’d never wake up again. Then the world begins to blur more and more and suddenly I’m lying in my bed again, completely soaked in sweat. It took me ten minutes to calm down.

What the hell?! Aren’t Lucid Dreams supposed to be pleasant experiences? Everything I've read have said that you can’t fell pain in dreams. Why did I do that? And why couldn’t I wake up? Is not the thing about lucid dreaming that one can control them? Was it even a lucid dream?
It was among the most horrible things I have experienced when I thought I was stuck there forever. Now I’m afraid to go to sleep, because I might have another lucid dream and never wake up again.

Who said you can't feel pain in dreams? As far as I know, you can feel anything in a dream that you can feel in real life, which is good news and bad news I suppose. A lot of us are just reckless enough not to worry about pain.

You don't always have perfect control in lucid dreams. My dream control isn't very good, but I prefer exploration to manipulation anyway. You can learn better control over time.

Of course you aren't going to get stuck in a lucid dream and never wake up. I know the feeling though. When I was little, my worst nightmares were always those where I knew I was dreaming but I couldn't wake up. I felt so trapped. That stopped when I really got interested in lucid dreaming, and now I wish I could stay in the dreams longer but my problem seems to be just the opposite.

I suppose dream exploration is like any other exploration. There is always risk involved. You don't just float around in a state of bliss, and things don't always go your way.

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Originally Posted by cedward1

Who said you can't feel pain in dreams? As far as I know, you can feel anything in a dream that you can feel in real life, which is good news and bad news I suppose. A lot of us are just reckless enough not to worry about pain.

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I read somewhere that you can’t get hurt in your dreams. Now I realize they probably meant that you won’t have any wounds left when you wake up, not that you can’t be wounded. That explains it! Is there any way to avoid pain in the dreams anyway? Even though it’s not real it feels real. I’m not a big fan on pain.

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You don't always have perfect control in lucid dreams. My dream control isn't very good, but I prefer exploration to manipulation anyway. You can learn better control over time.

Of course you aren't going to get stuck in a lucid dream and never wake up. I know the feeling though. When I was little, my worst nightmares were always those where I knew I was dreaming but I couldn't wake up. I felt so trapped. That stopped when I really got interested in lucid dreaming, and now I wish I could stay in the dreams longer but my problem seems to be just the opposite.

I suppose dream exploration is like any other exploration. There is always risk involved. You don't just float around in a state of bliss, and things don't always go your way.

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This might sound childish, but how can you be sure? I mean really sure. If someone fails to wake, he won't be able to tell about it.

In dreams,lucid or otherwise, we can feel everything we feel in waking life - unfortunately including pain.Fortunately, none of it is real - it's all just in your head.

This also means it responds to your thoughts.

Dreams operate according to what are called Dream Schemas. Basically this means that if you get frightened your dream will become a nightmare. This is one of the things you must understand about lucid dreaming.

But when you fully understand that it's only a dream and that even though you can feel pain nothing can really hurt you (i's only an illusion of pain - just as everything you see in a dream is also an illusion). When you fully understand that then you also understand that there's nothing to be afraid of.

If you fall from high in the (dream) air and smash into the (dream) ground you won't be hurt. Your dream body might, but that just means you'll start a new dream or dream that you smashed through into another world or you'll just wake up.

Once you've understood these things then nothing will frighten you in a dream anymore and if you find yourself flying you'll know that falling can't harm you at all. Nothing can. So don't be afraid of anything (it's the fear that causes the illusion of pain) - instead leap happily toward danger and know that you'll be unharmed.

Dreams are real, to your brain. That means your brain will interpret sensorial input as real input, and not internal input. In simple words, in a world you can feel the sun in your skin, and so can you feel a knife in your arm. This is real, just like real life, because there are the same electrical signals. Just the source is different.

There is no possible way to get physically hurt in a dream (lucid or not), because your ego body (your dream body) is something else than your real body. Many lucid dreamers killed themselves, stroked themselves with swords and axes, and they always returned to tell the story. Besides, there is not a single report of someone not being able to wake up from their dreams. At most, you can dream for around 1 hour, but after that, your REM cycle ends, and the dream ends. There are no exceptions of dreams lasting 5 hours or a day. It's just not how the body works, no matter the dream content.

I'm hoping you already guessed (even if at a slow dimension) what led to that kind of experience: fear. Emotions play a very important role because they affect your Dream schemas. If you are afraid of spiders, then you can expect spiders to some times show up in your dreams. Especially if you're state of mind is clouded in fear.

Fear in a dream is aceptance of it as real. Which the dream is not. Everything your brain tells you it's real in a dream, it's fake. From what you see, to what you feel or weird. You aren't really being hurt, you just feel it because your brain is trying to reproduce reality. But in the end, you have to remember it's all a dream. A wall, a monster, they are even less solid than wind and dust. When a lucid dreamer can't fly in a dream, or summon an animal, it's exactly like you: they haven't fully "understood" it's a dream, so they aren't confident that they can do anything.

As a last piece of advice, I suggest you to take a read on the dream journals around here. For me, they are more than just original stories: they are sources of inspiration. From the experienced lucid dreamer to the person that started dream recall 4 days ago, they all explore a reality that slowly opens itself for them. We all here strike into this new "reality" in order to overcome our fears, to explore the world, and to discover who we are. If you experienced such a vivid lucid dream to the point where you were afraid of not waking up, imagine if you had a positive and fearless mindset: you would (and will) be overwhelmed by the feeling of joy :)

I'm going to be afraid to be afraid tonight!
Thanks for all the answers, you are all so friendly and well informed. I feel a bit calmer now.

I’m not afraid of dying in my dream, I get that it’s just a dream and all that. I'm worried that I won’t find my way back to my physical body, and if I’m away for too long it will die and I will be trapped there forever, searching for something that no longer exist. I mean, a lot of people die while sleeping.. :paranoid:

I know it’s silly, I just can’t get these thoughts out of my head. Well, I’m going to bed now. I hope I dream normal safe dreams. If I don't come back, you’ll know what has happened. Wish me luck!

If your in a dream and you never wake up, its called a coma. Or maybe your dead and in heaven, depending on your beliefs

I'm not dead or trapped somewhere, and I didn't have any scary lucid dreams - as far as I can remember.

Is there any way to force myself to wake up while having a lucid dream? So I don’t have to panic next time.

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Originally Posted by Darknis133

If your in a dream and you never wake up, its called a coma. Or maybe your dead and in heaven, depending on your beliefs

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Yeah, so I figured. Not a very comforting thought.

It is true that people die in their sleep, but it is generally due to a heart attack, blood clot or something similar, people don't just die - especially at a young age. I guess what Im trying to say is, if you are healthy you have absolutely nothing to worry about. be confident in your waking life and that wil transfer to your dreams. Happy dreaming!

Wait - I'm not sure I understand. Do you believe that when you're dreaming you actually leave your physical body?

If that is true (which I do not believe) then wouldn't you run exactly the same risk every time you dream? Why would lucid dreams be any more dangerous?

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Originally Posted by Insikt

Is there any way to force myself to wake up while having a lucid dream?

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If I want to wake up I usually ignore my dream body and try to roll around and move my physical body. Another method is to kill yourself in a dream, but it's not always pleasant. You really have nothing to fear though because your physical body is always with you, so you never have to search for it.

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Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Wait - I'm not sure I understand. Do you believe that when you're dreaming you actually leave your physical body? If that is true (which I do not believe) then wouldn't you run exactly the same risk every time you dream? Why would lucid dreams be any more dangerous?

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No… that’s not what I meant. It’s so hard to explain..
Of course I don’t leave my physical body. I’m still laying there in my bed all the time. But I do enter a different world while dreaming, a world created by my brain, right? And in this world, I do stuff like running and jumping, which my physical body is not doing. So in a way, I do leave my physical body, but only inside my brain. (I’m so glad that no one knows who I am right now haha)
And the world I enter is defiantly not this world, because I’m quite sure I can’t fly here. While I dream, lucid or not, my brainworld is as real to me as as this world. So basically what I worry about is being trapped inside my brainworld, to somehow not be able to get back. I mean I tried – so hard, but still I was trapped there. Scary.
No, I don’t think that lucid dreams are more dangerous than normal dreams. I don’t think that dreams are dangerous, not really – I’m just…worried.
But when I’m lucid I know that I’m dreaming. I am aware of that I’m inside my brain and that’s what freaks me out. I feel like I’m not supposed to be there. In normal dreams I’m also in my brainworld, of course, only I’m blissfully unaware of it. I realize that I was dreaming when I wake up, but then there is no reason to panic because I know that I did get back.

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Originally Posted by Duncan

It is true that people die in their sleep, but it is generally due to a heart attack, blood clot or something similar, people don't just die - especially at a young age. I guess what Im trying to say is, if you are healthy you have absolutely nothing to worry about. be confident in your waking life and that wil transfer to your dreams. Happy dreaming!

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Thank you, I’ll keep that in mind. Are there any statistics of witch state of sleep people are most likely to die in?

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Originally Posted by Oreoboy1996

If I want to wake up I usually ignore my dream body and try to roll around and move my physical body. Another method is to kill yourself in a dream, but it's not always pleasant. You really have nothing to fear though because your physical body is always with you, so you never have to search for it.

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How can you controll your real body while sleeping? That would be good to know, then I could just slap myself and wake up. What's unpleasant about killing yourself in dreams, does it hurt?

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Originally Posted by Insikt

How can you controll your real body while sleeping? That would be good to know, then I could just slap myself and wake up. What's unpleasant about killing yourself in dreams, does it hurt?

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It's hard for me to explain how to feel your real body. If you can feel it, then you just need to focus on lifting your arms and legs to wake up. You will know it's your real body if it feels like someone is holding down.

Killing yourself in a dream can hurt if you expect it to hurt. I jumped off a building in a dream and it didn't hurt when I hit the ground. I have also shot myself before and there was a sharp pain for a few seconds.

I'm not sure the human mind is capable of sustaining REM sleep for more than an hour or so at a time. There are biological mechanisms controlling this, it isn't just the dream itself. Eventually the body will wake itself up. Now, there seems to be a subjectivity about time within a dream, so it may seem much longer than this. There are people in this forum that have had dreams lasting for "days", but they always wake up.

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Originally Posted by Insikt

No... that's not what I meant. It's so hard to explain..
Of course I don't leave my physical body...

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Ah - thank you for explaining. Now I understand. And I also understand your being afraid after that terrifying experience you described in your 1st post above. Anyone would be scared after that!!

By any chance have you seen Inception? A lot of people have learned some very wrong things from that movie. It deals with lucid dreaming - in a way, but it's also just a fictional movie and it takes great liberties with the truth. There's no such thing as a dream within a dream, and there's no way to ever be trapped within a dream.

Heh - that movie was the introduction to lucid dreaming for a lot of people, which is a good thing, but then when they do an internet search and start discovering that lucid dreaming is real, unfortunately they begin to think these horrible things from the movie are also real. We have to talk a lot of them down from this.

Here is what I want you try at first. Have you ever tried meditation? I think this might help all those feelings you have been experiencing.

Get into a comfortable position like a comfortable chair or crossed legged on the ground. You want to be totally relaxed while staying awake. Close your eyes, then completely clear your mind. Any thoughts you might have just let them float away, that means if you hear any inner voice just genitally make it quieter. Keep doing this for around 30 minutes if you have time, it is basic meditation but its effective. Maybe try to do it before you go to sleep, sort through your feelings. Keep practicing this each time before you go to bed to calm yourself.

So I suggest trying the above and see what kind of results you get. I completely understand the feeling. I use to have a lot of night terrors where I would wake up and be in complete fear like I was sick with the emotion fear and was having an emotional vomit of it. Not saying what you are experiencing is a night terror, just saying I have experienced unpleasant things while sleeping as well. So hope it goes well for you. :D

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Originally Posted by zoth00

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As a last piece of advice, I suggest you to take a read on the dream journals around here. For me, they are more than just original stories: they are sources of inspiration. From the experienced lucid dreamer to the person that started dream recall 4 days ago, they all explore a reality that slowly opens itself for them. We all here strike into this new "reality" in order to overcome our fears, to explore the world, and to discover who we are. If you experienced such a vivid lucid dream to the point where you were afraid of not waking up, imagine if you had a positive and fearless mindset: you would (and will) be overwhelmed by the feeling of joy :)

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I have read some journals now, and it was very interesting. Everyone seemed to enjoy their dreams so much. I get that, it was an amazing experience to fly at the beginning of my dream. What I don’t understand is how you all can be so fearless. Haven’t you ever felt trapped or worried that you won’t find your way back once it’s time to wake up?

I find the phenomenon of sleeping itself frightening. I’ve always had poor dream recalling, so for me the hours of sleep every night has in a way disappeared. I go to sleep, then I wake up and there’s nothing in between. I haven’t really been aware of the “dreamworld” until recently. I’ve known, of course, that people including myself dream at night, but since I don’t remember it I haven’t paid it any attention.

Once you become aware of that you’re dreaming, that you have “left” your real body totally unprotected in your bed, how can you not feel worried about that? Someone could stand next to your bed with a giant axe preparing to separate your head from your body, and you would still be flying around happily in your dream, unable to protect yourself. Your house could for example be on fire. Don’t you think about that at all while having LDs?

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Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Ah - thank you for explaining. Now I understand. And I also understand your being afraid after that terrifying experience you described in your 1st post above. Anyone would be scared after that!!
By any chance have you seen Inception? A lot of people have learned some very wrong things from that movie. It deals with lucid dreaming - in a way, but it's also just a fictional movie and it takes great liberties with the truth. There's no such thing as a dream within a dream, and there's no way to ever be trapped within a dream.
Heh - that movie was the introduction to lucid dreaming for a lot of people, which is a good thing, but then when they do an internet search and start discovering that lucid dreaming is real, unfortunately they begin to think these horrible things from the movie are also real. We have to talk a lot of them down from this.

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I haven’t seen inception myself, but a friend of mine have. He talked a lot about it, something that you can enter other people’s dreams and make them tell you their secrets and stuff like that. So your right, it has probably influenced my feelings about dreams.

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Originally Posted by pepsibluefan

Here is what I want you try at first. Have you ever tried meditation? I think this might help all those feelings you have been experiencing.

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Feels good to know I’m not the only one being afraid. Okey, thanks for the suggestion. Some questions:
1. What will happen with me and my mind? Will it be like lucid dreaming or is it safe? (I know dreaming is safe too, but you get what I mean.)
2. Does it have to be quiet around me? There are a lot of loud noises in my house, do I have to find some earplugs or something?
3. Lights on or off?

** Oops! I was responding to the post just before your last one!

No. Because we have a built-in alarm system - movement in your room if there shouldn't be any will wake you up. Plus it's no more likely that someone will sneak in to kill you or your house will catch fire while you're sleeping than any unexpected accident can happen at any time. You seem to have anxieties about sleep.

Just realizing that you've slept thousands of times through your life and nothing has happened yet should help. As you say, you dream several times every night, and you always woke up. You do understand that this fear is completely irrational, right?

It might help you to read a book about the neurobiology of sleep. You dream mostly while in REM sleep, which happens only at certain times, and it can only last for a short while - up to maybe an hour toward the end of the night. And actually we all wake up briefly at the end of each REM period, but only for a moment and only slightly - we usually don't remember it in the morning. And at the end of the night - we always wake up. There's no more possibility of not being able to wake from a dream than there is of makig a face and it getting stuck like that - these are just fairy tales grandmothers used to tell kids to frighten them.

My thoughts based on your problems and what others have said.

Dreaming is a natural physiological, psychological, evolutionary (so on so forth) there's no way dreaming will kill you.
You will never become lost in a dream world. There are fixed physical limitations to how long you dream, sleep cycles only last 90 minutes and much less than 90 minutes of that is spent dreaming.
As for unintentional waking, focus on the fact you are in your bed asleep, turn your attention to how it feels like to be lying in bed. Or just close your dream eyes and then open them again in a few seconds, you'll probably find you're opening your physical eyes.

Always remember you are the master of your 'dreamworld' :)

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Originally Posted by Darkmatters

** Oops! I was responding to the post just before your last one!
No. Because we have a built-in alarm system - movement in your room if there shouldn't be any will wake you up. Plus it's no more likely that someone will sneak in to kill you or your house will catch fire while you're sleeping than any unexpected accident can happen at any time.

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I don’t know if I trust that alarm system. People sometimes enter my room while I’m sleeping and that doesn’t wake me up. How could my sleeping body possibly tell a friendly person from a unfriendly? Also, I find it very difficult to wake up in the morning. I have four alarm clocks and I still oversleep sometimes. You’re right about that it’s unlikely that anything will happen to me just because I’m asleep. But still, I can't get the fact that it can happen out of my head.

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You seem to have anxieties about sleep. Just realizing that you've slept thousands of times through your life and nothing has happened yet should help. As you say, you dream several times every night, and you always woke up. You do understand that this fear is completely irrational, right?

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I’ve never been anxieties about sleep before. I haven’t even thought about it until I started reading about it. Yeah, I guess it is irrational to be afraid of it, but that doesn’t make me less afraid. I don’t even know why this freaks me out so much. I like mountain climbing and play soccer and stuff like that, and I don’t have any phobias or anything. I'm not usally a frightend person.

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Originally Posted by Insikt

I haven’t seen inception myself, but a friend of mine have. He talked a lot about it, something that you can enter other people’s dreams and make them tell you their secrets and stuff like that. So your right, it has probably influenced my feelings about dreams.


Feels good to know I’m not the only one being afraid. Okey, thanks for the suggestion. Some questions:
1. What will happen with me and my mind? Will it be like lucid dreaming or is it safe? (I know dreaming is safe too, but you get what I mean.)
2. Does it have to be quiet around me? There are a lot of loud noises in my house, do I have to find some earplugs or something?
3. Lights on or off?

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1. When you meditate all that happens is everything goes quiet and peaceful, there is no dreaming what so ever (Unless you fall asleep during it.) You will find a sense of calm and self center and total relaxation.

2. In my opinion I would prefer things to be quiet so you have an easier time letting thoughts go. If you don't feel comfortable with it you can do it also when people are around, once you train your mind to block things out it will make it easier. You don't need ear plugs, only if the sound is really bothering you that much. When you hear the sound don't think about it like for example "What is that sound?" it takes practice and it will get to the point when you hear it you will think of nothing but "...."

3. Either or, whatever you feel more comfortable with. :)

If you have more questions just ask, I am here for total support and so is everyone else. :shadewink:

Ok. That doesn’t sound too bad. I’ll defiantly try it.

It is very nice of you all to take time to answer my paranoid questions. I'm so glad i found this site. :happyface:

I may be new here.. But I'm going to kind of go against the other opinions here. Forget lucid dreaming for now, you're having some incredibly irrational paranoia that is not normal. Dreams can not kill you. Yes, people die in their sleep- from other causes. There is always a reason for death, but not dreams. I'd talk to someone else other than a forum for now about your fears. If they don't dissipate shortly, a doctor could always prescribe something to help you sleep.

For now, realize that your mood impacts your dreams. You're on this forum talking about lucid dreaming and your only experience is frightening you. Forget about that. Just think happy thoughts before going to sleep and you'll be fine.

Whait… are you telling me to go to a dream-shrink? :shock:

I’m not crazy or anything. That thing I wrote about “paranoid questions” - I wasn’t being serious. I am not paranoid or schizophrenic and I don’t need any drugs or stuff like that. Sure my fear is irrational. All fears are irrational - until they become real. Is it really that weird that I don’t like to leave my body unprotected for eight hours a day, and on top of that being aware of it while being in that state without being able to do anything about it?

:lol: Well personally I wouldn't go so far as to say you need to see a shrink, but I will agree that it's your irrational fears that are making it impossible for you to enjoy the lucid state.

And I'm afraid that unless you can gt those fears under control any lucid dreams you have will become nightmares - your dreams reflect your inner state, and if that state is fear then you;ll have nightmares. A lot of people use lucid dreaming as a sort of therapy - because in dreams you can face your fears with no real danger - you know if you fall off a cliff or get eaten by a bear nothing is REALLY going to happen to you, and you'll wake up and everything will be fine, and then because you were able to face those fears in a dream you begin to get over them in waking life as well.

But since your fear seems to be about sleeping and dreaming, that makes things tricky in your case. And unfortunately it seems becoming lucid only makes it worse for you. We can't stress enough that it's all about your attitude - you need to go in with no fear or at least prepared to face your fears. If you bring a phobia in with you that you're not prepared to face squarely then you'll probably keep having the same kind of experiences you did.

If on the other hand you're ready to face it, or maybe soon you can work up the courage to face it, then you should be able to make some headway and beat it eventually.

Does it really not help at all to realize that you sleep every night ,and dream several times every night, and so far nothing bad has happened? Nobody has crept into your room to kill you - your house hasn't burned down etc.

And on top of that - nothing bad happened when you had your lucid dream. You were afraid - that was all. But you woke up to find that there was nothing to be afraid of. It was only a dream.

i have had some scary expieriences in LD, i find it easier to absorbe and correct. for example:-
if i started falling from the sky at a very fast pace i would not think of that as a "bad" thing. i would accept the fact im falling and think how can i change this, i would start thinking of things that fall e.g a plane crashing, then i would think how would the falling normally stop, pulling up! i would then think "ok im in a plane" and put my arms out in front as if to grab the stick and pull up, the thought of what you are doing there and then should alter what is actually happening in the dream!

i was thrown off a VERY large cliff into water in a dream and my first feeling was fear, then i realised the person that done it would not do it if he didnt know what he was doing, so i fell for a while screaming then as i hut the water i woke up and the first thing i thought was "i wanna do it again"

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Originally Posted by Darkmatters

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Couldn’t I just learn to “block out” the lucid dreams? (Is that even possible?) I’ve done some research and found out that a certain amount of alcohol every night reduces lucid dreams . But that doesn’t seem like a particularly good solution for reasons I’m sure you can understand.
Now that I haven’t had any dreams that I remember for a couple of days I’m not as afraid as I was before. And I like it to stay this way. If I don’t have any more LDs I’ll probably be able to repress this experience after a while and go back to normal or something.

Well… yes and no. I does help to think about that no one have slaughtered me in my sleep yet. But the fact that it can happen, even though it’s not likely is still not very pleasant. I mean, yes – it is just as likely to happen while I’m awake, but at least then I will be able to defend myself. If my house catch on fire when I’m awake I simply walk out and dile 112. If I’m asleep I’ll burn to death or at least be deap-fried.
Honestly, I don’t understand how you can not find this terrifying or at least a bit scary.

Besides, if someone is afraid of for example bridges, people will tell him that the fear is completely irrational just because a bridge hasn’t collapsed under him yet. But bridges do collapse, and people are burnt to death while sleeping. Unlikely- but it does happen. I’m not trying to be impossible here, I’m just trying to explain why I’m afraid to prevent more people from assuming I’m insane.

Lol ok, I understand!!

For me and for most people keeping the doors locked and having a smoke detector is enough, but I know irrational fears aren't so easy to lay to rest. If you WOULD talk to a therapist about it I doubt they would even recommend drugs or consider you at all crazy - they'd just talk to you.

But if you just want to not have lucid dreams then that's one way to solve the problem!

Normally people don't have lucid dreams unless they try to - most of us have to try for a long time before we can make it happen (no - I'm not jealous - really! :paranoid: well ok maybe a little). I don't remember if you tried to have a lucid dream or if it just happened spontaneously - but in any event you did say you were talking to someone about Inception recently, and sometimes that's all it takes to cause someone;s first lucid is to hear about it or talk about it.

I'd say the best thing you can do to prevent lucid dreams now is to just not try to have any.

Just sleep like normal. Don't think about your dreams much - one of the key steps to becoming lucid is to increase your dream recall, which we do by keeping a dream journal - which helps us to remember dreams and keeps them forefront in the mind. So if you stop thinking about dreams that should hep too. (Lol though that's kind of like telling somebody "Quick! Don't think about elephants!".. ) :cheeky: :lol:

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Originally Posted by Insikt

Couldn’t I just learn to “block out” the lucid dreams? (Is that even possible?) I’ve done some research and found out that a certain amount of alcohol every night reduces lucid dreams . But that doesn’t seem like a particularly good solution for reasons I’m sure you can understand.
Now that I haven’t had any dreams that I remember for a couple of days I’m not as afraid as I was before. And I like it to stay this way. If I don’t have any more LDs I’ll probably be able to repress this experience after a while and go back to normal or something.

Well… yes and no. I does help to think about that no one have slaughtered me in my sleep yet. But the fact that it can happen, even though it’s not likely is still not very pleasant. I mean, yes – it is just as likely to happen while I’m awake, but at least then I will be able to defend myself. If my house catch on fire when I’m awake I simply walk out and dile 112. If I’m asleep I’ll burn to death or at least be deap-fried.
Honestly, I don’t understand how you can not find this terrifying or at least a bit scary.

Besides, if someone is afraid of for example bridges, people will tell him that the fear is completely irrational just because a bridge hasn’t collapsed under him yet. But bridges do collapse, and people are burnt to death while sleeping. Unlikely- but it does happen. I’m not trying to be impossible here, I’m just trying to explain why I’m afraid to prevent more people from assuming I’m insane.

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We're all going to die eventually... but if you're living a life in fear, then what's the point of living?

You can't avoid dreams and go through life afraid of sleep. Get over it and conquer your fears. They're called nightmares, they happen. You have to accept this in order to alleviate your fears.

Lol this whole situation is so ironical I can't help myself from laughing. I'm having a huge Catch-22 moment right now..

I haven’t tried do have LDs (how can you even “try” to dream, that doesn’t make any sense) but I’ve read about it and kept a dreamjurnal. I'll definatly stop that right away. It’s not like I’m some kind of superdreamer, I’ve just had one LD haha.

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Originally Posted by Darkmatters

If you WOULD talk to a therapist about it I doubt they would even recommend drugs or consider you at all crazy - they'd just talk to you.

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Oh great… now you think I need a shrink too… *repeating “I am not crazy, I am not crazy” loud to myself.*

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Originally Posted by cessna

We're all going to die eventually... but if you're living a life in fear, then what's the point of living?

You can't avoid dreams and go through life afraid of sleep. Get over it and conquer your fears. They're called nightmares, they happen. You have to accept this in order to alleviate your fears.

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Well, it's not like I want to be afraid. I'm just finding it hard to stop.

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Originally Posted by Insikt

Well, it's not like I want to be afraid. I'm just finding it hard to stop.

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well of course. if it wasn't hard then there would be no fear. but especially in the case of something that you must do every day, you can't avoid it. hard or not you have to find a way to face your fears and get rid of them.

i read and responded to this topic just before going to sleep last night. made me think of some of the nightmares i've had. going to sleep, i knew i was going to have one because that was the last thing on my mind. but instead of being afraid i was thinking of past nightmares and how i could conquer them. not coincidentally, i had a 'nightmare' last night. it wasn't lucid, but i was aware that it was a nightmare. but i wasn't afraid, and i went searching for the cause of the nightmare (forget what it was). instead of being a bad dream, it was a cool one.

so many long posts, didnt read all of them to the end

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Originally Posted by zoth00

When a lucid dreamer can't fly in a dream, or summon an animal, it's exactly like you: they haven't fully "understood" it's a dream, so they aren't confident that they can do anything.)

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This, and this a thousand times. That does not mean it is easy, i mean, you might know it is a dream but it might seem too real for you so that you wont let yourself do what you want. I.e. in dreams i am so totally confident that there is no way i can be hurt, that i think that is the reason i am never hurt, though if i try to fly, it still requires some effort, because for me that seems unreal even inside the dream, it is weird to explain, but at the end it is all about you and what you believe, sincerely believe, not just "knowing" it, because sometimes ppl know things but still dont trust their knowledge =P

Irik, have you tried the meditation I've mentioned? Also I want to say that I think you're really brave, and I don't think its silly. We all have something we are afraid of. The fear comes from the unknown, lucid dreaming and all this is new to you and it is a big unknown to you. It is just programmed into us as humens. I will admit that I was a bit frightened myself becoming lucid. That is why I still fail at it to this day.

Well, what I am I afraid of you ask? Maybe not so much the lucid dream itself as it is the WILD technique. The other techniques don't really work for me and I think the only real way is a WILD. I heard stories while attempting WILD you see some very freaky stuff and even feel it. Even though I know its all in my head its still freaky, I don't want to see all that stuff.

It is much like watching a horror movie, or playing a scary video game *Amnesia: the dark decent comes to mind. Still can't play it.* Even though we know inside its not real, it is very freaky to us. You seem like a very smart and brave girl.

I don't share this with a lot of people, but when I get scared in a dream I have a special power suit I put on and it gives me super powers. When I put it on I feel invincible and almost god like. I use that as a protection, and I know anything ugely that comes my way gets a face pounding to the other side of the universe while going through a bunch of planets.

So tell me if you used that meditation technique :).

You need to learn to take control...stop seeing yourself as this victim. Anything "could" happen, what is the point of constantly worrying about all the bad things that could happen in life? Sure, the plane you're flying on could crash, and if you walk outside in a storm you could get struck by lightning...but what are the chances? And how is being afraid of such things helpful at all? Arm yourself with knowledge, not fear. This is anxiety 101, stop trying to deny that you apparently have anxiety issues and instead learn to confront them. The first step in overcoming a problem is acknowledging that you have a problem, otherwise you'll remain in denial and overcome nothing.

There is a lot of good advice in this thread already. Though I want to add that REM isn't the only stage of sleep where dreaming occurs, and that dreams do not necessarily have this absolute physical time limit on them that coincides with the end of REM. A skilled lucid dreamer can learn to extend the dream beyond REM.

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Originally Posted by pepsibluefan

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Hello again! Yes, I did in fact try it. At first, it was impossible to relax. It took me ages to find a comfortable position, and when I finally did there was always something itching. I also found it very hard to shut out the noises around me so I ended up using earplugs even though you said it wasn’t necessary. But when I finally sat still and after a while, didn’t think about anything at all. This didn’t last long but it was still very interesting in a way.
Then my heart started beating really loud. I don’t know if it actually was beating louder than usual, it’s possible that I could just hear it better since all other noises were shut out by those earplugs. However, I started thinking about it and then I started thinking about how I should not think about it. I wasn’t afraid, but my mind was spinning again and I decided to stop.

I liked meditating, but I’m still not quite sure what it’s good for?

Yes, that is exactly what I’ve been trying to say! You know that your fear is irrational in a way, but that doesn’t make you less afraid of whatever you’re afraid of. Hmm… that is actually really smart. I guess it helps you remember that you are in control, right? Thanks a lot for the help!

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Originally Posted by nina

You need to learn to take control...stop seeing yourself as this victim.

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I do not think that is my problem actually. I’m sure I could improve that too, but my biggest issue right now is that I’m afraid of not having control. To not be able to defend myself. I wrote about this earlier, but in short words I don’t like the fact that I have to leave my body unprotected for eight hours I day. To not be able to control its fate during that time, because in “trapped” in my dreams

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Anything "could" happen, what is the point of constantly worrying about all the bad things that could happen in life? Sure, the plane you're flying on could crash, and if you walk outside in a storm you could get struck by lightning...but what are the chances? And how is being afraid of such things helpful at all? Arm yourself with knowledge, not fear. This is anxiety 101, stop trying to deny that you apparently have anxiety issues and instead learn to confront them. The first step in overcoming a problem is acknowledging that you have a problem, otherwise you'll remain in denial and overcome nothing.

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Yes, you are right. I guess I do have anxiety issues, but I like to point out that I’m rarely afraid of things usually and I don’t have any phobias. I don’t see myself as a victim.

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There is a lot of good advice in this thread already. Though I want to add that REM isn't the only stage of sleep where dreaming occurs, and that dreams do not necessarily have this absolute physical time limit on them that coincides with the end of REM. A skilled lucid dreamer can learn to extend the dream beyond REM.

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It really is. I’m quite amazed of how much you all know about this science that I been totally unaware of until recently.

Do you live alone, Insikt? If so, perhaps you could get a good guard dog. I have a German shepherd/lab mix, and I never worry about someone attacking me while I'm asleep. A good watchdog could also wake you up if cases of emergency such as a house fire. Then when you become lucid, you can think about your physical body and know that it is safely guarded so that you can enjoy the dreamworld with peace of mind.

It's a simple idea if you are a dog person like me.

Insikt, that is really great to hear. Keep practicing that meditation and it will get more easier and with enough practice you can go into deeper meditation. Then further along the line with even more practice you can even have lucid dreams while meditating if you wanted.

What does this help me with? It should help you to become more calm and easier to deal with the problem you're certainly experiencing. If you don't take Yoga, you should try as both meditation and Yoga help on this issue. Just meditation can work for now if you don't want to get into basic yoga. Meditation helps you learn more about yourself, and you can learn control from this. I hope this works out for you. ^_^

Want a feeling of better security while sleeping? Lock your door and window, get a fire alarm, and leave a baseball bat next to your bed. I think you'll be safe. Unless terrorists attack from the air...

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Originally Posted by cedward1

Do you live alone, Insikt? If so, perhaps you could get a good guard dog.
…

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I live with four people at the moment, and I don’t think that the others will approve. But thanks anyway, if I ever have to live alone I might do that.

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Originally Posted by pepsibluefan

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Then further along the line with even more practice you can even have lucid dreams while meditating if you wanted.

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I will defiantly do that, even if it doesn’t help it’s nice to take time to relax once in a while.

Question: Can I wake up if I want to if that happens?

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Originally Posted by cessna

Want a feeling of better security while sleeping? Lock your door and window, get a fire alarm, and leave a baseball bat next to your bed. I think you'll be safe. Unless terrorists attack from the air...

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I get that you think I'm paraniod and all, but please don’t make fun of me. I’m not writing here because I think it’s funny.

Can I wake up if I wanted to if that happens? I will be honest, I really don't know since its different for each person. But you know most people on here have a hard time keeping in a dream once they become lucid and will start to wake up. That is why we have tutorials of how to stabilize a dream when you become lucid. Although I am starting to believe myself that you make the laws of physics in that universe.

My question: Have you had any more lucid dreams since your last experience?

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Originally Posted by pepsibluefan

Can I wake up if I wanted to if that happens? I will be honest, I really don't know since its different for each person. But you know most people on here have a hard time keeping in a dream once they become lucid and will start to wake up. That is why we have tutorials of how to stabilize a dream when you become lucid. Although I am starting to believe myself that you make the laws of physics in that universe.

My question: Have you had any more lucid dreams since your last experience?

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How does that help? Keep your metaphysics (I have nothing against metaphysics on it's on merits but it's not appropriate here) out of the thread, we're trying to reassure her, don't start saying we create dream 'universe' physics.

@Inskit; you have the ability to awaken from any dream you become lucid in, you will always be empowered in a dream that you are aware is a dream.

But does it take a lot of practice happen? I mean, it's not likely that it will happen to me since I recently tried meditating for the first time, right?

No, I haven't had any lucids. I haven't had any dreams at all that I can remember. I'm starting to calm down about this whole thing. After having my dream I was really scared and kind of expected every night from that day to be like that, and that made me think about the whole leaving my body unprotected thing too and that freaked me out as well. But now that I've slept several times without anything happening I'm thinking that maybe I don't have to worry about that anymore. Most people don't even have lucids so why should it happen to me again?

I'm still not comfortable with leaving my body and all but I guess I'm just going to have to learn to live with it.

@Ctharlhie It is just to help her gain confidence if she does lucid dream again. I think its totally appropriate considering how she expressed the feeling of lack of control. I am going to keep this out of the discussion though. I also like to note I got it from reading BillyBobs tutorials.

@Isikt It is highly unlikely that it will happen to you the first time, it is nothing to worry about. You're right, most people rarely have lucid dreams. (The people who don't try to go lucid) I am sure you have nothing to worry about, I hope you consider staying around dream views though. ^_^ We are here for support.

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Originally Posted by Insikt

I get that you think I'm paraniod and all, but please don’t make fun of me. I’m not writing here because I think it’s funny.

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I'm sorry, but that comment was not to make fun, but rather point out the irrationality of your fears (as most phobias are irrational). If your door is locked and you have a smoke detector, please explain to me what can possibly happen to you that couldn't have happened while you were awake?

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Originally Posted by pepsibluefan

@Ctharlhie It is just to help her gain confidence if she does lucid dream again. I think its totally appropriate considering how she expressed the feeling of lack of control. I am going to keep this out of the discussion though. I also like to note I got it from reading BillyBobs tutorials.

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Sorry I misunderstood, I thought you were bringing some mystical ideas to the discussion but if you're referring to stuff like expectation effect then cool.

Hey Insikt, if you are religious praying kind of works to sleep calmly, i am just saying xP i guess it is like some sort of meditation, well, imo it is silly but i just want to help, and that is how i slept calmly when i was a kid and i had nightmares, lol. Btw, im not religious now
btw, how have your nights went since the horrid experience?

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Originally Posted by cessna

I'm sorry, but that comment was not to make fun, but rather point out the irrationality of your fears (as most phobias are irrational). If your door is locked and you have a smoke detector, please explain to me what can possibly happen to you that couldn't have happened while you were awake?

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Dude, as long as i know pointing out the irrationality of a phobia, never helps, even if the person is rational and everything, i guess it is like with the videogames, they still scare the shit out of you even if they are, duh videogames that you play in your pc xD

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Originally Posted by pepsibluefan

*Amnesia: the dark decent comes to mind. Still can't play it.* Even though we know inside its not real, it is very freaky to us.

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I so love that game, i cant play more than 5 mins atm though, i freak way to much, i have to stop xD whoever finishes that game is fking awesome. I dont know why irrational fears still work, and so damn much XD

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Originally Posted by Howlgram

Dude, as long as i know pointing out the irrationality of a phobia, never helps, even if the person is rational and everything, i guess it is like with the videogames, they still scare the shit out of you even if they are, duh videogames that you play in your pc xD

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Dude, on the contrary, I believe the realization of an irrationality is the start to overcoming it. Many people will 'admit' they have an irrational phobia, but deep down they still have reasons for believing it is truly rational (which I believe is what is going on here). The OP keeps asking for ways around her fear rather than just facing it and extinguishing the fear. I'm sorry, but in a situation like this, finding ways around the fear is a terrible idea. This is something you have to do every day. You're going to have to confront your fear and once you get rid of it, you'll be happy you did.

She is abandoning lucids for now because she is scared of them, even though initially she had hoped to achieve them. This isn't necessarily a bad thing... stay away at first until you can overcome your fears. But don't abandon your goal just because you ran into a hiccup.

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Originally Posted by cessna

I'm sorry, but in a situation like this, finding ways around the fear is a terrible idea. This is something you have to do every day. You're going to have to confront your fear and once you get rid of it, you'll be happy you did.

She is abandoning lucids for now because she is scared of them, even though initially she had hoped to achieve them. This isn't necessarily a bad thing... stay away at first until you can overcome your fears. But don't abandon your goal just because you ran into a hiccup.

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well, yeah, as long as you are not insistent only on being rational :P

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Originally Posted by pepsibluefan

Isikt It is highly unlikely that it will happen to you the first time, it is nothing to worry about. You're right, most people rarely have lucid dreams. (The people who don't try to go lucid) I am sure you have nothing to worry about, I hope you consider staying around dream views though. ^_^ We are here for support.

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I’m going to try the ostrich approach so I’m afraid I have to stay away from DV. I might come back after a while if it gets better though. :)

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Originally Posted by cessna

I'm sorry, but that comment was not to make fun, but rather point out the irrationality of your fears (as most phobias are irrational). If your door is locked and you have a smoke detector, please explain to me what can possibly happen to you that couldn't have happened while you were awake?

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Ok, I must have got it wrong then. It’s only that it has already been pointed out twelve times in this thread that my fear is irrational. I get it.
So you think all people that die in their sleep lives without fire alarm and locks? I’m not saying that it’s at all likely, but you can’t tell me that I’m perfectly safe if I lock my window and expect me to believe you.

Besides, who decides whether a fear is rational or not? There is no certain limit where rational fears are separated from irrational. A fear is a fear, whether it’s irrational or not is a matter of interpretation.

I get that you are just trying to help, thank you for that. I’m sorry if I sound unfriendly. It is not my purpose, I’m just having a really bad day.

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Originally Posted by Howlgram

Hey Insikt, if you are religious praying kind of works to sleep calmly, i am just saying xP i guess it is like some sort of meditation, well, imo it is silly but i just want to help, and that is how i slept calmly when i was a kid and i had nightmares, lol. Btw, im not religious now

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No, I’m not religious .

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btw, how have your nights went since the horrid experience?

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It has taken forever to fall asleep so I’ve been kind of tired the last days but otherwise I’m fine. No dreams or anything.

I mean no offense to the OP, but this thread is just an eye opener how some people will continue to choose ignorance over awareness because of fear. In other words, for some, it's true that ignorance is bliss. It's a little surprising to those of us who seek more awareness in or waking and dreaming worlds, but to each his or her own. It feels strange saying this...but I wish you luck in continuing to remain unaware that you are asleep.

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Originally Posted by Insikt

Besides, who decides whether a fear is rational or not? There is no certain limit where rational fears are separated from irrational. A fear is a fear, whether it's irrational or not is a matter of interpretation.

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No, there's a definite line between rational and irrational. If you're talking about people dying in their sleep from heart attacks or strokes - that can happen just as well when you're awake and has absolutely nothing to do with dreaming.

But if you really believe that your spirit leaves your body when you're dreaming and that it might not be able to get back somehow - that's completely irrational.

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Originally Posted by nina

I mean no offense to the OP, but this thread is just an eye opener how some people will continue to choose ignorance over awareness because of fear. In other words, for some, it's true that ignorance is bliss. It's a little surprising to those of us who seek more awareness in or waking and dreaming worlds, but to each his or her own. It feels strange saying this...but I wish you luck in continuing to remain unaware that you are asleep.

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Non taken.

Awareness of what? I did seek awareness, I had a lucid dream and I came back with fear and knowledge of that lucid dreaming is nothing I like. What is there to gain for me in trying to lucid again? What can I find - what can I learn about myself that is so impossible to learn during the day?
I’m sure you’ve all learned a lot from your dreams, gotten to know yourselves better. But dreaming is not magic, answers don’t just appear from nowhere. You already had all the answers your dream gave you, they were there all the time, only you couldn’t make the connection. That is what dreams do, they help you put the pieces that you already have together so that you can understand them. But that could just as well been done from thinking.

I think a lot. Once a year I go to my summerhouse in the country all alone. I spend a week there, just thinking and writing and looking out over the lake. My friends and family think I’m crazy. Why would I want to be all alone in a cottage for a week, missing all the great parties? I tell them that I miss them a lot and it gets a bit boring but I have to do it to get rid of all my stress. But in fact, I value this week alone more than all the parties in the world.

Dreaming may be the most effective way for you to find your answers. But that doesn’t mean it’s the only way - or even the most effective way for all of us. There are many ways to seek wisdom, non better than the other. It is easy to assume that your way is the best, just because it works for you. But in the end, all seeking has the same purpose and should therefore be valued the same.
For me, trying to have more lucids wouldn’t be seeking. It would be self-destructive.
I guess I’m a thinker- not a dreamer.

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You already had all the answers your dream gave you, they were there all the time, only you couldn’t make the connection. That is what dreams do, they help you put the pieces that you already have together so that you can understand them. But that could just as well been done from thinking.

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Yes and no.

I wouldn't say the subconscious exactly "has all the answers", but it does hold those things (memories, thoughts etc) that we've repressed from conscious knowledge, so it definitely can be very helpful to get in contact with it. However you can't really do that through conscious thought. In dreams is an excellent way. Probably the only other way would be through therapy - another person can see things about us that we're unable to see ourselves. Dreams do show us those things though. If you're adept at interpreting dreams or if you can attain lucidity and aren't afraid to face your "inner demons" you can get very useful therapeutic value from lucidity.

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Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Yes and no. The subconscious does already have all the answers, it's true, but conscious thinking can't get to them all.
…
Where did you ever get the notion that you might not be able to wake up from your dreams? It goes against all scientific knowledge - it sounds like some medieval religious belief.

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Bold: I do not think that is true. The subconscious play a big part in our lives, often bigger than we are aware of. But I do not think that there is a locked door between our subconscious and our conscious minds, a door that is only open to us in our sleep. I don’t believe that lucid dreaming or regular dreaming is the only way to find awareness or knowledge or whatever one seek. Also, I’d like to point out that I am not planning to stop sleeping or anything. I’m just going to try to avoid to have lucid dreams.

The answer to your question is simply lack of knowledge. I did not know that it was physically impossible, and therefore I found it frightening.

Lol, I changed my post, but I see I was too late. I thought that whole last part sounded a bit unfair. Sorry about that.

But you're showing another lack of knowledge if you believe that all unconscious material is available to conscious thought. Repression is a well-known fact. And it accounts for many irrational fears.

Don't worry, I didn't mind :)
Yes, repression is a fact. Only I do not believe that the thoughts and memories that we repress are put in a locked safe-deposit at the bottom of the Atlantic ocean. I do not think it is easy but I believe that you can learn ways to get in touch with your subconscious, other than dreaming.

However, I’m not saying that lucid dreaming is not a great way for you to learn more about your subconscious. I’m just saying that it might not be the best way for me.

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Originally Posted by Insikt

Only I do not believe that the thoughts and memories that we repress are put in a locked safe-deposit at the bottom of the Atlantic ocean.

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Well no - if you understand the way the unconscious mind is structured, they're placed in the Shadow. A good way to visualize that is to think of the conscious mind as a pair of eyes on the front of your head and the repressed material is in a basket on the back of your head, so that no matter which way you turn they're always hidden behind you.

There are ways to pull that material into conscious awareness, such as automatic writing, word-association, and rorschach ink-blot tests, but these thing are best interpreted by a professional - the person who has the repression to begin with will fail to be able to properly interpret their own test results.

But I'll stop arguing with you... :lol:

Lol, you don't have to stop. I find it very interesting to see other persons points of view. But I can understand if you don't want to. After all I might go to America and burn down your house when you're asleep just to prove my point. You know, me being paranoid, insane and schizophrenic and all. :lol:

That basket on the head image was really cool, but then how can our unconscious mind send us signals (or whatever it is that it sends) and give us phobias? Has it drilled a hole through our cranium that somehow is only accessible one-way? No, if something is accessible one way it is also accessible the other way.

Sounds crazy but next time you think you might die in a lucid... Let it happen. Nothing will harm your physical body and you'll most likely wake up either in bed or in a false awakening. Either way you wont be so terrified of dying in one again.

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Originally Posted by Insikt

Lol, you don't have to stop. I find it very interesting to see other persons points of view. But I can understand if you don't want to. After all I might go to America and burn down your house when you're asleep just to prove my point. You know, me being paranoid, insane and schizophrenic and all. :lol:

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:panic: (:lol:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Insikt

That basket on the head image was really cool, but then how can our unconscious mind send us signals (or whatever it is that it sends) and give us phobias? Has it drilled a hole through our cranium that somehow is only accessible one-way? No, if something is accessible one way it is also accessible the other way.

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So then, a woodpecker sitting on the back of your head pecking at your skull isn't real because you can't see it?

You can basically think of them as 2 different minds existing inside the brain that don't communicate with each other very well. Because one communicates with symbols and images (subconscious/unconscious) and the other with words (conscious). The subconscious is like a quiet kid sitting in the back of the classroom thinking to himself, while the conscious is a loud rambunctious kid running around shouting all the time. You don't get to hear the sub-c until the conscious one is sleeping or very quiet - like in meditation.

Unconscious material does affect our behavior - for example by causing irrational fears. But it doesn't rise into conscious awareness. Repressed traumas or memories can however be brought into conscious awareness through therapy. And it also shows itself in dreams because dreams are created by the unconscious mind while the conscious mind is sleeping. If you're able to partially awaken your conscious apparatus while dreaming (lucidity) then you can become aware of some of the contents of your unconscious and deal with them. Either by facing your fears in a dream where nothing is going to hurt you, or by facing a nightmare character that represents your shadow or some other repressed part of your mind and asking it why it's here or what it wants with you.

Many people report recurring nightmares that feature dark shadowy figures chasing them and trying to kill them for instance. I know this isn't what you've been experiencing, I'm just using it as an example. The usual way we deal with nightmare characters is to run from them or maybe try to fight them. Both of these courses of action are wrong - in dreams just like in waking life, both of them will activate the kill reflexes of a predator (like running from a bear or attacking it). Now in waking life it probably isn't a great idea to confront a bear of lion and ask it what it wants from you - but in a dream where it's representing some facet of your own unconscious mind it's actually a great idea. These nightmare characters - if you run or fight them - become stronger and will go on the attack relentlessly until you're forced to wake up to escape them. But if you ask it what it wants often it will change into something smaller and more harmless (maybe a stuffed animal version of itself or a puyppydog or something) and give you some vital piece of information that you've been repressing - thus ending the recurring nightmares and allowing you to see whatever you were repressing before, which helps you to get over it.

In your case apparently the knowledge that you're dreaming frightens you because you're afraid you won't be able to get back to your body. This could stem from some kind of traumatic experience you had when you were younger - I don't know, maybe being briefly abandoned by parents, or - who knows? You may or may not be aware of what that experience is (if it is caused by a traumatic experience). But you see... your unconscious mind is very chaotic, and it isn't usually aware of what your conscious mind is doing - but in a lucid dream you've got both of them in contact and can consciously direct the activity of the unconscious to some extent. You can cause fragmented parts of it to integrate, thus eliminating the problem.

Ok, end of Psychology 101 lesson!

This has been a real educational experience. I can't say anything on the unconscious mind since I don't know anything about it. I never personally have used lucid dreaming for solving problems. I am way out of my league here. :lol:

But I do like to add I think the unconscious mind is a very unique place, it controls things that we do not think about. Like for example digesting our food, and other involuntary movement. Since we only use 10% of our brains who knows? Maybe Dream Guides in our lucid dreams are our sub conscious talking to us. It is very interesting. :happy:

Wow… that was really interesting, I actually printed it out. Not at all like those endless psychology lessons we have at school about how every boy wants to marry his mother and kill his father. I was forced to write a long essay about that once (probably the reason for my suspicion to psychology).
I still don’t believe that dreams are the only way to “communicate” with your subconscious, but if I got it right you don’t either. (You mentioned therapy and stuff like that.)

Okay… so I’m thinking I might have a “trauma”. Might not be it though, I was not exactly a child (fourteen) and I remember it and all so then I can’t have repressed it? I’m not quite sure how that repression thing works. But I’m writing you a pm about it anyway, I don’t feel comfortable writing about it when a lot of people can read it.

Ok, looking forward to it! But understand - I'm not a psychologist or anything - I'm just a guy who's interested in the subject and has read a lot about it. I might or might not be able to tell you anything more than I already have.

But you can be fully aware of something that happened to you and yet it might have done some damage in your mind. Repression doesn't necessarily mean that you can't remember what happened, only that the negative thoughts it caused might be repressed and you might not be aware of how sever they are or how they damage you. One sign of repression is denial - such as someone continually saying "there's nothing wrong with me" or ignoring problems that are obvious to others.

Pepsibluefan - involuntary actions aren't really controlled by the unconscious mind so much as by the brainstem itself. It's outside the confines of what would be called the mind as far as I know. It's more like just a little microprocessor that runs systems the way your computer in the engine of your car helps regulate things there - and yet it isn't really a computer that you could go online with or anything. Also all that stuff about only using 10% of our brain's capacity is just an old myth used by fans of telekinesis and telepathy and the like - no scientific research ever suggested any such thing.

Insikt - I kept thinking your name meant insect in Swedish, but I finally Googled it, and it means Insight! Awesome.

Okay, that's all right. If you can’t help then it will just be as usual, I doubt it will make it worse.