Thread: eye movement induced lucid dream

I was thinking about lucid dreaming and I came up with an idea; it is based on Pavlov's experiments with salivation in dogs, and the resulting concept of classical conditioning.

Pavlov on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Pavlov

The specific concept I am talking about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning

You guys already utilise this concept when you do a reality check every time you see your specific dreamsign in waking reality.

So, onto the idea.....

I realise that REM sleep, when dreams generally occur, are always accompanied by eye movement (Rapid Eye Movement)
In light of this, it may be possible to heighten awareness or induce lucidity automatically as soon as the eyes begin to move. One could do this by creating an association between eye movement and reality checking or the awareness of ones external environment, or that one is dreaming (on the basis of the Pavlovian concept of classical conditioning).

How can one approach this concept?
Practise reality checking for a few minutes each day, while closing ones eyes and making random movements with them.

Alternatively, a more difficult approach would be to learn to recall the phrase, "I'm dreaming", every time your eyes move substantially during normal daytime activity, or at least a few times, at fixed intervals.


I am not sure if this idea is credible, or if it has been thought of, but it is interesting. I would appreciate some feedback.

Very interesting...

It has potential, to be sure, that is, if the body is aware of it's own REM during sleep....what does this have to do with dog salivitation?

Originally Posted by Noogah

It has potential, to be sure, that is, if the body is aware of it's own REM during sleep....what does this have to do with dog salivitation?

Salivation is a conditioned response.

This sounds very promising. I would love to hear about any success you have with this.

Not sure if it would work, because rapid eye movement is EXTREMELY rapid, faster than you could do when you are awake. And when you are in the REM cycle, you are never aware of your eyes moving.

perhaps one can become aware of the REM subconsciously and due to the repetitive practice and perhaps while you enter REM while asleep your subconscious will associate this with the fact that your dreaming and prompt you to do a RC. It's worth a shot at least. Let us know if it works.

I think there is a lot of potential in this and that it deserves more attention.

I'd tried myself without success to link the "I'm dreaming" message to my own voluntary rapid eye movements.

Originally Posted by Sinani201

Not sure if it would work, because rapid eye movement is EXTREMELY rapid, faster than you could do when you are awake. And when you are in the REM cycle, you are never aware of your eyes moving.

So voluntarily created eye movements don't come close, and that explains why I didn't manage to link.

However in an abstract of article "Eye movements during sleep and imagination" http://journals.lww.com/neuroreport/...ion_of.10.aspx
It appears to suggest (it's written in scientific gobbledegook!) that the same types of movements which occur in REM.."saccadic eye movements" ie very rapid darting movements also occur during conscious visualization of a scene.
So I'm going to get back onto linking my "I'm dreaming" message with looking around vizualized scenes.
I've been dry for a while and am going to get a LD before Xmas so this will be as good a method as any.

Also i've not had time yet to search all the VILD postings but someone will let me know if in them there has already been a connection made with the success of this technique and the creation of these REM type of eye movements during visualization.