Thread: The Phase Blew Me Away

@ Kingofhypocrites

That aside, this technique worked yet again for me today so I continue to be a huge fan. I typically halfheartedly attempt WILDs in the middle of the night and luckily "The Phase" approach serves as a plan B for my later morning awakenings.

-Can I ask you what is your protocol for WILD with details and timing please ?
-After how much time of sleep do you consider entering in the "late morning phase" and how many hours of sleep a night do you need/sleep in total?
-Do you have sleep debt during the week ? (because of having to wake up early each morning for work or whatever) and if yes, in which way do you think this potential REM Debt/ REM rebound is helping for WILD/DEILD/Raduga's technique ?
-Raduga is talking about waking up for WBTB with an alarm. Did you ever do it this way, and if yes what was the result?

The thing that never worked was his frozen still approach to WILDs. I have to move around a lot to remain comfortable so I realized this was a terrible approach for my physiology. However if I wake up in the middle of the night half awake, the frozen approach method works great and is pretty much what Michael Raduga recommends as well, but I find this easy since I am very relaxed already

What is the frozen approach?

If you have the lucidology 102, check out the audio FAQ.

I don't, I'll try to find it.

You noted that you think that entering the phase doesn't depend on cycling, but I would have to disagree.

It's not what I mean.
Cycling 2 or 3 different kinds of "visualizing/imagining doing things" after having attempted a direct OBE is probably one of the key factors for success.
What I say is that I noticed that for me, the success was not related to where I was on my cycles but just being doing the cycle until a certain moment: the exact moment when the WILD/REM window starts to kick in.

At this particular moment, if I imagining myself walking, or doing bicycle or looking through my closed eyelids, or whatever, it works the same, and it doesn't really depend on my ability to imagining the stuff well, because at this exact moment, it becomes really easy to imagine, and few seconds later it becomes real.
before that I had got several WILD by luck, and when the WILD window was kicking it, I was doing certain kinds of visualizing : once I was imagining myself manipulating a Playstation joystick, once I imagined myself jumping just where I was again and again, another time I was just looking through my closed eyelids and was seeing the wall of the room.
I could give several other examples of random lucky WILD where I was successful by imagining very different stuffs one from each other, and when I compare with the success I had got with the raduga's stuff so far, I know that the exact same phenomenon happened.
That why I think that the key is reaching this exact moment where it becomes easy to imagine yourself doing something, no matter what, because when you are doing these stuffs at this moment, the WILD is just happening.

What Raduga's cycles technique probably does is this: it helps you to reach this particular moment with the good physiological and mental background.

You say that you are terrible at visualizing things, but what I think is that you don't have to be good at it, cause if you are doing it just when this REM window is about to kick in, you'll become good at visualizing (because the process in the brain that attenuates hallucinated images is about to stop his work to let the sub-conscious creating the Dreams contents, so you start to see and feel what you imagine seeing of feeling. When you wake up, this attenuating system starts again to prevent you from hallucinating stuffs in your real life).

As you know, the very first visualizing/imagining stuff to do with the raduga's technique is the direct OBE attempt.
I have been successful once with this approach and it gave me a very strong and complete OBE.
I guess it is because this particular visualization is very related to the body feelings, and if the REM windows is kicking it at this exact moment, you are likely to live an OBE, cause at this moment, the brain is focused on the real body, but this real body input is just turned off when the REM sleep kicks in.
The brain probably interprets this sudden lack of body inputs (on which it was consciously focused on) as a weird thing and creates an OBE scenario, to give it a sens.

The question I ask to myself is : does the cycling only keep you focused until the WILD REM is coming, or does it make this window happening in some way?

Galantamine seems legit. I wish I could take that stuff. I seem to be sensitive to everything. I had a bad reaction to alpha-gpc and have been afraid to touch it since.

What Galantamine will probably do is preventing you from falling asleep during the hour after you took it, depending on what you do during the WBTB.
If you take a very small amount of melatonine (0,30mg) when taking the Galantamine pill, you'll have chance to fall back to sleep faster.
I suppose this happen because the Galantamine being a pro AcetylCholine molecule (by stopping the destruction of AcétylCholine = stoping the AcetylCholinesterase ), it is a pro REM molecule.
So if it is a pro REM factor, I guess it has some anti N-REM effects, and makes the slow sleep stages more difficult to attain.
But the good news is that you'll have less N-REM barriers to deal with.
The galantamine takes one hour to start to kick in as a WILD help.
But if you fall asleep and then wake up, it will become very easy to return back to sleep without loosing consciousness, by the help of the raduga's approach for example.
I recommend to read the Thomas Yusckak's book about LD supplements for WILD attempt, even if you don't plan to use supplements, it really helps to understand stuffs around WILDs, REM, sleep stages and so on.

@Kaan,

In regards to the protocol for WILD, I am a bit all over the map. As you probably know Raduga recommends getting up after 6 hours, getting a drink of water, reading the protocol, and then going back to bed. He basically recommends the standard WBTB proposed by Laberge, although he allows for a greater window of time (3-50 minutes). Next the auto-suggestion should be started to remember to stay still upon wakening. I honestly haven't tried this yet, but perhaps I would have much greater success not moving upon awakening if I did. Occasionally I will awake briefly and start to recite the phrase as I fall back asleep but I have yet to try it with a full WBTB. I find that remembering to stay still is the greatest challenge by far with the technique (vs. the technique not working when I remember to do it).

Instead, if I am going to get out of bed to use the bathroom or whatever, when I go back to bed I typically attempt a standard WILD technique where I pick a mental anchor and try to maintain consciousness as I fall asleep. That way if I fail, I always have the phase technique as a backup for later in the morning. LaBerge reports a 20 fold increase in success when doing a WBTB. That is pretty massive. I would agree that I have more success (with lucid dreaming in general) when actually doing a proper WBTB where my mind is forced to become more active doing something such as reading, etc.

I am not totally sure why WBTB is needed for Raduga's technique. Is it related to remembering to staying still upon awakening? Does it increase the likelihood of the technique working when attempting it? Or, does it simply increase the experience when you become lucid? All of this being said, I rarely do a proper WBTB because I have trouble with insomnia and I would rather fail at my WILD attempt by falling asleep or fail in general at becoming lucid than stay awake too long. I have experimented quite a bit with the WBTB time and I find that I get plenty of lucid dreams without it but it's certainly a powerful weapon.

As for the length of time, I have spent years experimenting between 3-6 hours but as of yet I can't recommend anything specific for WBTB. Raduga recommends 6 hours and so do most others. I find the longer I wait the harder it is for me to get back to sleep which I why I am always experimenting with shorter intervals. I can't recommend a specific WILD technique since there are many others who are more skilled with it than I. I am still very much in the experimental phase as random techniques have worked for me at various times but nothing has been consistent. Most of my lucids come from MILD and DILD.

In regards to the late morning phase... I would consider anything after 7 hours to be late morning, although after 8 there is really a sweet spot if I am tired enough. I typically try to give myself 9-10 hours to sleep each night because an 8 hour window has not been sufficient for me in a long time, so it makes it easier to lucid if keep on this schedule. Many times I am not able to get this much and end up closer to 7-8 (or even 6 depending how well I slept), so this naturally creates a debt. Since I nap a lot this rarely allows me to take advantage of debts although they have been an awesome tool for me in times past and have allowed me to have extremely long and multiple lucids throughout the later hours of the morning. However, it's not something I do on purpose and can't speak to many recent experiences with it.

I have used an alarm for WBTB many times but find I wake up enough naturally that I don't need one at the moment. I will typically practice with an alarm for weeks at a time (in conjunction with other WILD techniques), but ultimately it starts to affect my sleep and I have to back off for awhile. This may be because I set multiple alarms at different REM intervals. I'd say for heavy sleepers an alarm is probably a must if you want the benefits of WBTB which as I said early shows a massive benefit for other lucid techniques. I would recommend the app Chronology for iPhone. It will allow you to have a single beep go off at a specified interval. If you don't want to do a full WBTB and just wake up to try the Phase or some other technique without having to move to shut off the alarm, this is a great tool.

The frozen still approach is what is recommended in many WILD techniques such as Lucidology 101. It basically says relax a bit, move into a position and stay there and don't move no matter what. Then wait for sleep paralysis or some sign post that you are entering into the dream state. More modern techniques disregard this and say to move as much as you need to continue to be comfortable. You will fall asleep easier this way, although sometimes you fall asleep too easily. This approach works better for me for WILDs. Mzzch's sticky post really explains it best and why it doesn't make sense to stay frozen still. I only stay frozen still if I wake up from sleep and want to try to WILD immediately which is exactly what the phase recommends and is hence the same exact type of technique.

I think you are right on track with the cycling however it is well known that some individuals are more tactile, auditory, or visually oriented. That is why I say some techniques may be more geared towards some than others. Certainly in a dreaming state I can visually vividly. However, even in hypnagogia my imagery is very faint and fleeting. Not to say visualizing never works for me, just to say I think maybe because of our individual brain makeup some techniques might work easier for some than others. Certainly you are correct that if you are in the right state it makes all the difference. However I think it's entirely possible that you may get the roll sensation to work and then try to visualize something and get nothing. Have you ever been in hypnagogia and you were getting auditory sensations but no visuals? Or have you notice that when entering a dream you don't always get all sense immediately? Maybe you hear voices but no visuals? I think it's the same with the Phase. You are able to get a grasp on one dream sense and you run with it even though you don't have a grasp on all of them. I think this is why cycling is important. I also believe it keeps your mind focused since if you start to concentrate of your physical surroundings you are likely to lose the state you are in.

I have read Thomas Yusckak's book and tried his protocol, but supplements don't mix well with me.

Sorry this is so long but I wanted to touch on all your questions.