Thread: WILD - Wake Initiated Lucid Dream

Hi gab, thanks, actually that does help. Usually when I become lucid, I am already dreaming, then realize, "hey....I'm dreaming ", but I don't do much at that point other than just let the dream continue. So I thought that since I can AP through meditation, that maybe I could get better at LD instead of AP. Right? Not so easy as you know, but I will give what you suggested a try and maybe I can roll out before HH happens.

usually when i wake myself up around 2:00 i just am like nope not doing this and give, i read about CANWILD just before is this another false tutorial or is this actually possible as i did see it mentions sp?

I have a little variation on the WILD technique since its near impossible for me any other way, I've tried doing it where you get up out of bed for 10 minutes then try to sleep but my mind always falls asleep before my body does.

So what I do that works is just right when I wake up from the rem cycle (I wake up automatically, no alarms) I'll just start a thought like what it's the meaning of life or something and before I know it when I finish thinking about the thought I'll be in a dream.

This makes my mind active while basically keeping my body asleep.

EDIT: this might be a good method for those who can't spend the time awake and not asleep while doing a WBTB

Usually, if you fall asleep too soon after WBTB, you could try to stay up little longer. You should be able to think clearly, but still be sleepy enough.

Then, anchors can keep your mind occupied and anchored in waking life, until you ready to fall asleep, when dream is ready for you. Most common anchors are mantras, counting, or even concentrating on your breathing. I'm glad you found your own method.

Then, anchors can keep your mind occupied and anchored in waking life, until you ready to fall asleep, when dream is ready for you. Most common anchors are mantras, counting, or even concentrating on your breathing. I'm glad you found your own method.

Yea I've tried anchors for a while, but it just doesn't work, I'll end up forgetting to keep doing the anchors since my mind is too tired then eventually my mind will just completely fall asleep.

Funny thing is I found this method completely by accident, it just happened that I had a competently un-recallable dream so I woke up from the rem cycle annoyed that I couldn't recall any of it, then found myself still annoyed but now in a dream =).


And staying up longer I doubt would help since when I try to go back to sleep, it takes me about the amount of time it takes for me to try to fall asleep attempting a WILD when first going to sleep already (I know that doesn't work, but I still do it since for some reason it helps with getting up after rem cycles) so my mind still falls asleep before my body.

The minute the infinite void has manifested you can AT too it you engross yourself in the void or 3d blackness by staring through it bringing your conscious past it I have done this from being fully awake within 10 minutes however the Projection lasted mere moments

Looke (:

Well yesterday and today I've tried my method of WILD,yesterday I kept thinking about how I want to get up after each dream... No luck at all.

Today I basically just wanted to get to sleep fast, and here I am typing at 4:00am at night cause I'm too excited about the fact that I had 3 lucids in a row using the method.
First one I literally thought "woah, I'm thinking... yet I'm in a dream, must be that I'm lucid" Basically what I've been trying to do is just immediately start thinking stuff when I'm awake so things like that happen, sometimes it can kill dream recall though.

After the first one it became pretty easy, I just kept going into dreams after getting kicked out. Had 3 semi substantial lucids, meaning they lasted for more than a second.

Originally Posted by Mutch95

usually when i wake myself up around 2:00 i just am like nope not doing this and give, i read about CANWILD just before is this another false tutorial or is this actually possible as i did see it mentions sp?

If the CANWILD is on this forum, would you mind linking it? Mentioning SP doesn't necessarily disqualifies a tutorial. But it depends. Also, before I read the tut you are mentioning, I would say, that gaining experience with a basic one is the best way to go.

Just read this - thanks. About two years ago I was really fascinated by lucid dreaming. I started keeping a journal, doing reality checks, etc. Due to this and in general making myself more aware of my dreams, I have had 4 lucid dreams (that I can remember) since then. They were all awesome experiences and they were exactly what I thought they would be. They were all DILD, as I was too scared in the past I guess to try WILD because I was nervous about the horrors of sleep paralysis. Two years later and now I'm here and I've been trying (from what I remembered from two years ago) to WILD. Basically I wake up every morning, then try and relax and re-enter a sleeping state while keeping my mind awake, I think I've gotten close; I have felt completely relaxed and seeing some moving shapes, but nothing further than that. I notice that the common problems you posted in your guide are actually EXACTLY what I've experienced. First of all, swallowing, I always end up doing it, either it's a reflex or I just can't help myself. I normally sleep on my side but I've been trying to WILD on my back (for some reason, I thought that was the only technique). Secondly, my eyes randomly start to open without my command when I'm trying to do that which is very annoying but I will buy one of those masks now that you advise it. I haven't really put much thought into when I'm in REM sleep and things like that, I haven't kept a journal for a long time. Do you think I should start keeping one again? Is that essential to my success with WILD? I'm determined to make it happen!

PS: I have experienced sleep paralysis in a non lucid dreaming scenario, it was really weird but since I knew what sleep paralysis was I surprisingly wasn't freaked out or worried at all. So for those worried, it's really not so bad if you already know of the existence of sleep paralysis (but I can see how it could be for those who don't know what it is).

Any tips for me based on my story? Thanks
Sorry for wall of text

Originally Posted by remaerc

Just read this - thanks. About two years ago I was really fascinated by lucid dreaming. I started keeping a journal, doing reality checks, etc. Due to this and in general making myself more aware of my dreams, I have had 4 lucid dreams (that I can remember) since then. They were all awesome experiences and they were exactly what I thought they would be. They were all DILD, as I was too scared in the past I guess to try WILD because I was nervous about the horrors of sleep paralysis. Two years later and now I'm here and I've been trying (from what I remembered from two years ago) to WILD. Basically I wake up every morning, then try and relax and re-enter a sleeping state while keeping my mind awake, I think I've gotten close; I have felt completely relaxed and seeing some moving shapes, but nothing further than that. I notice that the common problems you posted in your guide are actually EXACTLY what I've experienced. First of all, swallowing, I always end up doing it, either it's a reflex or I just can't help myself. I normally sleep on my side but I've been trying to WILD on my back (for some reason, I thought that was the only technique). Secondly, my eyes randomly start to open without my command when I'm trying to do that which is very annoying but I will buy one of those masks now that you advise it. I haven't really put much thought into when I'm in REM sleep and things like that, I haven't kept a journal for a long time. Do you think I should start keeping one again? Is that essential to my success with WILD? I'm determined to make it happen!

PS: I have experienced sleep paralysis in a non lucid dreaming scenario, it was really weird but since I knew what sleep paralysis was I surprisingly wasn't freaked out or worried at all. So for those worried, it's really not so bad if you already know of the existence of sleep paralysis (but I can see how it could be for those who don't know what it is).

Any tips for me based on my story? Thanks
Sorry for wall of text

Congrats on your lucids, and glad that you came back to LDing.

1. DJ
Yes, I would recommend dream journalling again. It's always good to be thinking about dreaming, regardless of the induction technique you are using.

2. You can swallow, scratch, change position.
Depending on how little (much) attention you pay to it, it may not set you back in your process at all, or just a little. Best way to do it, is to do it same way as when we going to sleep normally. I bet nobody even notices that we are swallowing, or changing position.

3. Sleeping position
I never sleep on my back. But I WILD in reclined position on my back, with 2-3 pillows behind my back propped against the sofa armrest. So I'm at about 45 degr. angle. I'm used to this position, having watching TV like this for years, and falling asleep to it frequently. It also tells my mind, that I'm going to do something else, then just regular going to sleep thing.

Sometimes when WILD is just not coming, or I would just rather sleep, I turn to my side. I have gotten LDs and OBEs like that as well.

The goal is to be in a comfortable position, perhaps not too strange one, so you can fall asleep. Mostly I think it depends on our minds though. Are we telling ourselves "oh, this is a strange position and I won't be able to sleep or LD", or we have an intent to LD, and we don't mind the position we are in.

4. Scary experiences - HH
The "scary" things we may or may not experience while WILDing, are not Sleep paralysis. They are simply us observing our body shutting down and falling asleep. There may be beginnings of dreams, that we can notice as either images, sounds or tactile sensations - called hypnogogic hallucinations, or HH. They are all part of the dream world. If we were already asleep at that time, we would have a dream. But since our mind is still awake, the dreams present themselves in form of HH.

Term "scary" is subjective. Some may get scared by the vibrations, movements, images of strange things or strange sounds. But for others, those could be the best experience of their lives. Even "scary" images can be fun, entertaining and exciting, if we think of them as the gateway to world of lucid dream. If we know, that they are only hallucination, they can't hurt us.

Also, our thoughts and expectations while WILDing shape our experience. If we are going into it thinking that it's gonna be scary, then our mind will give us scary. If we have pleasant thoughts, then we are most likely going to have a nice experience.

5. Sleep paralysis - SP
Classic SP is, when we wake up and we are not able to move, no matter what. Sometimes people say "I felt it would be hard to move". That is not SP. That is just our body being in extreme relaxed state. That's when we lose feel of our physical body. Because we are already half asleep, half way to the dream world.

True SP can be accompanied by hallucinations of demons or other 'classic universal scary things". And there is usually a feeling of terror. If anyone had experienced both, the HH and SP, he can tell, that there is a difference between them.

If someone is not prone to SP normally, he will not be getting SP while WILDing. At least not in those parts of the process, when we could even notice it. If we get SP when WILDing, it is when we are already full blown dreaming. By then, nobody cares about if he can move his body or not, because we are dreaming a lucid dream, fighting zombies, flying, having sex, samurai swording somebody...

6. How do we know if we are in REM
We should be in REM in order to dream. When we first go to sleep, we have about 80 min of NREM to go through, before we get our first, 10 min REM stage. Then we wake up very briefly, which most of us don't even notice. Unless you train yourself to notice it for purpose of getting up right after dream ends so you can record it.

Then we have another 90 min sleep cycle. And another and another. In each one, NREM gets shorter and REM longer. That's why WBTB is crucial for a WILD. And that's why it's impossible to WILD at the beginning of the sleep (if you are aiming at having a REM LD).

WBTB after at least 4.5 hrs of sleep wakes up our mind, so it's alert and doesn't fall asleep into unconsious sleep, prematurely, while we are WILDing. But if you can WBTB and WILD after longer sleep, that's even better. Because towards morning, after about 7-8 hrs of sleep, our NREM is very short, so staying asleep but still aware through it should not be a huge problem.

Remember, if you try to WILD without prior sleep, you have to be in practically lucid sleep for 80 min, before you even reach your first REM. That's like having an 80 min long lucid just to get to your lucid. Only during those first 80 min, you not gonna have dreams of same quality as in REM. It's possible to dream in NREM, but that is not NREM's function. So those dreams are far less frequent then we think and hope.

REM in a nap:
If we had a good night sleep with all the sleep stages, if we take a nap later, strange thing happens. Our body puts us almost directly into REM. NREM is very important to regeneration of our bodies. But if we got enough of it during night, nap is a REM paradise.

For me, morning nap works the best, bet I have had a lucid even as late as 5-7 hrs after waking up in the morning. But those for me are more of an exception than a rule. Because, if we take our nap too close to our normal bed time, oru body may just think we are having an early night and puts us through all stages as it would normally do. How close is too close? That I guess depends on an individual.

Ok, so, I hope I hit all your questions. If not, please ask further. Happy dreams

Originally Posted by gab

Congrats on your lucids, and glad that you came back to LDing.

1. DJ
Yes, I would recommend dream journalling again. It's always good to be thinking about dreaming, regardless of the induction technique you are using.

2. You can swallow, scratch, change position.
Depending on how little (much) attention you pay to it, it may not set you back in your process at all, or just a little. Best way to do it, is to do it same way as when we going to sleep normally. I bet nobody even notices that we are swallowing, or changing position.

3. Sleeping position
I never sleep on my back. But I WILD in reclined position on my back, with 2-3 pillows behind my back propped against the sofa armrest. So I'm at about 45 degr. angle. I'm used to this position, having watching TV like this for years, and falling asleep to it frequently. It also tells my mind, that I'm going to do something else, then just regular going to sleep thing.

Sometimes when WILD is just not coming, or I would just rather sleep, I turn to my side. I have gotten LDs and OBEs like that as well.

The goal is to be in a comfortable position, perhaps not too strange one, so you can fall asleep. Mostly I think it depends on our minds though. Are we telling ourselves "oh, this is a strange position and I won't be able to sleep or LD", or we have an intent to LD, and we don't mind the position we are in.

4. Scary experiences - HH
The "scary" things we may or may not experience while WILDing, are not Sleep paralysis. They are simply us observing our body shutting down and falling asleep. There may be beginnings of dreams, that we can notice as either images, sounds or tactile sensations - called hypnogogic hallucinations, or HH. They are all part of the dream world. If we were already asleep at that time, we would have a dream. But since our mind is still awake, the dreams present themselves in form of HH.

Term "scary" is subjective. Some may get scared by the vibrations, movements, images of strange things or strange sounds. But for others, those could be the best experience of their lives. Even "scary" images can be fun, entertaining and exciting, if we think of them as the gateway to world of lucid dream. If we know, that they are only hallucination, they can't hurt us.

Also, our thoughts and expectations while WILDing shape our experience. If we are going into it thinking that it's gonna be scary, then our mind will give us scary. If we have pleasant thoughts, then we are most likely going to have a nice experience.

5. Sleep paralysis - SP
Classic SP is, when we wake up and we are not able to move, no matter what. Sometimes people say "I felt it would be hard to move". That is not SP. That is just our body being in extreme relaxed state. That's when we lose feel of our physical body. Because we are already half asleep, half way to the dream world.

True SP can be accompanied by hallucinations of demons or other 'classic universal scary things". And there is usually a feeling of terror. If anyone had experienced both, the HH and SP, he can tell, that there is a difference between them.

If someone is not prone to SP normally, he will not be getting SP while WILDing. At least not in those parts of the process, when we could even notice it. If we get SP when WILDing, it is when we are already full blown dreaming. By then, nobody cares about if he can move his body or not, because we are dreaming a lucid dream, fighting zombies, flying, having sex, samurai swording somebody...

6. How do we know if we are in REM
We should be in REM in order to dream. When we first go to sleep, we have about 80 min of NREM to go through, before we get our first, 10 min REM stage. Then we wake up very briefly, which most of us don't even notice. Unless you train yourself to notice it for purpose of getting up right after dream ends so you can record it.

Then we have another 90 min sleep cycle. And another and another. In each one, NREM gets shorter and REM longer. That's why WBTB is crucial for a WILD. And that's why it's impossible to WILD at the beginning of the sleep (if you are aiming at having a REM LD).

WBTB after at least 4.5 hrs of sleep wakes up our mind, so it's alert and doesn't fall asleep into unconsious sleep, prematurely, while we are WILDing. But if you can WBTB and WILD after longer sleep, that's even better. Because towards morning, after about 7-8 hrs of sleep, our NREM is very short, so staying asleep but still aware through it should not be a huge problem.

Remember, if you try to WILD without prior sleep, you have to be in practically lucid sleep for 80 min, before you even reach your first REM. That's like having an 80 min long lucid just to get to your lucid. Only during those first 80 min, you not gonna have dreams of same quality as in REM. It's possible to dream in NREM, but that is not NREM's function. So those dreams are far less frequent then we think and hope.

REM in a nap:
If we had a good night sleep with all the sleep stages, if we take a nap later, strange thing happens. Our body puts us almost directly into REM. NREM is very important to regeneration of our bodies. But if we got enough of it during night, nap is a REM paradise.

For me, morning nap works the best, bet I have had a lucid even as late as 5-7 hrs after waking up in the morning. But those for me are more of an exception than a rule. Because, if we take our nap too close to our normal bed time, oru body may just think we are having an early night and puts us through all stages as it would normally do. How close is too close? That I guess depends on an individual.

Ok, so, I hope I hit all your questions. If not, please ask further. Happy dreams

Thanks a lot for the detailed response. This is awesome. I'm happy to read that some of the concerns I have shouldn't actually be very concerning to me. I tried again this morning, I think one of my big problems is not knowing what to look for since I've never had a successful WILD before. I set my alarm for 6:00AM after going to bed around 1:00AM. I woke up and tried to think about lucid dreaming and tried to WILD but I just fell back asleep unfortunately. I tried again when I naturally woke up around 9:00AM but I think I was too awake to make any real progress. I will try again tonight. The nap thing is very interesting. A few days ago I was a bit hungover from a night out with the boys, and I just fell asleep on my couch watching TV, kinda like what you said, and I went DIRECTLY into a dream. I knew it was a dream but it wasn't lucid perse because I just let the dream carry on and I only napped for like 15 minutes. It was very cool though so I may experiment with that a bit more too.

Again, thanks a lot for the response, I really appreciate it. Hopefully I can gain some experience and help others out too.

If you fall asleep too soon, try some kind of an anchor. Anchor is something, usually a phrase that you repeat, that reminds you of what are you doing. Since it's so easy to let your mind wander off and forget that you were trying to lucid dream.

Something short, easy to remember, and that has a meaning for you. For example "I'm dreaming". If you keep mumbling, later just thinking this phrase, if your mind wanders off, at some point you will hear your mantra again and it will get you back on track.

Another thing is WBTB. You have to get out of the bed and wake your mind up just enugh, till you can think straight, but you still sleepy. This way your mind will not fall asleep prematurely.

I suggest this WILD Good luck.

Oh, and yes, sometimes I see images as soon as I close my eyes, while falling asleep in front of TV. Try a mantra to see if can stay aware untill you enter a dream consioussly.

Originally Posted by gab

If you fall asleep too soon, try some kind of an anchor. Anchor is something, usually a phrase that you repeat, that reminds you of what are you doing. Since it's so easy to let your mind wander off and forget that you were trying to lucid dream.

Something short, easy to remember, and that has a meaning for you. For example "I'm dreaming". If you keep mumbling, later just thinking this phrase, if your mind wanders off, at some point you will hear your mantra again and it will get you back on track.

Another thing is WBTB. You have to get out of the bed and wake your mind up just enugh, till you can think straight, but you still sleepy. This way your mind will not fall asleep prematurely.

I suggest this WILD Good luck.

Oh, and yes, sometimes I see images as soon as I close my eyes, while falling asleep in front of TV. Try a mantra to see if can stay aware untill you enter a dream consioussly.

Thanks for all the advice! I'll certainly report back with my findings

Originally Posted by gab

If the CANWILD is on this forum, would you mind linking it? Mentioning SP doesn't necessarily disqualifies a tutorial. But it depends.

http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...torial-**.html
CANWILD is legit. I wouldn't worry about SP being mentioned. In this case, it's a matter of semantics. It works like DEILD, except you use an alarm to wake up, and then immediately do a WILD.

Will tiring yourself out, increase your chances of entering sleep paralysis, like staying up for 2 days straight?

No, but you don't need sleep paralysis anyway. You're probably thinking of REM rebound.

Originally Posted by nerofaora

Will tiring yourself out, increase your chances of entering sleep paralysis, like staying up for 2 days straight?

You can get REM rebound, if you are sleep deprived. But there is a limit on how long of a sleep deprivation gives you REM rebound. Beyond that, you will be thrown into deep sleep, which is probably more important to the body then REM is.

One night, I had only 4 hrs of sleep. Following night, I got some HH and feelling I could be going into WILD just seconds after my head hit the pillow. Then next time, when I had same 4-5 hrs of sleep only, that didn't give me REM rebound on following night.

So there may not be any fast rules about this. It may depend on more factors. But i'm no expert at this. All I can tell you, that not sleeping for 2 days is not the best way to try for a LD.

And SP is not part of lucid dreaming. If you not prone to them, you will not get them any more often when LDing then you normally would.

Originally Posted by gab

One night, I had only 4 hrs of sleep. Following night, I got some HH and feelling I could be going into WILD just seconds after my head hit the pillow.

That's interesting! A week or so ago I was so tired that I experienced wild bursts of images as soon as my head hit the pillow, sounds very similar. But I think I then just sank into long, deep sleep. Hmm, wait, either on that night or on another, I did experience "WILD noise" (strong rocking / waves sensation) almost immediately.

And when I had a very high fever a few months ago I didn't remember any dreams but one short burst of super-fast images/ideas/thoughts that went by so fast I couldn't make any sense out of it.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

That's interesting! A week or so ago I was so tired that I experienced wild bursts of images as soon as my head hit the pillow, sounds very similar.

Sometimes I get that around 5 pm, when I'm dozing off while watching TV. That's about 8 hrs after waking up in the morning. But not always. I guess, we should be experimenting with all kinds of things at different times. Not get discouraged, if something works once, but it doesn't work again, or not always. Just understand, that that's the nature of the game. Appreciate every gift we get.

First of all, sorry for my English.

I had my first LD after two weeks of trying WILD. Since then (two months ago) I have had a little DILD, and one week ago a MILD.

For me the problem with WILD is that it takes a lot of time with the WBTB. Now I can afford it because I dont work, but I would prefer to succes with a technic as SSILD, that doesnt take too much time in the WBTB. I find that WILD it requires more effort than other technics.

My basic problems with WILD are:
-Although I can awake up naturally every night (more or less at 4.00), I can't find my time for the WBTB some times it takes me too much time to fall asleep again, other times I have to make great efforts to not fall asleep to quickly. If I stay 20-30 min I feel sleepy, is that ok? or do I have to be more awake?

-Position problem: I find that staying in my back is the best position for me. Is the one that I can be more time still, but... as the WILD take me a lot of time I usually get tired in this position and give up. And in the other positions I move too much (I always roll a lot before sleep). I supose that I have to be still for forgeting my body.

-Visualization problem: My first wild was with visualization. I imagined that I was in my house and I visited each room, at some point, some kind of blackness covered me and I appeared in a space station in the moon. It was super vivid LD. BUT!!! since then I dindt get the same result, no more WILDs, basically because I find visualization very difficult. It requieres a lot of effort for me. I was making the visualization for a lot of time. So the question here is: Is it better to concentrate in mantras first and make the visualization only in the final stage?

-HH problem: I sometimes start to have strong HH but I get excited and they disapear, or I move my eyes and they disapear.

I would love to master WILD, but, for example with SSILD or MILD, I think I can be more relaxed (I dindt success with SSILD yet) I can move more if I want to. If I could get to make WILD very relaxed and it dindt take me so much time it would be perfect.

How much time take you to fall asleep after starting the WILD?

Thank you for your time.

Hello again.

I tried a little nap now, and maybe I found another problem. My mind wanders a lot. I have lots of thouths and even music! I have tried to make it more like a Meditation concentrating in the mantra, and I think I got good results.

I had some HH. I dindt sleep because I was not tired enough.

So...

Is it good idea to take wild like a very deep meditation? this way I found my self more relaxed.

thank you

I will be trying WILD tomorrow morning.

i tried wild the night before, i was really tired and i rested on my side and repeated affirmations in my head, then positioned myself on my back counting down from a 100, inhaling and exhaling at each number. between each breath i repeated an affirmation and then i was in an state of semi-consciousness but not completely out and i realized i was in such state only after snapping myself out of it. i had done so because i felt a sensation on my hand, and some noises and felt like it was going to engulf my entire body. i thought i was entering the stage where paralysis kicks in, i'm not entirely sure. so what does this sound like? was i close?

^^ Yes, Mitten, you were close, and likely would have gotten a lot closer had you not made important the assorted noise that can (but doesn't need to) accompany a WILD dive. Those sensations you felt are simply your witnessing of things that go on every time you go to sleep. If you try to ignore them, or at the very least acknowledge them as nothing more important than mileposts along the way to a WILD, you will have much better luck with your WILD dive.

Also, keep in mind that "reaching" sleep paralysis is not a requirement for a successful WILD. Indeed, actual sleep paralysis (which is very rare) wouldn't even be experienced until you wake up, and not as you fall asleep. Try not to make it too important, much less a goal.