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I think that if you use only one way of any of the paths to lucidity, you are limiting your time there. I do the same thing every time I go to sleep, and if I notice anything start happening at any time during my cycles, I bring up my consciousness and make a decision on what "feels" best to do at the time from previous experience and my gut feeling. It can be wrong a lot of time, but with more and more experience, I am sure I will do better in the future. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by sivason
Well, both. When you open your dream eyes, you are already asleep and dreaming. But sometimes you don't realize that, because when you keep your consciousness all the way into the dream, it can be hard to notice when the reality ends and dream starts. In other words, the transition from waking life into dream can be so smooth, that you thinking you are still awake, when in fact you are already asleep and in a dream. That's when you can rely on other clues, like vibrations, sense of falling/flying, or you can suddenly see your room.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrLuigi
Well i had it a few times that i thought my eyelids were partly open due i saw a few parts of my room, and thats when i start trying to close my eyes and away my WILD is :P
Thats when i tryed doing some cloth on my eyes just so i can be sure it isnt my room for realz :P
thanks for the help ^^ Its now school so i probably wont do this due i think i might get in my dream to deep :P
I had it as a child i could hear my mom talking to me, when she was in real telling me to wake up, she pushed my arm and i remembered the day after that i had those feelings in the dream and what she said :P
I think your brains remember dreams alot better and easyer to get lucid tbh :P
So the other day after I felt vibrations and had some very vivid imagery that kind of looked like a short movie, but I believed I was still more awake than asleep, are you saying I should have opened my eyes? I thought surely that I was still too close to awake to risk something like that. It was a failed WILD attempt.Quote:
Originally Posted by gab
It's quite possible that few times when you open them, you will be still awake. But it's also quite possible, that you will open your dream eyes into the dream world. After a few experiences, you will develop a feeling for the "dream state" and you will know you are in a dream even before you open your eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoannaB
Until then, you may wanna do some RC before opening your eyes. Maybe try lifting your arms and looking at them. You can start with just a very gentle motion. More like just a command for your arm to move, without actually moving any muscles. If you in a dream, your dream arms will move. If you awake, just thinking about moving them will not move them and you will not ruin your attempt. You can practice this during day. Imagine you are moving your arm with mentally giving your arm a command to move. You can engage your muscles, as if you were to flex them, but don't finish the movement.
Maybe OpheliaBlue can explain the opening of the dream eyes better, as I don't have much experience with it. I'm much better in standing up or rolling out of my body.
I can't remember where I got the idea from but what do you think about nudging on the vibrations once they start? After a few tries where I nudged too hard and woke myself up, I feel like I have gotten pretty good at nudging on the vibrations whenever I notice them. The last two times I found myself being able to see through my closed eyelids and entered (something similar to?) a false awakening where I am in my room but knew it was a dream due to the transition and the fact that I could see through my closed eyelids. The nudging for me is hard to describe but is kind of a similar action/feeling to the way a little kid might wish really hard for something(or thinking really hard), with their eyes closed using similar muscles used when squinting but using the whole front of the head around the eyes...but not too hard of course.
Maybe wait for confirmation from someone else before trying in case I am leading you away from the techniques you should be using. Anyone else use something similar?
You can try and play with the HH, as well as vibrations. I'm not sure it's neccessery to do for purpose of entering lucid dream, though. For that, perhaps best thing to do is observe them passively. But if you are an experienced LDer and you feel like playing and exploring, then why not?
I have also heard that you can learn to intensify vibrations, make them spread, and even direct them to different parts of your body. I have tried it a few times, each time without success. But then one day, I was able to make them much stronger and move them as energy ball. I felt these vibrations and energy rolling in my legs and I was able to make them stronger in left knee, then in right knee. While I was doing this, I either saw, or imagined blue energy field around me with lighning like energy discharges. It was exhilarating.
Maybe you could check out sivason's dream yoga class. He has a lesson in there with directing energy through your body. Dream Yoga
I realized the difference between when I wasn't able to do this and when I was. Every time I tried unsuccesfully, I was still too awake.
I used to frequently enter LD, when during WILDing I suddenly realized I can see my room. I wouldn't really call it false awakening, and it didn't feel like it either. To me, false awakening means that it starts as a regular dream in which I realize I'm dreaming. But this was, as you say, without loss of consciousness. Those were pretty hard to catch, because there is no indication that you are in a dream already, since I didn't realize that my eyes are closed, yet I see my room. For this I used mantra "when i see my room, I get up". This helped me to remember.
Aye, there's the rub! "After a few experiences..." it's getting to the first WILD that's the trick! To check if you're asleep without waking yourself up...and if you're lifting your arms before opening your eyes, hwo can you look at them to see if they lifted merely by mental command? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by gab
I'm beginning to suspect there really is no answer to "exactly how do you make that last step into the LD" without having done it before. Catch-22! Which is frustrating for us newbs, but that's just the way it is perhaps? Again perhaps this is why MILD is recommended first, to get the "feel" for the LD, something to reach for and recognize when WILDing (?).
It really is not that complicated. If you read a good tutorial and you follow it, you will get your first WILD without all these things I talked about. On the other hand, yes, that's why DILD is recommended to start with. Not only to make you familiar with that "dreamy" feeling, but also, and most importantly, to prepare you mentally.Quote:
Originally Posted by FryingMan
There isn't really catch-22. If there was, people would not be having WILDs that easily. But you need to know what you doing. Hence, reading a good tutorial.
If you move your dream hand, you wouldn't see that with your real eyes. So there is no need to open your real eyes. And if you move your dream hands, you will know it. You will either see it with your dream vision, or feel them move. But really, this is not how you do it on your first try. So read up, join sageouses class if you wish, and post your questions. Happy dreams.
DV recommended WILD and DILD for beginners Induction Methods and Techniques
DV recommended detailed WILD (sageous)
http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...ntry-wild.html
I want to comment on JoannaB's question. If you are in the first sleep stage you can and will move your body if you are not careful. Use your insticts here. If you feel partially awake, do not try opening your eyes. I would say if you can feel your body in the standard sense, you best stay fairly still. You should be feeling about 30% awareness of body in nREM1 and that is just too much to risk it. When you feel like you are floating in space and only have a vauge preseption of body, then you may try these types of transition.
What I like to do instea is what Gab mentions about moving a dream version of your hand. You will need to feel the differnece while awake. You can imagine clearly enough to feel as if you have moved yourhand, while never having sent the needed signals to initiate actual physical movement. If you find, in WILD, that you can feel a limb move, you are starting to form a dream body. If you sense that a real body part is trying to move, then back off and allow your depth of sleep to increase.
Simply having begun the formation of a dream body, may not result in a full LD. It is at this point where Ophelia means to open your eyes (dream eyes) and Gab talks about rolling out of bed. One of my favorites is climbing a ladder in my mind. Not only until I can feel as if I am actually climbing up a ladder (visualize each step) but until something random inserts itself. I may be climbing along and then feel as if the ladder is changing angle or that a platform is in my way. That means I now have a dream body and my mind is creating dream based sensations. At this point I may try to look around and start my dream.
Unfortuanatly it is an art, and each of you will likely have to play around, and fail a few times to understand what we are talking about. it is not hard, but it is hard to explain.
EDIT: Please note, as I have said before, there are two different basic WILD approaches. In one method you are only trying to bring some awareness into sleep, in the other you are doing thing to initiate dreams after you have fallen asleep.
I think all this stuff about opening your eyes, moving your hands, climbing and so on belong to the second type. Please start with simply following Gab's basic outline, in which a dream should form around you. You should have little question when a dream has formed. If you need more detailed help, then go to sageous' class, and after reading all the material, truely spend some time working on that form.
gab and Sageous are providing a streamlined easy to use form. Sageous does not add bells and whistles. The style will work. If you worry about trying more advanced forms, before successfully using a standard form, it will just hold you back. More experienced dreamers may be using visualization based tricks to enhance their success, but at first please just stick with Gab's straight forward outline, or take Sageous' class. ie: Do not bother with the diving board, until you learn to swim. Best of luck, Sivason
I would suggest trying this coming out of a dream first (DEILD). As soon as you feel yourself waking up, try your technique; if you get vibrations, that is; otherwise try something similar. When I was a beginner this was easiest, yet I was not able to do this on a cold WILD until I had a feel for it and some experience. I alter different methods depending on the situation; for example if I hear sounds I concentrate on them and amplify them. Other times I just focus on the space between my eyebrows until I feel my dream body, and this works extremely well, especially if I had inadvertently opened my eyes or sat up beforehand. Timing is of course the issue here, and it is easier to get the timing if you are half asleep already. I have never tried to control vibrations, as mine are usually very violent and brief to start with; but I have read of others using this method to exit and to maintain.Quote:
Originally Posted by fogelbise
Keep it simple as Sivason says, but if you have some experience toying with DEILD or a lot of experience with concentration meditation (highly recommended), you will have some measure of control on a regular WILD, but you will know this to be the case when the opportunity presents itself (having felt it before).
I dont get it...Wake induced?
Something i just dont understand from this tutorial or any others i've read:
-I go to sleep at midnight
-I set an alarm for 4:30
*Do i get up for half an hour? wake up a lot and then return to bed at 5:00?
*Do i just turn off the alarm?
-Then for the actual WILD part am I falling asleep like usual or is it different? I know i should be thinking about dreaming in my head, almost forming a dream myself but if i do that i never actually fall asleep into the dream, i just stay awake thinking about that until i fall asleep and wake up hours later with no signs of lucidity
Thanks :)
^^ It's actually "wake initiated," which simply means that you move from wake to dream without ever losing consciousness, as opposed to DILD's "dream initiated," where the awareness begins during the dream, after you've lost consciousness.
As for the rest, I think my DVA WILD class ought to answer most of your questions, as it discusses things like timing and WBTB; you might want to give it a look.
Unfortunately it is an art. In being an art it is not easy to learn. It is easy enough to do, after you have a feel for it and have an understanding for new and foreign ideas. How much you wake yourself up, is going to depend on experience. Some people need to wake up a bit, or they plummet right back into normal sleep, while others can never fall back to any form of sleep if they interrupt their sleep too much. Again, it is an art, not a science.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbob619
You must understand that you are attempting to reach a new altered state of awareness. It is weird and new to beginners. By altered state, I mean maintaining some conscious awareness of the mind, while allowing your body to fall asleep. You are trying to fall asleep. Never forget that, you must let your body sleep (perhaps not at advanced levels, but at first) AND you must not loose consciousness.
I wish I could tell you in a couple sentences how to do this, but it is a complex idea. Sageous has taken the time to run an entire class devoted to helping you get your first few WILDs, so check it out. The super brief basic idea is that you need to give your mind something limited to stay aware of, such as repeating a phrase. I use the phrase "Thank You." I repeat "Thank You" (and other things) in my head over and over. If you fail to keep doing this you know you are failing to maintain awareness, and just resume doing it if you notice. This reduces mental noise and distractions that would keep you laying awake. You should never think detailed waking thoughts about work and school or you will not sleep. Mean while you must learn to relax the body and infact stop paying it any awareness. See, complicated...
With that in mind Gab's tutorial is an outline of HOW it is done, and Sageous' class is there to help you with the thought process and mind set.
Good luck, hope that clears it up a tiny bit.
Thanks for the help guys, I started reading those tutorials and followed some of Sageous' classees. Very helpful! Hopefully i'll hit my first lucid dream some time soon!
This is one of the best explanations of why WILD so tricky that I've come across in a month of doing LD research, thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by sivason
After a few attempts, I can attest to the "balancing on the edge of a blade" it takes to successfully WILD. I always so far fall back onto the side of wakefulness once I (think) I start getting close. Practicing keeping your balance until you make it into the dream is what it's all about. You must learn about yourself and how you fall asleep when you do this.
yesterday i woke up in the middle of the night, and trying a WBTB, or something like, open the dream views website on my android and start to read and think about, and achieve some tutorials...i've felt a coolest visualization, and a easy experience to see throught my imagination. at some point i turn to the otherside of bed, and start sleeping normally, and i remember having some vibrations, like if im being stoned, or just falling i dont know, but i remembered today that in the beggining of the dream ( i think) i was in other room, on the couch, and i was practicing the WILD technique on the same position that i was in my bed. But i just keep it if it was waking life...have to try a nap tomorrow, it feels better to me to attempt WILD.
That's great that you had a dream about practicing for a WILD! That means that your mind is listening to what you do and what you want to happen. Keep reading and practicing. Good luck:alien:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicarious
Thanks! im gonna try now a nap, and try WILD. its great for hypnagogia! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by gab
Let us know how it goes. But even if you don't get HH, as you don't always do, you can still get a LD. Just pay attention to see if you get that "dreamy" feeling. And do motionless RCs if you think you could be dreaming. The transition could be so smooth, that you will never notice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicarious
Try to see if you can see your hands. Don't use muscles to move them, just your intent. If you move your dream hands, you know you are dreaming and you can get up from the sofa.
This time maybe i hadnt that excitement, because i was just one hour on my nap, and then i just quit. The Last time i did it, i felt more nice Hypnagogic episodes...this time i just felt, the sensation of falling in the floor of my kitchen, but i scare the crap out of me, and i just felt in the real world again. this last two days i'vent been in the lucid dream thoughs so much...i spend two days without doing RC's and thinking about that, and in fact, my last 2 nights i had weak dreams...with a poor recall that its not the usual on me (even before i get into the LD stuff and thoughts). and what you mean by "HH" ?Quote:
Originally Posted by gab
HH are hypnagogic hallucinations. They are also called HI - hypnagogic images.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicarious
If you know that you may experience all kinds of sensation or HH, you could prepare yourself for that and not get excited or scared when something strange happens. Because no matter what happens, they are all hallucinations and they can not hurt you in any way.
Try to remember, that no matter how "real" you feel, you may be in a dream. Think about that during day. "wow, this feels real, but what if I'm in a dream"? Because remember, how "real" everything feels in a dream. We believe everything, we don't question anything in a dream, because it feels so real. Plus, that part of the brain which would tell us that we are not in a dream is asleep. That's what we are trying to keep awake with daytime awareness and when we WILD.
And don't worry about recall. That fluctuates for everybody. Sometimes for no apparent reason. It could be stress, different sleep schedule, being too tired and not waking up between sleep cycles,... It will come back. Just keep dream journaling and thinking and appreciating your dreams.
Excellent tutorial. Answered nearly all of my questions.
Last night I woke myself up around 5 hours after I'd gone to sleep, and tryed to WILD. Was trying to do it on my back which isnt my normal sleeping position so it wasnt very comfortable. Plus the swallowing got in my way a little bit. I got into the hypnagogic state, but I didn't feel like sleeep paralysis had actually kicked in yet. I only lost feeling in my hands and in my legs. I read somewhere tbat you're supposed to lose feeling everywhere except for your head. Also, the hypnagogic state is when you start seeing and hearing strange things, right?
Gonna attempt again tonight. Might be succesful as a result of this tutorial.
Thanks for all advices, i really appreciate that. im thinking of starting a real dream journal, maybe in my phone, texting the ideas and feelings and fragments of dreams, because normally i had a good recall, and i dont write them down (and i know that is important to write our dreams, to force our intention that dreams are important to us ), i mean, there are a lot of dreams that i still remember nowadays, dreams that had 10 years, dreams that i had on childhood etc. But, i will do dream journal, and focus more on that. thanks :)Quote:
Originally Posted by gab
-To The newbies of Lucid dreaming-
WILD is not as difficult as it sounds. Just look at it in a basic way; Wake up after 4-6 hours, stay up anywhere between 45 minutes and 1 hour, and go back to sleep whilst imagining a landscape/place.
This is a very great, and useful tutorial, it is just quite detailed. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, i'm just saying it makes things seem a lot more difficult than they actually are.
Everyone is different, but this is probably the most given up on technique out there. That is why i posted this.