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Which one do you think is more exciting, a lucid dream or a psychedelic trip, and why? Can be any kind of drug trip, ex: magic mushroom, LSD, DMT, salvia, peyote, etc...
I personally enjoy lucid dreams more than any drug because a lucid state is so much more real than most drug hallucinations/ trances. You can delve into your own mind.
what is a psychedelic trip?
A psychedelic trip is when you get high on a psychoactive drug, like LSD or magic mushrooms.
Not psychoactive, psychadelic. There's a HUGE difference.
For definition I'd say a psychadelic experience, an experience brought on by the use of a psychadelic drug, such as psilocybin, LSD, Salvia Divinorum, LSA, or DMT.
I've never tried any psychedelic drug IRL, but while dreaming I've taken mushrooms and LSD. (Check out my thread below this one for some interesting thoughts about dream drugs).
I remember one experience (non-lucid), where I took some LSD and then sat at my computer and waited for it to kick in. Then suddenly out of the blue a buzzing, vibrating state of mind kicked me hard in the face everything started moving and becoming more vivid in colour. The experience was so overwhealming that I woke up shortly there after.
I wonder what actually happens in the brain when you take a drug in a dream. Somehow the brain is stimulated even though there is no chemical involved. Weird...
It's probably mainly expectations, since they play such a large part in such things with the dreaming mind.
Yeah expectations obviously shape your experience. But that doesn't really explain the core of the experience. What's really going on? There is no physical change in your brain, thus normal emotions are excluded (since when you wake up, the effects are completely gone, not even a sign of them, nor the feelings associated with the experience). So it's like ghost-emotions. The come and go real quickly. But from where do they stem?
Not a huge difference. Definition of psychoactive from Merriam Websters Dictionary: affecting the mind or behavior (psychoactive drugs). Do psychedelics not affect the mind or behavior?Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernova
I've done my fair share of psychedelics and had many lucid dreams. To be completely fair...I'd have to compare my most exciting drug trip with my most exciting lucid dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom
I'd have to say lucid dream wins.
If you think about it...it's like comparing really trippy intense Hynogagic Hallucinations and Lucid Dreaming. Which is more exciting?
Psychoactive includes a much, much broader range of drugs. You have the small group that is psychadelics, whereas psychoactive would encompass most everything on erowid's big list, everything from things milderineffect than caffeine, to say. DMT...clearly quite a large difference. It's like the thig with squares and rectangles. Psychadelics certainly are psychoactives, but most psychoactives are not psychadelics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom
I agree. What could possibly be trippier than being in your own reality where you can change anything? All my lucid dreams trump my most intense psychedelic journeys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquanina
Ok, I stand corrected. I guess I pretty much meant to include anything that can trip you out. So psychedelics, psychoactives, whatever. All hallucinogenic drugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernova
I quite enjoy entheogenic (lit. devine-producing) substances like mescalin, dmt (dimethyltryptamine), lsd, cubensis and corticeps fungi.
I would have to say that while these substances are incredibly intriguing and worthy of study; even my most intense psychedelic journeys only come close to topping my most lucid dream experiences.
Can you actually fly on acid? Chances are, no.
In a lucid dream? Just watch.
lucid dreams are far better than any drug. i mean come on, your in a world with no boundaries and you can do absolutely anything you can imagine.
now dont get me wrong, i do enjoy a good dose of psilocybin mushrooms from time to time
Are psychadelics legal?
Most are not. LSD, Psylocybe mushrooms, DMT and many other incredible substances are illegal. For some reason the government has grouped most psychedelics in with other harmful drugs. They don't understand how these chemicals can change a persons life for the better.
There are a couple psychedelics that are legal, such as salvia (in some countries).
I'm from the United States, so I speak of US laws against drugs. I don't know where other countries stand on it.
Most are pretty similar unfortunately. :( Although I get the impression US laws are particularly harsh, is that true?
It sure seems like it! Almost everything with potential for abuse is highly controlled. And psychedelics that are completely harmless, like shrooms, are outlawed and have high penalties for offense. :(
However, in California, Cannabis is quickly becoming legalized. It is soon to be completely legal to recreationally use marijuana in the state of California, and to cultivate your own plants. Many other states are legalizing cannabis for medicinal use.
Hmmm...well, I'll have to go against the grain here and say that I've had much more compelling, memorable and moving experiences on a variety of psychedelic trips than in any lucid dream, and neither can compare to waking visions experienced with no aids other than nature, poetry, and/or sustained meditation practice. I've also had some pretty intense experiences with nothing but cannabis, booze and dancing. Of all these, lucid dreams may be the least amazing, but they're also the one I'd want to / could stand to do the most often. I won't be taking psychedelics or even dancing 2-3 times per week, but I'm a happy boy when my lucids are coming that frequently.
I appreciate your differentiating view. I have definitely had some incredible and intense experiences with psychedelics and cannabis. Plus one thing that I enjoy about taking psychedelics more than lucid dreams is that you can share your experience with other people. I have felt true connections with some of my closest friends while tripping mushrooms, almost like our souls were connected or something.
But he didn't ask what was more compelling, memorable, or moving. He asked what was more exciting. So I'm assuming that is how you define exciting? I'm just wondering, because how the initial question was phrased definitely affected my answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taosaur
I guess I read the question as something like, "What elicits the highest state of arousal?" and for me more depth to an experience does translate to a higher state of arousal--I was seeing it as a quantitative, not a qualitative difference, though on reflection I suppose some of those experiences I would say were deep, but not fun, whereas others were both deep and fun. Still, even in terms of pure fun/stimulation, the ranking holds:Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquanina
1. Samadhi
2. Dancing (psychedelic or otherwise)
3. Psychedelic trip (dancing or otherwise)
4. Lucid dreaming
Off topic posts moved here: http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=92668
Are you serious? Recreational use huh? We need to go on a road trip there :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom
But anyways, I can't really compare lucid dreaming to a drug induced trip. They are completely different. Both extremely exciting, but one you can control and one you can't.
I'd have to say psychedelic trips hold more meaning and excitement to me if I had to choose. Trips give me more "knowledge" of myself and "reality". And lucid dreams is just one big amusement park. Although, I have had lucid dreams where I didn't know what was would happen next. Kind of like a dream, but with lucid consciousness.
I just can't decide haha.
This is exactly what I was thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taosaur
Well, it's sort of an apples-to-oranges comparison if you ask me. Lucid dreams are about going on adventures, and doing stuff you can't normally do... With psychedelics, it's more like your perceptions are expanded, and you can feel and sense things you couldn't before. It's very hard to describe but due to my limited experiences with lucid dreaming I suppose I'll go with psychedelics (until I can start having some major LDs).
That's like comparing apples and oranges. Regarding the mere matter of excitement, psychedelic trips are probably more arousing, because they are hard to control if at all. Eat some belladonna (don't!), then you'll know what I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom
Apart from that half of the substances you mentioned aren't even psychedelics.
Care to cite some examples? I haven't seen a single non-psychadelic drug mentioned. Except belladonna, that is. Deleriant, poison
Every drug I have mentioned so far is a psychedelic, my friend. Belladonna certainly is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Planewalker
DMT, Sage and Peyote do not belong in that category.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom
List of Psychedelic Drugs
Quote:
Serotonergic psychedelics (serotonin 5-HT2A receptor agonists)
This class of psychedelics includes the major hallucinogens, including the ergolines like LSD and LSA, tryptamine-based compounds like psilocybin and DMT, and phenethylamine-based compounds like mescaline and 2C-B.
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Empathogen-entactogens (serotonin releasers)
The empathogen-entactogens are phenethylamines such as MDMA (Ecstasy), MDA, and MDEA, among others.
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Cannabinoids (CB-1 cannabinoid receptor agonists)
The cannabinoid tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and related compounds are capable of activating the brain's endocannabinoid system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_drugQuote:
Salvia divinorum is an atypical psychedelic.
Quote:
A psychedelic substance is a psychoactive drug whose primary action is to alter the cognition and perception of the mind. Psychedelics are part of a wider class of psychoactive drugs known as hallucinogens, which also includes related substances such as dissociatives and deliriants. Unlike other drugs such as stimulants and opioids which induce familiar states of consciousness, psychedelics tend to bend and twist the mind in ways that result in the experience being qualitatively different from those of ordinary consciousness. The psychedelic experience is often compared to non-ordinary forms of consciousness such as trance, meditation, yoga, and dreaming.
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Many pharmacologists define psychedelic drugs solely as chemicals that have an LSD- or mescaline-like action, working on the serotonin 5-HT2A receptor in the brain. Some people have applied the term psychedelic to other hallucinogens including dissociative NMDA receptor antagonists such as phencyclidine, dextromethorphan, and ketamine, tropane deliriants such as atropine, and other psychoactives such as Amanita muscaria, cannabis (to some extent), Salvia divinorum.
Tough question, I would say as far as excitment goes there about equal but dreaming is way more important to me and has value beyond just fun and excitment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom
Ive also found that having an awakening can be way more exciting. The visuals are better and the sensual experience is also beter than any drug Ive ever done. (I'm guessing that this is what taosaur is refering to as samadhi)
Don't get me wrong, I dont realy do alot of drugs any more, "getting older" Just alcohol and maby a doobie or two on the weekend while working (musician) Too many peoply there I know who have it.
Besides drugs interfere with my dreaming too much.
Ever dream of taking a psychedelic? Ever take a psychedelic in a dream? Ever trip on a psychedelic and think your dreaming? Food for thought haha.
The only time I've ever tripped on a psychedelic and thought you were dreaming was when I first smoked pot (dank) and I legitimately thought I was in a dream. It was even trippier because I was outside at night. I've also achieved the same effect with shrooms.. but I fell asleep mid-trip so that kind of ruined it.. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom
And in my dreams, I've done every drug I have done in real life, at least 4 times over. Fun stuff :)
:facepalm:
I like lucid dreams just because you can do anything. If you jump off a roof in a lucid dream, you fly away, doing that on acid has caused the death of many hippies.
I find them both fun, in very different ways. I find philosophy and engineering fascinating while hallucinating, and the colours and sounds of a drug trip are so much fun. But for safety and lucid sex, and flying, LD > LSD.
I haven't tried many drugs in my life. The most intense i did was a legal substance which is said to be just like marijuana, only stronger and involves closed-eye hallucinations.
It was great and everything: Every time i closed my eyes there were these incredibly complex patterns (really, you can't understand how complex and precise they were) and it was constantly zooming out of it, revealing that those were only a small part of something bigger, and it kept going on. Music was strange, if i focused on it, i was able to slow it down somehow.
Anyway, it was great, but didn't get even close to my LDs, which aren't even that long for me yet (i'm kind of a beginner).
I didn't try LSD or anything like that, but from my personal experience, Lucid Dreaming is the best. And i hope i'll be able to get the maximum out of it.
I've never had a lucid dream, but i've went off the deep end with mushrooms and ended up in a dream-like place that i could manipulate, so it was pretty much a lucid dream, but heavily psilocybin induced. It was all in my head. I took 5 grams of p. cubensis to achieve this. I've had several life changing experiences happen during a psychedelic trip. If you havent reached the higher levels of the psychedelic mindstate, it's really hard to describe, but it's well worth delving into it yourself. Just have a sober/experienced person around.
Those must of been some great (dank) shrooms! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Headspace
But yea, I've also gone off the deep end a couple of times. My first big acid trip, I thought I died. For 4 straight hours I was walking around my house talking to faces in the wall, and ghosts floating around (what I thought were ghosts were just shadows and light reflections from my window shining out from the street light. But the shadows and lights morphed and moved around).
Don't want to stray too off-topic so.. I've had 3 dreams where I did a psychedelic drugs, last week (must of been from reading this thread). Actual tripping is a lot better tho.
had to put my first post here. only really had a few psychadelic trips but lots of lucid dreams. id have to be annoying and say that the best parts of the trips were the bits that were like dreams, while the best dreams have often involved psychadelic type experiences, and even taking dream versions of things like salvia. almost like they meet in the middle somewhere. hello all
Ego death huh? Everytime I do drugs in my dreams they all feel the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Motumz
Sounds like salvia maybe?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xegar
Naw I wouldn't call it ego death, because I've felt that and it was pretty different. It was more like a trip, where I thought I was dead. I didn't panic or anything, I was just kind of at peace? It's hard to explain I guess haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom
My first LD, before I knew the term "lucid dream," I was tripping with this girl I was on-and-off with at the time, and realized it wasn't the real her. Realizing that people I'm looking at are not who they appear to be is probably my #1 dream sign leading to LDs.
Ego death isn't always scary. You can have an ego death experience without any panic or fear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Motumz
Hmm, interesting. Than I guess what I experienced with the Salvia ego death was more of a drop-kick to the face kind of ego death. And the Acid induced ego death last week was more of a calm accepting ego death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom
I have to say though, even if ego death can go both ways, either frightening or enlightening; they make for great mind expanding trips.
What I found more exciting was having a lucid dream while on mushrooms.
The dream was hard to maintain, although the adventure (while short lived) was exciting.
the first time i had ego death it was really intense cause i didnt really know what was happening and i kinda tried to fight it. the next couple of times i experienced ego death it was quite pleasant.
Same for me. My first encounter with ego death nearly made me shit my pants I was so scared. It takes awhile to get used to.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesLD
I gotta disagree with everyone here. I've only had a few LDs, none of them too out of the ordinary so maybe I'm not experienced enough to answer, but I say tripping is MUCH better. Shrooms have given me insights about myself, the world, people, relationships, sex, the mind in general, etc. I feel like I can delve into my own mind with psychedelics, whereas LDing for me as been simply recreational. As I've said, I'm not an experienced lucid dreamer, so I really don't know. I can't see any lucid dream comparing to 5 grams of some strong mushies, however. We'll see.
same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Ninja
Exactly. Lucid Dreaming for me has always seemed to be just a playground for my mind, still fun though, I'm not saying I don't enjoy it. But tripping seems to be more of exploring your own mind and seeing the world as it really is. As well as learning new things about yourself ect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Ninja
As someone already said, it's comparing apples and oranges. But if I had to choose, I'd pick tripping 100%. Especially because you can trip with a close friend, and become closer with them and build a stronger bond between each other. And it's just fun haha.
No, i haven't tried salvia. It's something you can buy in a grocery store. I don't want to say it because i don't want people to go buy it and overdose themselves or something. (Not like they could eat it that easily :))Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom
I highly doubt a grocery store. But I guess you've done it. Was it LSA?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xegar
No. I wanted to try that, but didn't have luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Motumz
Okay, fine, its was a kind of spice (no, not that legal herb mix. a simple spice). But really, don't try it. Requires much time to feel the effects and they last for hours. Then you feel bad for 2 days. You have to read enough about a substance if you want to try it.
But come on, this isn't a psychedelic forum :S
i must say, in my journey to become a lucid dreamer i have become more aware of the world around me, im not on auto pilot anymore, ive been unplugged from the matrix. pscilocybin has also helped with this though lol the two together have drastically changed my life for the better
Hah, yep. It's crazy when I look back and see how much of a "robot" I was. I can't wait to see how much more lucidity I gain when I try DMT though.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesLD
Gonna go see the elves?Quote:
Originally Posted by Motumz
I've not experienced a psychadelic trip yet, so anything I can say about them is secondhand. That said, I believe lucid dreaming can be used to many of the same ends as psychadelics, but psychadelics are the more...direct route. Psychadelics can do things LD can't, just like LD's can do things psychadelics can't.
P.S. Offtopic: James, I'm lovin' your lucid goal :P
I would say psychedelics have had a more profound effect on me. In lucid dreams you gain access to an unrestricted virtual sensory environment, but there are realms of being that go beyond just purely sense impressions.
Perhaps lucid dreams have deeper applications than what most would encounter. You may be able to use the dream state to enter into similar levels of being as a psychedelic could produce, taking advantage of the fact that you don't have a body the further move beyond the ego. I'm guessing this is what dream yoga is all about.
NutmegQuote:
Originally Posted by Xegar
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernova
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motumz
Just letting you guys know, you're really skirting the edge of DV's drug policy, namely providing instruction on how to use or produce substances. Xegar is using sensible precautions even in discussing an unregulated substance, but Motumz, you're saying things you really shouldn't say on the web (or by email, or over the phone). One aim of the drug policy here is to prevent members from incriminating themselves--you're not as anonymous as you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xegar
I'm sorry. I can't edit that post. It can be deleted if necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taosaur
I find dreams to be very similar to psychedelic and also dissociatives(ketamine,n2o,dxm) and even deliriants(nutmeg,datura),and out of body experiences
all in all i have had at least 30 trips in my life counting all hallucinogens,and i think about 20 self induced out of body experiences
I have noticed that when i pay attention to the details of my surroundings in dreams that they are very much like psychedelics,like when i look at something and after a few moments look back at it,it is often changed or altered
heavy REM dreams are very psychedelic and very intense and resemble a heavy dmt-experience for a great deal
over all,i enjoy lucid dreaming a lot more then tripping while being awake,however psychedelics are far more efficient at giving you a life changing spiritual experience(only if you trip in the right way,with the right intend)
you must realize that all psycho-actives(drugs) are basically keys to open chemical reactions in the brain,meaning that the experience ultimately is caused by your own brain,the drugs merely serve as triggers
that being the case ,hallucinogens are probably deeply connected with how the mind dreams
next week im doing a solo trip with an eighth of mushrooms, im so excited! ill let you guys know how it goes
No worries, Xegar--I was mostly using you as an example of how to do it right :cheeky:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xegar
As long as everyone is aware that explicit instructions are not kosher, we're good.
Please do, I love solo trips.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesLD
I personally Have yet to become lucid in the essence that I can control my dreams, but I am an avid tripper in reality.
So far I will say that trips seem to be more fun, such as LSD/Shrooms, But I'd like to get to the point in dreams where maybe I can trip, tripping in a lucid dream.. Hmm new goal =)
Really? I've always found that I'm just really confused when I trip alone. I never know what to do, and I usually just end up falling asleep. I prefer tripping with my best friend :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom
Also, has anybody looked up at the stars while tripping? I did it just this weekend while laying on my trampoline on a higher dose than usual and it was the most amazing thing I've ever seen. I saw millions of stars and and the edge of the Milky Way. I kept leaving my body and going into the universe. Best experience of my life.
But yea, the reason I saw all those stars was because it was completely dark outside (no moon), and I live kind of out there from the city, so there was minimal light pollution. Anyways, me and my friend both think we saw a ton more stars than usual was because our pupils were at the biggest they could expand, so therefore receiving more light from other stars that usually we couldn't see. But I dunno. Either way it was incredible.
i personally feel that tripping alone is a great way to open the doors of youre mind, it gives you a lot of time to do some deep thinking and see life from a whole new perspective. it sure has opened my eyes. you can do absolutely anything you want cause theres no one there to hold you back. the second time i experienced ego death was on a solo trip and i completely let go of reality and had the most peaceful and psychedelic experience ever. you could say, my third eye was squeegeed clean!
dont get me wrong though, i do enjoy tripping with a group of close friends.
Tripping with a best friend, sibling, or girlfriend/ boyfriend can be really amazing, but doing a solo trip can be one of the most rewarding psychedelic experiences ever. Shrooms by myself in a pretty dark room with my favorite playlist on is incredible. It's like unlocking your mind to roam free for a couple hours. With the right dose (not too much) you can literally take your mind any where, it's quite liberating. Using marijuana by yourself is also a great experience. Try focusing on your subconscious thoughts (what I like to call pot thoughts, haha). It's kind of like creating your own isolation tank, of sorts. Just try to shut down all intake of the senses. Sit in a dark room in the quiet by yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Motumz
No I know what you mean. With high doses of LSD or 2C-I, every time I'm in darkness I loose basically all psychical senses, basically 100% of ego death every time I can't see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom
But also, when tripping with my best friend, we give each other time to trip alone. We would both put on trance and lay back and leave our body. It was pretty fucking crazy last time. When I laid back, I went into the pillow I was holding over my head (to block out the light coming from my visualizer) and I saw this (no joke):
http://image-bb.com/out.php/i8187_1271167914763.jpg
And I never even thought about the image (I had seen it before), it just appeared when I went inside the pillow and kept going forwards from there. It was quite spectacular.
^I've seen that same image...although of course it wasn't static like that as all the "pillars" were spinning around and into infinity like a fractal. Nice artwork though...I wish I could paint some of the stuff I've seen.
Btw guys keep in mind the purpose of this thread...if you just want to talk about drugs and share experiences, we have a thread for that already. ;)
Sorry for further off topic posting, but what drug were you on? Or was it in a dream? :OQuote:
Originally Posted by Aquanina
Also, for half an on-topic post :D I'd like to say half my dreams have drugs in it now haha. Not sure why. But I think it's because I haven't been using drugs at all lately, and my mind has been wanting an altered state of mind again? Dunno.
dmt definitely over lucid dreaming. iv done dmt alot its always a life changing experience cured my depression i had for years :)
I choose lucid dreaming as more exciting. Yes while "tripping out" it can be fun but I find lucid dreams to be more in my control and more vivid. The fact that there are no limits to what one can do in their dreams also dwarfs the trips you get from psychedelics.
I also think that peoples answers depend on their lucid dreaming skills. If they are masters and can do anything they please as vividly as real life, then they would pick lucid dreaming. If they have had only a few lucids and have little to control they will pick psychedelics.
Hmm, it's a pretty close tie in my opinion. My most meaningful and intense psychedelic trips are comparable in significance to my most meaningful and intense lucid dreams. It really depends on the context though; you could have a cloudy, barely lucid dream or you could have a bad trip or bad drugs. Although, for me at least, once you experience something in real life it's pretty easy to recreate in the dream world. I've taken LSD and mushrooms in lucid dreams and it was pretty close to the real thing, for the most part. Drugs are like doors in a way - once you find the door you can open it at any time in your dreams.
They each have their own pros and cons. Apples and oranges, really.
I agree full on with this. Once you have experienced something in real life its extremely easy to replicate in your dreams (with proper dream control). Which begs the question, what do babies dream about then? At birth since they have experienced so little what could babies dream about? Lol, just a thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by blahaha
Hmmm. I was curious if I would find a thread about this topic in here and quite excited to come across it. Years ago when I first noticed I was dreaming and was (by chance) remaining asleep through it all, I didn't know the term for it. Much time passed before I had another similar experience, but the trend always seemed to occur during a nap. I am just becoming adjusted and acclimating myself to the website so once I get a handle on all the information on techniques and beliefs of the why and how, then maybe I could contribute more to this thread. As for now I would say a heavy dose of philosopher stones (sclerotia) to enjoy prior to sleep has produced lucid dreaming for me vs. a mushroom trip. Maybe it is the combination of the the sclerotia having both psilocybin and psilocine vs most mushrooms only containing psilocybin that reacts in the body to psilocin. More trial and error is needed. Maybe the non-visual effects of sclerotia and the deeper thoughts allow for more lucidity whereas when falling asleep after a mushroom trip, the brain has been overloaded for too many hours and reduces the chances for lucid dreaming. I can say though that when falling asleep on shrooms (which is kinda rare for most people), the dreams can be quite vivid and easier to remember in greater detail when I awake. Somewhat similar to putting on a nicotine patch and taking a nap...the dreams are civid for me, but uncontrollable and non lucid.
Yeah, but for the moment, at least, lucid dreaming is still lega... *arrrghhhhhh*!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom
You can learn much from gaining control in your dreams. You can learn much from losing control in waking life.