"Audio Constructed Dreams" Anyone think this will work?

While deep into a REM state and a dream the other night, a loud BANG of some sort of construction outside suddenly started making it's way into my dream.

It was strange, I was totally unaware I was dreaming or that my dream was being influenced by an external stimuli, but the bangs were being incorporated and integrated fully into my dream as a logical part of the story.

It wasn't until I woke up that I realized there was banging going on outside which was the cause. This isn't the first time that's happened, I recall years ago an alarm clock making its way into my final stages of REM sleep as well.

So, a thought occurred to me since I had recently been studying lucid dreaming: Perhaps it would be possible to utilize this phenomena to alter, or custom tailor, ones dreams? I've heard of people using audio recordings before to repeat "You are dreaming, wake up and become lucid" though i'm not sure if that's worked -- but that's not what i'm getting at here.

What i'm getting at is actually constructing an 'audio book' - getting voice actors (friends, or yourself works, I do video work so I could make my own) - and tons of sound effects - and literally writing a script of some kind and putting it together.

Then, while asleep, looping it. If all goes according to plan, the right combination of elements should be able to influence your dreams so you'll end up dreaming about what you're listening to: In all essence, choosing what your dreams are! For those of you like me, who have a hard time altering your lucid dreams (I can only interact with mine never create what I want) it could be a good way to set the stage to get the right dream atmosphere right away. Otherwise it could just be a lot of fun to start dreaming about more interesting things.

Does anyone think this will work? I have my sincere doubts, but i'm going to try anyway. Has anyone attempted this before? I'd love to hear suggestions, feedback, scientific fact behind this, anything you guys can offer would be great!

Edit: I apologize if this should have been made in the "general dream" section, I didn't really think it through, this type of thing could be utilized for lucid dreaming however, so, I duno.

I have been using this idea to shape the dream (experimental). I use a light that goes off at regular intervals to trigger a memory of the thing to do in the dream. It can influence the dream but it depends on what you were thinking when the stimulus is activated during the dream. Like when the light went off I knew it was 2am because I set it at that time to go off and as a result my thoughts were about lucid dreaming and the dream changed to lucid dreaming theme so yeah it works...:). It's alot of experimenting with the timing to hit REM...at first I used every half an hour but it was too close and I had difficulty sleeping, there wasn't enough sleep time. So I changed it to one hour..still too close. Then hour and a half and added another half after that...it was almost perfect but still felt anxiety..:(. So I don't know how your mind will react to things that go off when you are trying to sleep...lots of experimenting to find the best and most comfortable timing and yet go off at REM.

IMJ

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Originally Posted by imj

I have been using this idea to shape the dream (experimental). I use a light that goes off at regular intervals to trigger a memory of the thing to do in the dream. It can influence the dream but it depends on what you were thinking when the stimulus is activated during the dream. Like when the light went off I knew it was 2am because I set it at that time to go off and as a result my thoughts were about lucid dreaming and the dream changed to lucid dreaming theme so yeah it works.

IMJ

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Hey, that's great to know it's possible to control a stimuli to mold your dream state! Thanks for sharing your experience with me, it's awfully encouraging! :)

What I think could be great about this is that aside from 30 minutes of silence in the beginning of the "audio book" (to help you get to sleep) it'd be continuous, rather then in intervals it'd be always playing, that way no matter when your dream session picks up the first thing your mind is exposed to is already under your control. Plus, your subconscious potentially was exposed to the tape already playing prior to entering a dream state anyway (since it was 'always playing') so i'm banking on the hope that simply by flooding your brain with the audio signals you want to dream about - as well as very repetitive persuasive language - will be enough to shape your mental images long after you've lost consciousness.

I'm going to try none the less, I hope it works!

Let me know how it goes man, because I'm interested in trying this too.

I'm guessing you could get it to work to some extent, but to what extent I don't know. I know I'm too light of a sleeper to try for this. I have noticed external stimuli in my dreams, but they always wake me up shortly thereafter. One was my neighbor's alarm which in the dream ended up being a security alarm in the building I was in. Another was a bird chirping outside my window which in the dream was a police officer repeating the name Joe over and over.

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Originally Posted by Optics

Hey, that's great to know it's possible to control a stimuli to mold your dream state! Thanks for sharing your experience with me, it's awfully encouraging! :)

What I think could be great about this is that aside from 30 minutes of silence in the beginning of the "audio book" (to help you get to sleep) it'd be continuous, rather then in intervals it'd be always playing, that way no matter when your dream session picks up the first thing your mind is exposed to is already under your control. Plus, your subconscious potentially was exposed to the tape already playing prior to entering a dream state anyway (since it was 'always playing') so i'm banking on the hope that simply by flooding your brain with the audio signals you want to dream about - as well as very repetitive persuasive language - will be enough to shape your mental images long after you've lost consciousness.

I'm going to try none the less, I hope it works!

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Although it's an objective method it still requires faith for it to work...:P.

IMJ

Yeah, how heavy of a sleep you are is definitely an important factor. I'm a fairly moderate sleeper, so long as there's no noise bothering me as i'm going to sleep, I won't notice it as i'm sleeping, unless it's extremely loud or such. Typically I only notice stimuli consciously (that wake me up) when i'm in that 'waking up state' of my last few dreams of the night. Otherwise they don't usually make it into my dreams, but there aren't many around to make it into my dreams anyway.

I'll have to experiment - it may be that i'm too heavy a sleeper, in which case i'll have to work on methods or ideas (such as simply turning the volume up) to get it just right for my sleeping patterns. For your case, perhaps doing it in very short bursts at a very soft relaxing non alarming way would be better. I guess it really depends.


By day job I'm a script writer so I have some experience with story structure, and speaking as a story writer I think it's ex termly important that very few story techniques for film or television (or even literature) make its way into these 'dream books.' Since these are being written for the mind, the key is to make sure they're extremely repetitive, specific, authoritative, and limited.

For example, if in your 'dream story' you want to become Luke Skywalker and blow up the death star, you can't narrate it as you would the original Star Wars movie. You'd have to use a lot of techniques to continually reinforce your mind that you're doing this, and then let your mind create the atmosphere.

You'd have a 'narrator' for example say 'You climb into the cockpit of the space jet.' Then instead of having it take off, you have your own voice "think" to itself perhaps with an echo to indicate this: "Wow, I can't believe i'm in a jet fighter. I'm actually going to be fighting the death star. I'm going to be .. " and so on. Even still then, you'd have perhaps another character radio into you: "Hey, Joe, I see you've entered your fighter. Good luck buddy." And then you can finally move on and have it take off, and you could use a sound effect to help aid the scene.

Those are my thoughts so far anyway.. thanks for the responses so far guys, you've given me a ton of ideas!

And I'll of course be sure to let you know how it turns out, good or bad!

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Although it's an objective method it still requires faith for it to work...

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Yeah, you have to WANT to dream about what you're going to dream about. I do, so I don't think that'll be too big a problem! :)

A script writer...cool! I bet you already made enough epic dream scripts to send to Hollywood...:D. I like the idea of dream scripting but have no idea to script writing...:P. But in my opinion if anyone can get this idea of remembering to do what they planned by the aid of external stimulus linked with the memory it's the best way to control dream content. But if it's the feeling of "I'm dreaming" that excites then it may not serve that purpose.

IMJ

This is a great idea, Optics! No, it's a GRAND idea! I say that because I actually tried it several weeks ago. The results are in my DJ, but I haven't posted to my online DJ for quite some time, so it'll no doubt be buried many pages deep. But basically, I used WMP to play nothing but silence for about 4 hours. Then after the silence, I had my own voice say, "Dan. You're dreaming!" It was my hopes that I would be in a REM period and the sound of my own voice would induce a LD. But since the message only played once, I didn't hear it. Could have been too quiet, or maybe I did hear it, but don't remember becoming lucid! Anyway, I tried again a few nights later, but with the volume higher. This time, I ended up waking myself up. However, it's interesting to note that I woke up to a loud "Dreaming!". I didn't hear the first two words. I'm sure I did, but I don't remember...and I don't remember any dreams before that.

Anyway, I think I'll try it again someday, but with the quieter volume and more repetitive.

How is it? Looks like it wasn't a success.

IMJ

I didn't get to try it yet, i'm still preparing how I want to handle it (the material) plus I need a solid night to try it out on, which could be a while due to my busy schedule. I'll make sure to post whatever results I get as soon as I get the chance.

I am still struggling with using the light..and my MP3 player chose to spoil...:P:embarrassed:.

IMJ

Hey guys. So I decided to try a quick test last night, I didn't get to finish really "writing" a story, so I just had it loop "You are dreaming. You are now flying high above in the sky" over and over for four hours. This was just to see if anything would make it.

Unfortunately, I encountered the same problem I face when trying to induce a lucid dream through MILD or WILD: I was too excited. Lots of tossing and turning - so that's not a fault in this idea, just my own inability to relax. If anyone can give me any tips there, please do.

Here's something I DID learn though from my experiment: 30 minutes of silence is NOT enough. It's like Chinese water torture: You lay awake trying to "race" the clock to sleep, and it creates a lot of anxiety. Since the most vivid dreams don't happen until very late in a sleep pattern, I've decided for all night rest "tapes" (as opposed to for taking a nap) to include 2 to 4 hours of silence, so I need not worry about beating the timer. Might be something to bare in mind if anyone else is trying this.


All that aside, I DID manage to get to sleep once: I beat the timer that is. However, shortly after, I woke up, with the sound looping in my ears. I checked the timer on my Laptop which was looping the sound: It was 70 minutes in.

The looping didn't start until 30 minutes in, with the first 30 just silence. So that means I was asleep for a good 30 minutes WITH the sound looping in my ears, but I am sad to report that it didn't matter. It's not that the sound didn't make its way into my dream, its that in this 30 min. period I didn't dream AT ALL. My guess is that I wasn't in a REM cycle, and that when I woke up at 70 minutes in, it was becuase I had just entered a dream and the sound woke me up either out of excitement or volume or something. It's also likely that I hadn't entered a dream state at all and the sound just woke me up randomly.

After I woke up I just turned it off becuase I was too tired to continue trying, and couldn't get to sleep knowing the timer was so short.

So does this mean this idea isn't gonna work? No. I haven't had the chance to test it yet, all of the problems I listed above combined with the fact that I never dreamed with the sound on means that I never tested it, only came close to testing it. I'm not gonna be able to run another test until hopefully this weekend. If I get the chance, i'll report back again.

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Originally Posted by imj

I am still struggling with using the light..and my MP3 player chose to spoil...:P:embarrassed:.

IMJ

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Sorry to hear the light didn't work for you, is it waking you up? Or is it just not entering your dream state at all and you sleep through it?

Whatcha mean the MP3 player spoiled?

That happened to me again just last night. I sometimes sleep with my iPhone playing stations. Almost without fail somehow what's being said on the phone is incorporated into my dream. A few nights ago I was dreaming that I was in the middle of a spelling bee. I woke up and sure enough there was a story about a spelling bee going on on the phone.
None of these dreams however have been lucid dreams.
Good idea though worth investigating.

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Originally Posted by Lucid Lobster

That happened to me again just last night. I sometimes sleep with my iPhone playing stations. Almost without fail somehow what's being said on the phone is incorporated into my dream. A few nights ago I was dreaming that I was in the middle of a spelling bee. I woke up and sure enough there was a story about a spelling bee going on on the phone.
None of these dreams however have been lucid dreams.
Good idea though worth investigating.

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Hey, thanks for sharing your experience! That's fantastic news, it means words can still be processed based on their abstract meaning/definition, and not just as "talking."

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Originally Posted by Optics

Hey, thanks for sharing your experience! That's fantastic news, it means words can still be processed based on their abstract meaning/definition, and not just as "talking."

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Now that I think about it it's not just the actual words that make it into the dream. Sometimes the dream symbolically incorporates the MEANING of the words into the dream .. I guess in real time.
I'm a light sleeper too so I keep the volume low and usually do not fall asleep with the audio going. Later in the night when I'm asleep the phone restores it's lost broadband connection and starts playing. Maybe that's the key. I'll try experimenting because you may be on to something. If I could just get this to happen during a lucid dream I may be able to shape the dream based on the audio input. Who knows, this may be going all the time and the only times that I can prove it are when I by chance happen to wake up when it's happening. The transition from dream to reality is quite startling when I realize that what was happening in the dream is also happening in the real world.

I tried this idea again over the weekend. As I described earlier, I had WMP play silence for 2 hours. After that silence, my own voice was recorded and played the message, "Dan, you're dreaming" 3 times in 90 seconds (I was afriad that too much would wake me up). After that, another 3 hours of silence. Again, "Dan, you're dreaming" 3 times in 90 seconds. Here's what I found out, and what I think of my findings:

I slept completely through the first set of recordings (at 2 hours). Don't remember any dreams at all. The second set of recordings woke me up, even though they were not that loud. Again, I don't remember any dreams. However, when I woke up, I thought it was still the first set of recordings. I was about to shut off the computer when I noticed the time was near 6am! I had completely missed the first set of recordings and didn't know it until I checked the time.

I think the reason I missed the first set of recordings is likely due to not being in a REM perioid. And I may have woken up from the second set because I was just coming out of one. That, and the fact that it was my voice. I may try again with someone elses voice, or disguise my own voice as bugs bunny or another impersonation. I think it's good to have a looping message, or set of messages. Something other than "You're dreaming". Which leads me to yet another point. It was my own voice telling me that I'm dreaming. As if there was a clone of me. It might be better to tell myself I'm dreaming, if I use my own voice. Example: "I'm dreaming". Not, "Dan, you're dreaming". And the use of other phrases, as mentioned above. "I'm flying!" and "I can shapeshift!"

Hope this helps in researching the subject!

Tried the method last night again. This time, I had 10 messages playing randomly over and over again. I don't remember any dreams pertaining to the messages. In fact, I found that upon awakening (I woke up twice throughout the night) I had a much harder time remembering my dreams because the messages were still looping over and over, taking away from my concentration. In short, having the message loop over and over continuously all night might not be a great idea.

It doesn't work every time for me so maybe you could try it a few more times. I've also found that when it works for me it's very late in the sleep cycle, almost morning. If none of this works try recording something like a tv show or radio talk show and letting it play at the appropriate time at very low volume .. low but still audible. What really would be neat would be a 30 minute audio of someone discussing lucid dreaming.

Sorry to hear the light didn't work for you, is it waking you up? Or is it just not entering your dream state at all and you sleep through it?

Whatcha mean the MP3 player spoiled?


It's exactly the same as you..30min isn't enough. I was able to overcome the anxiety by having a small 'standby' light on a dimmer left on all night and holding on to a flashlight in one hand and wearing a watch on the other. The tectile sensation and being aware of the smaller light left on reduced the anxiety to a certain extent but it still is difficult to fall asleep like that. The light is not bright enough to wake me up cause it's been adjusted on a dimmer to only light up the eyelids but not cause glare.

My MP3 player is not able to accept any uploads I don't know Y it disconnects by itself, maybe USB is loose but at least I got a chance to test out 30min of silence and inserted a segment of dream music I used to trigger the memory into the dream when it goes off..same as you couldn't sleep...:P.

Reason you did not remember dreaming is that you were too aware to fall into proper sleep. It takes getting used to but meanwhile it's a good idea to push your testing to WBTB slot or you may be loosing sleep.


IMJ