Will Technology In The Future Allow Recordable Dreams?

Hi All, another newbie here!

I've only had one LD so far after having tried for a couple of months and even then it was a random event I think. I wasn't actually trying to become lucid on that particular night.

Now to the question, which may or may not seem dumb depending on your outlook on what is indeed possible either present day or into the future, but do you think that any technology of the future might be able to create a device that would be able to record your dreams in full clarity just as you perceive them in your dream state? That goes for normal and lucid dreams I guess.

Cool concept though I'm sure you'll agree, to have your own wildest dreams re-playable at any time you wish and to study in great detail to see where you might have become lucid in a normal dream if only you'd have performed a RC at the right time :roll:

I've got another idea here after reading about someone being able to become lucid after they went to bed holding a particular object, lets say a rubber ball or something similar etc. Now lets try a similar technique, but this time instead or holding a ball, replace it with a USB memory stick ( you can see where I'm going now, lol ) and every time you become lucid you say to yourself " All the images, sounds and experiences of my dreams will be recorded to the memory stick in Mpeg format" and then see what happens come morning time :lol:

I'll buy a beer to the first person to do it and uploads it to youtube :cheers:

I think you will like this thread: http://dreamviews.com/community/showthread.php?t=69867
Also, welcome to DV and I don't think a USB can catch those waves and then record them lol

Thanks for the warm welcome walms. I must admit I did a quick search around the forums first before posting but never saw that topic at all. Sorry if it seems like a double-topic now.

I believe they already have something that does this. Let's see, what was it called...oh yeah, pencil and paper.

Sorry, I had to say that haha.

There will be no recording technology like a brain scanner that can record and replay dreams. That is because technology is made of physical matter within the physical world. Dreams are no part of that world. The brain may reflect some aspects of dreaming, but that is merely a feedback, not the source.

I think that someday, we may be able to intercept what our eyes think they are seeing. This technology will develop out of the need to properly diagnose blindness (or something).

I think that, in the future, anything will definitely be possible. But we're are talking about the distant, distant future my friend. If we're lucky, they'll have at least a prototype of what you're talking about when we are at the end of our lives, if we are lucky, that is. You have to remember, we know just as less about the brain as we do the Universe, so making a machine that acts on our brain is not likely to be made anytime soon; we'll definitely have to discover/unlock all the secrets of the brain first before we even began thinking about devices like this. I mean we're talking about nano technology here. Even still, after it were to be produced, there would probably be a 10 to 15 year delay in production b/c scientists would be studying the effects (long term and short term) that it would have on the brain.

But yeah, I like the way you think. Ive always thought about how awesome a device like this would be, but I know that the reality of it being manufactured is far from today.:P

EDIT: So until then, we'll just have to use nature's technology a.k.a. the Old Noodle.:)

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Originally Posted by gigaschatten

There will be no recording technology like a brain scanner that can record and replay dreams. That is because technology is made of physical matter within the physical world. Dreams are no part of that world. The brain may reflect some aspects of dreaming, but that is merely a feedback, not the source.

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But surely,
A brain is physical matter in the physical world.
Everything we are is physical matter in the physical world.
A thought, is a kind of waveform in physical matter (to put it in a very simple analogy).

Its a mistake to think that just because something isn't a solid physical item you can hold in your hand, that it isn't of the physical world.
The internet or software, for example, exists, but it is not something you can physically hold. To say it is non-physical is incorrect.

However, to record and replay dreams, I think would be very tricky.
Although, perhaps that would depend on the mode of playback as to the level of difficulty.
A dream, a thought, is data, is information. The information exists as a pattern, or waveform (which when it comes down to the basics is just an arrangement of physical matter), it wouldn't be particually hard to record the data, but the intepretation of the data is the problem. If however you could simply play the data back on the original hardware (your brain) you could record dreams, but perhaps never share them.
The main obstacle is that the data in a brain, is in a closed system, its not designed to be shared. It is interpreted and stored by its own set of rules. Rules that may not be universal to each brain.

Very interesting concept though.
I personally hope i don't live to see the day. Mental privacy is something that I do not wish to give up, regardless of the benifits it may provide.
Sure it would allow new realms of knowing others, it would probably destroy lonliness forever. But it would probably come at the cost of the human race eventually becoming one giant hive mind.
If minds can be decoded and information shared, then it is only a matter of time before an "internet of minds" is created, and at that point the indivdual ceases to exist.

On a more mundane perspective. Thought crimes would probably come into existence. And as lovelly as we all think we are, we all know that there are some dark and twisted thougths that pass through even the most sane and caring minds.

I hope it stays sci-fi for my lifespan.




EDIT: having thought about the idea more. I think you'd need the following:
Very high resolution brain scanning.
Very high powered computers able to run neural network modeling to the same quality as a human mind.

Once both were available, you'd be able to create a duplicate copy of your brain, allowing for scientists to learn a great deal more about how the mind functions. This would open up research in all areas of the mind. Dream reproduction would be probably low on the list of prioritys. Of course, it would be the birth of Artificial Intelligence to the level of human intelligence too if such devices existed.

It doesn't seem likely. The newspaper or whatever article posted in the link by walms talks about actual sight: they seem to have monitored the workings between the eyes and brain. In dreams, you don't actually see, so I would assume that the images come from your mind rather than eyes. It wouldn't even make any sense for the images to come from your eyes because they are just seeings closed eyelids (or your room if you're an unfortunate open-eyed sleeper!)

Oh but it refers to the first steps, meaning that dream recording isn't that impossible anymore.

since our brain/thoughts run on electricity, then it murt be possible to convert the pulses to binary, therefore a computor would understand the thoughts, and it would just take a program to show an image on the screen, of course, a still image would be the first step, but what i dont know is how they would get the information from our brain to the computor, we cant just plug in to it. unless it could pick up the brain waves, now thats a possibility

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Originally Posted by slash112

since our brain/thoughts run on electricity, then it murt be possible to convert the pulses to binary, therefore a computor would understand the thoughts, and it would just take a program to show an image on the screen, of course, a still image would be the first step, but what i dont know is how they would get the information from our brain to the computor, we cant just plug in to it. unless it could pick up the brain waves, now thats a possibility

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Looking for the mind inside the brain would be like looking for a voice in the radio.

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Originally Posted by Elkfazer

do you think that any technology of the future might be able to create a device that would be able to record your dreams in full clarity just as you perceive them in your dream state?

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by gigaschatten

Looking for the mind inside the brain would be like looking for a voice in the radio.

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Not neccessarily, if you find the source of the voice then you'll find the radio presenter :D

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Originally Posted by Elkfazer

Not neccessarily, if you find the source of the voice then you'll find the radio presenter :D

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Yeah, but not in the radio.

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Originally Posted by gigaschatten

Yeah, but not in the radio.

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Its a poetic analogy but not founded on anything.

The mind is the result of the environment it has interacted with since its birth.
The brain the canvas the painting of mind is being worked out upon.

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Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

The mind is the result of the environment it has interacted with since its birth. The brain the canvas the painting of mind is being worked out upon.

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Yes, I understood your opinion the first time you told it. There is no need to repeat it for me. I disagree.

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Originally Posted by gigaschatten

Yes, I understood your opinion the first time you told it. There is no need to repeat it for me. I disagree.

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No offense, but I get the impression that you're just in denial. If there's one thing that history and time has told us, its that any and everything is possible. You have to think outside the box for a change and realize that the future holds many, many new possibilities that we cant even begin to conceive.

Look at where we were technology wise 10 years ago. Look at where we were 25 years ago... 50 years ago... 100 years ago... 200 years ago... 500 years ago... 1000 years ago... 2000 years ago...

Now do this towards the future and try imagine where we'll stand that many years in the future. Do you get the point?

It's not time that makes technology and the "information age" may be over sooner than one might think. Who knows what was already lost.

I'm not denying the possibility, I'm just speaking my opinion. I guess you and me, we won't find out in our lifetime whose opinion was more correct.

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Originally Posted by gigaschatten

It's not time that makes technology and the "information age" may be over sooner than one might think. Who knows what was already lost.

I'm not denying the possibility, I'm just speaking my opinion. I guess you and me, we won't find out in our lifetime whose opinion was more correct.

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So are you coming from a spiritual perspective?
You believe in the soul?
Or are you considering consciousness to me more like a wave that the mind picks up?

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Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

So are you coming from a spiritual perspective?
You believe in the soul?
Or are you considering consciousness to me more like a wave that the mind picks up?

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I don't think that makes much of a difference, it's just different words.

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Originally Posted by gigaschatten

I don't think that makes much of a difference, it's just different words.

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Not really, that's not how i meant it anyway.

You could hold the concept of the Christian idea of soul, as an individual entity created by god but veyr much seperate.

Or it could be something more like the Hindu idea where each soul actually is an aspect of god itself, just expressed in a different way (which fits the radio analogy)

Of course then there are all the questions like, if there is a soul, what is it made of, how does it work?
Why do we need brains at all (epecially if we can astral travel without one)

By the way, i'm not being confrontational, I have a very open mind about all these things, so i like to push people to explain themselves fully, because i'd like to be convinced.

I argue not to destroy someone elses beliefs, I do it in the same way I thouroughly check something before I buy it. I want to make sure it's solid and isn't going to break under scrutiny before i "buy" it.

Frankly, I have no idea who or what created consciousness/spirit/soul - if it was created at all. The concept of a consciousness/spirit/soul that exists independently from the body but can use a body/bodies as a vehicle by using its control center(s), which seems to be the brain, is simply a lot more reasonable than those imagination theories.

I've been to several realities - actually I just returned an hour ago from a short journey - and experienced things I could never have visualized, even if I had all the time in the world. Most people can't imagine peeling a peanut clearly if their grandmother's life depends on it. But even if, imagination may be nothing but a reflection of other realities we are able to access.

What is matter? Why does it have weight? Why does it even seem firm to us? Why does light not shine through it? Ask a physicist to answer that. Our material world is an illusion. Can the consciousness/spirit/soul be an illusion too?

Fabulous idea! I do understand what gigaschatten is saying about physical verses non-physical, but then.... who would ever have believed the Internet was possible?? ;)

I remember people laughing when I said I wished I could play games on my cell phone.... and then.... like magic.... the technology eventually appeared. I wouldn't be surprised if Elkfazer's idea of recording dreams becomes a reality in ... well, possibly not that long from now. ;)

xxx

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Originally Posted by gigaschatten

Frankly, I have no idea who or what created consciousness/spirit/soul - if it was created at all. The concept of a consciousness/spirit/soul that exists independently from the body but can use a body/bodies as a vehicle by using its control center(s), which seems to be the brain, is simply a lot more reasonable than those imagination theories.

I've been to several realities - actually I just returned an hour ago from a short journey - and experienced things I could never have visualized, even if I had all the time in the world. Most people can't imagine peeling a peanut clearly if their grandmother's life depends on it. But even if, imagination may be nothing but a reflection of other realities we are able to access.

What is matter? Why does it have weight? Why does it even seem firm to us? Why does light not shine through it? Ask a physicist to answer that. Our material world is an illusion. Can the consciousness/spirit/soul be an illusion too?

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There are a few problems I have with that way of looking at things.
(don't take this as a personal attack, it's just the reasons I find it hard to agree)

If we are a spiritual being, why have bodies at all?
Also are humans the only animals with spirits/souls?
If not, at which point down the line does the soul spirit stop? the mouse? the snail? the ameoba?
Did the sould evolve alongside the body?
Also if souls are independent of body/mind... then shouldnt it be possible for a human soul to enter an animals body and demonstrate its intelligence that way?

I agree that what is "physical" is a very odd concept. I dont quite see how that lends itself to the idea that a soul/consciousness is a seperate entity though. Our material world isnt really an illusion, just the idea of it being solid is just our way of perciving it based on the scale that we are in relation to atoms. To say it is an illusion begs the question "In comparison to what?"


I find myself more comfortable with the buddhist concept of self and soul... that being that there isn't one and it's just an illusion.

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Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

There are a few problems I have with that way of looking at things.
(don't take this as a personal attack, it's just the reasons I find it hard to agree)

If we are a spiritual being, why have bodies at all?

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What body? You're thinking in terms of firm matter. There is none, it's an illusion.

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Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Also are humans the only animals with spirits/souls?

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I don't know, but I don't think so.

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Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

If not, at which point down the line does the soul spirit stop? the mouse? the snail? the ameoba?

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I don't know, but I guess it never stops. Is a quantum particle conscious?

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Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Did the sould evolve alongside the body?

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What body? Maybe the body is an expression of consciousness.

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Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Also if souls are independent of body/mind... then shouldnt it be possible for a human soul to enter an animals body and demonstrate its intelligence that way?

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Define better. Maybe it does. Maybe also in plants or any other matter/energy structure. I don't know.

You didn't expect me to have any objective answers, did you?

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Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

I agree that what is "physical" is a very odd concept. I dont quite see how that lends itself to the idea that a soul/consciousness is a seperate entity though. Our material world isnt really an illusion, just the idea of it being solid is just our way of perciving it based on the scale that we are in relation to atoms. To say it is an illusion begs the question "In comparison to what?"

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In comparison to something that is as it seems. If that exists is negligible for comparison.

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Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

I find myself more comfortable with the buddhist concept of self and soul... that being that there isn't one and it's just an illusion.

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I don't like the word "soul". It's been used and abused too much by christianity.

You're misunderstanding that aspect of buddhism though. It's the ego that is an illusion, not the one consciousness we are all part of - according to buddhism. It is the ego that separates you.

I think recording the audio from the dreams would be a first and easier step. Ignoring L/R audio, recording audio would be a linear line of data. Recording visual would be a 2D line of data, which is lot more memory.

spaceexplorer:

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There are a few problems I have with that way of looking at things.
(don't take this as a personal attack, it's just the reasons I find it hard to agree)

If we are a spiritual being, why have bodies at all?
Also are humans the only animals with spirits/souls?
If not, at which point down the line does the soul spirit stop? the mouse? the snail? the ameoba?
Did the sould evolve alongside the body?
Also if souls are independent of body/mind... then shouldnt it be possible for a human soul to enter an animals body and demonstrate its intelligence that way?

I agree that what is "physical" is a very odd concept. I dont quite see how that lends itself to the idea that a soul/consciousness is a seperate entity though. Our material world isnt really an illusion, just the idea of it being solid is just our way of perciving it based on the scale that we are in relation to atoms. To say it is an illusion begs the question "In comparison to what?"


I find myself more comfortable with the buddhist concept of self and soul... that being that there isn't one and it's just an illusion.

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Hi Spaceexplorer :)

Interesting post. What makes the most sense to me is this:

Think about why some people go camping... for the experience of "roughing it" - doing without modern conveniences. Imagine the Ultimate Virtual Reality Game - where, not only do you get to go camping and experience what it's like to have the challenge of having to hunt and fish for food, make a fire from scratch etc.... but imagine that there is an option to take some sort of medication that temporarily erases your memory of who you really are, and where you really come from - so that, while you're in that game, you believe that's all there is. You really believe that you are living that reality - you can't even remember that modern conveniences exist, never mind that you usually have access to them.

So, you play the game for real - because it feels real, and you've forgotten that it's not. And so you get the full, authentic experience, until you log out. ;)

The Ultimate Virtual Reality Game. :)

xxx

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Originally Posted by gigaschatten

You're misunderstanding that aspect of buddhism though. It's the ego that is an illusion, not the one consciousness we are all part of - according to buddhism. It is the ego that separates you.

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Depends on the school of buddhism, im more with the original Theravadin way of looking at things. I think many of the other schools have taken on a good deal of Hinduism which has the concept of brahman and atman,which sounds more like what you are refering to.

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Originally Posted by illusions

spaceexplorer:

Hi Spaceexplorer :)

Interesting post. What makes the most sense to me is this:

Think about why some people go camping... for the experience of "roughing it" - doing without modern conveniences. Imagine the Ultimate Virtual Reality Game - where, not only do you get to go camping and experience what it's like to have the challenge of having to hunt and fish for food, make a fire from scratch etc.... but imagine that there is an option to take some sort of medication that temporarily erases your memory of who you really are, and where you really come from - so that, while you're in that game, you believe that's all there is. You really believe that you are living that reality - you can't even remember that modern conveniences exist, never mind that you usually have access to them.

So, you play the game for real - because it feels real, and you've forgotten that it's not. And so you get the full, authentic experience, until you log out. ;)

The Ultimate Virtual Reality Game. :)

xxx

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Yes I believe something similar. It's not really provable or not, so it just remains a nice thought to play with in those moments when you can think about these things.
God being bored with being god and all powerful, so creates a labyrinth of illusion out of himself, splintering himself into infitinte variations. All of which believe themselves to be seperate and mortal. All slowly moving to discovering the truth of what they truely are... so that one day, they will appreciate the joy of the truth.
In fact i've always thought that dreams are a microcosm of this whole principle.


I dont really like to hold any set belief though. I really rather just observe the universe around me and update my views as i grow. One of the reasons I play devils advocate alot, making someone prove thier belief, shows the flaws in it, and gives me more information to either reject or accept it as part of my world view

by the way, wherein the UK are you based? im down in the southwest.

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God being bored with being god and all powerful, so creates a labyrinth of illusion out of himself, splintering himself into infitinte variations. All of which believe themselves to be seperate and mortal.

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YES! Really well put! That's what I was thinking, but couldn't put it into words, and you've explained it exactly! The only difference is I don't think of God as a "him" but more of an "it" ;)

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by the way, wherein the UK are you based? im down in the southwest.

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Me too! I'm in Gloucester. :)

xxx

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It's not really provable or not

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Yes, I also don't claim to know the truth for sure - and I don't believe we really can know the truth about the "reality" we're in, until we get out of it and get to see it from the outside ;) In the meantime, I believe that whatever a person believes is true - for them. So I like to choose beliefs that make sense to me and that I find work for me. :boogie:

xxx

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Originally Posted by Venomblood

Recording visual would be a 2D line of data, which is lot more memory.

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You dream in 2D?

2D or not 2D? That is the question! Sorry, couldn't resist :cheeky:

Who knows, some people are said to dream in luminance (black and white) only.