Thread: The Fact that everything just exists.

This is my first post, and i was just wondering, does it bother anyone else how everything just exists and there is no explanation for it at all.

"Bother"....


MMMMMMMMMMno not anymore. I look at it as mystery. Life is a mystery and that makes existence exciting, not bothersome. I think it's only bothersome if you think/believe that there is no meaning or purpose to existence.



... Oh, and welcome to the forum

Thats a good point, and thanks for having me

I thought starting this thread was a good idea until i was reading Lowercase Society's post under the "noobs" thread, and then when i thought about it. I realized it was kind of a stupid post.

I don't think your post was stupid or bothersome at all... that's why I replied to it. There are some threads that are annoying -like the ones where it's OBVIOUS that they have not done any reading/research on lucid dreaming. There have been many posts NOT begun by noobies which are equally annoying as well, though. There is a lot of stuff to sift through...

There isn't a whole lot that hasn't been discussed or at least touched upon, but I thought this question is interesting nonetheless. Elaboration?
:yumdumdoodledum:

Just a while ago I was thinking about how life may have started. Did God start life or was it something else. Did all life evolve for a single cell and now here we are? More importantly, where did all the material come from. All the elements that make up everything around us. So little, in my opinion, is known about our existence. Everyone I see just runs around thinking about work and other stuff. While I sit and stair at my hands Just stop and look around some time. Try to see things for the first time. Look at your hands and see more than just ten fingers. See the life that is in you, then look up and see the life around you! Lay back and see the sky as it moves by with the wind. Think about how the wind works. How the leaves blow with it and how the land shaped by it. The problem with our society is that eveyone is looking but no one is seeing

I must say... with a resounding no existance does not bother me... after my experiance the other day at the japanese garden... I came to realise that I myself Just exists... it was perfect though.. everything... I wasnt worrying about it, I just was and I was a part of existance of everything, just like all of you are... and even those people that dont htink about it, all of them, they are a part of existance as well...

Ok... so the scientific way all this matter came about,

BOOOM (insert scientific creation myth)

Stars formed through the forces of gravity and thermodynamics... as a sun ages it begins to fuse more and more heavy elements... because well it starts out with the light stuff hydrogen and fuses it.. hey that makes a hevaier element... and it keeps goin and going and going. untill it does not have enough intertia to keep fusing that material, the HUGE stars can actually fuse LEAD!!!! thats insane! so all the different stars in the universe being different sizes and suff fused material up to a certain point so there you get all your different sized elements.

We are star dust...

As for the religious thoughts, the one I think I know most of is that God used water to create everything, I duno where the water came from and such, perhaps somone else can explain and inform? God is god and can do whatever it plases but when God separated the universe from itself it also gave itslef something to work with... see the uniiverse is still a part of god, I mean EVERYTHING is god but we are separate from god.. crap I am confusing myself.... im tired....somone else care to splain? or say seri shut up you duno what your talking about?

isnt much easier to accept that there is a god and put some faith into that?

what was there before the big boom? what about before that? and before that? what made that? and that?

ahhhh so confusing

There can't have been anything before because "before" doesn't exist, or never existed. What I mean is time didn't exist before so you can't really talk about before.

Oh, and seri, shut up you duno what your talking about. (Just kidding)

some people find it harder to accept existance or faith for that matter, some people are just more open minded than others, or just generally bow to the power of suggestion.

_____
oh and welcome!

I am bottled, fizzy water and you are shaking me up.
You are the fingernail running down the chalkboard I thought i left in third grade.[/b]

When it comes to faith i cound that something hard to follow, sure i believe that there must be some form of a higher being, but when it comes to the bible or religous teachings, to me it just seems that those are more of a guide to live your life by, not things that actually happened.

And the big bang is weird because "they" say it has happened before and that eventually the universe will stop expanding collapse and everything will happen all over again.

Side note - I was dreaming lastnight and I've been doing all these checks when im awake to see if Im dreaming...and anyways in my dream (I must be an idiot) I was on the internet reading something and it would make sense then i would go back and it wouldn't make sense, and clocks were screwed up. It's like my dream was about not being able to become lucid.

The universe is not constantly expanding. And the big bang? I mean come on people. Is the earth flat too? Maybe just maybe with that thinking. It is like time. It does not flow in one direction. It exists as one time or one place. I suppose it is impossible for us to comprehend that time can be infinitely forward and back. As space only goes as far as we can see. So is one hour from now really a different time? Time is just how we measure our existance.

It is such questions nobody can answer, I myself also believe in God is EVERYTHING god is "the cosmos"
But nobody can answe questions like:

Where did "god" come from?
When was he created then?
Or did he always exist?

Such questions are just gonna break your head, it is best to accept that it is here now. Yes it is interesting to know how it got here, but at the same time it doesnt really matter. Mabey we are not supposed to know.

But if I would have to give an answer on how god or the cosmos was created?

Well i said sometimes before, we are all life force. Everything is life force created/send out by the cosmos. Fire contains life force,water does, air does, plants do. All small amounts of life force. A soul is simply a big amount of life force concentrated together. We where all once a little sparkle of life force that grew by going trough stages until it oculd manifest itself as a true soul.

I think the cosmos is one HUGE life force power house. Mabey it was once a small amount of life force that drawed tiny bits of force towards it making it grow, and grow and grow until it reached a stage where it could use that enormous amount of life force to create the planet and everything on it and keep it alife. Where did the cosmos get all that power?? Mabey it got it from other planets and the sun, mabey once they were more alive aswell, mabey it drew power from them. The earth isnt very old compaired to other planets. Might also explain why other planets are such a mess compaired to the earth?? Because all the life force is cocentrated over here?

Im not sure, but it does make a little sense i gues..

This is what I think:

God was everything, but to be something you'll have to compare yourself with something (you can't be big if nobody is small). Therefor, he created the universe and the relative world to compare him self with someone. Therefor god is and so on..

Anyone believe something similar?

I've started to think everything in life is right, even the most evil parts, because without evil there would be no good in comparison....I dont have it in my heart to be evil, but I dont condem those that are, no matter how much it hurts me.

Originally posted by urFAVcookie
isnt much easier to accept that there is a god and put some faith into that?

To me, it seems much easier (convenient?) to put faith in science rather than in "faith," (religious) but that's also a loaded premise because to "believe" in science takes a sort of faith as well. Science is not really knowledge -it's only temporary constructs and theory. It is constantly in a state of change, so it cannot address the eternal...

Crucible-- "The universe is not constantly expanding."

Are you kidding?!? Its been proven that space is expanding. Its like cookie dough with two chips on it. When you bake the cookie, the dough between the chips expands, not the chips, and that has be proven true with objects in space. Like the distance between two galaxies or stars, the space between expands over time and the rate of expansion has actually been calculated out. I forget what it was but if you like, I can get the number for you.

As president of our Astronomy Club, I just gave a presentation on this.

New theories suggest the universe to be in the shape of a soccer ball.. not kidding either...

They dont know, and it is possible that the galaxies and objects that we can observe are moving in relative to themselves. and not the universe itself, so they could be moving away from one another, and if the universe is not an infinite space they could be very well falling off the edge of the universe =) would explain why there dosent seem to be enough matter in the universe, and we wont get into dark matter and string theory kuz that gives me a brain itch.

Ok time... *sigh* this is gona hurt....

From my experience all the places I have gone and seen they all have set time lines, I experience things in a progression just like I do here.

However, I have experienced extended amounts of time, that is not relative to this timeline, meaning I have spent a long ass time somewhere else and only a few hours passed here, I dont care if you think my brain tricked me into thinking time passed or whatever, if that were so then it would be the same situation here, everything you have experienced is only a trick of your head, just memories.

Ugh, and granted thats all we are, is a collection of memory and experience. But we change and grow, if it all happened already I would not be the dynamic spirit and being that I am. I would be a static unchanging thing. But this makes me wonder about my eternal soul, it is forever without beginning without end... thats what eternal means dosent it? and how come I am experiencing different times when I dream? where I think I am ending up somewhere else not in this universe.

What I still dont understand is the whole time is a trick of our perception, that it flows both ways and that everything that has happened and will happen is just like one big blob that we experience going in one linear path, because out limited take on it. how could it go backwards too?

And if it is all just one thing and that the future has already happened, then whats the point, and if this was created by "God" why would it have created it? what would the point be?

Without time there is no growth, theorize all you like, the fact remains that for all of us, even me, with my twisted screwed up perception of time, progresses in a linear path. With out this path there is no growth, you cant learn you can be born you cant even die and most importantly our spirits cannot grow, they cannot learn they would be static.

The only take on time that has made sense to me is this.

Time is an illusion, time is numbers something we created, there is a path though and it is linear, the fact none of you are growing younger and entropy are pretty good signs that we are heading in one driectionwhether it be fowards backwards or even sideways... who knows, what we do know is there IS a path.

Now IF you beleive that the universe was created... insert any creation myth you like even the scientific one then it will have an end. And in that case there is time and it would progress as anything that has a beginning and an end needs to have a period of time in between those two points....

IF you beleive the universe has always existed, then there will be no end to it, either, it is infinite, and as such is incomprehensible to us other than the word infinite. If this were true time WOULD be an illusion because in order for something to have always existed then there would be no way to start a linear path of time, time would be that big mess of total experience, we would be static and have already died and lived I was born tomorrow etc ... (crap headach setting in)

What if...

This universe was created, and therefor has time. and progresses in a linear path that we all perceive...
But... this universe, is not all there is. It is not infinite, meaning it has an end along with limits...
Our spirits... they are not connected to that finitality (is that a word?) of this universe... they are eternal. So they would have to be part of something else too wouldent they, and are only visiting this universe... and as such have to follow the rules of it, meaning they perceive time, and are able to grow and learn..

But there is an outside, and other universes, other places each having being created and allowing spirits to experience.

But there is something that has always existed, that is apart from all these instances of time, i will call it God, what if we are a part of that infinite being, but have been separated from it so that we could experience time, to grow and learn, so that infinite being, in turn can also experience growth...crap.. I duno if I am making sense anymore... .*sigh* I am gona take a nap I just fried half my brain coming up with this. This was a rant of me trying to understand stuff I mean not to infring on what any of you think this is just how I sort stuff out, I need more input though, so any of you that think you understand time even a little or have any pointers to good resources of understanding time please bring them up.

oh yeah.

Also when we go to sleep, and or loose consiousness coma, concussion whatever, our experience turn OFF our spirit becomes detached from this universe and so our perception of this universe turns OFF we stop experienceing things, including time...

Go to sleep wake up but with no indications of what time it is, you hvae no clue what time it is...there is no way to dicern it..

Just another thing that makes me think we are just visitors in this place.

Also why we really are eternal beings that would not be experiencing time were it not for well... experience =)

Serinath, what would you do if a whole bunch of people disappered from the face of the earth tommor.


Awnser me this, or awnser me that, either way its all the same.

and why the dream world seems more real than this one, especially when you become aware of it.

You are getting a direct feed... its not being interpreted through the physical senses of the body, it is direct experience via the spirit, so of course its gona be a higher resolution. I still dont understand myself, working on it, time there being more variable than set, i think in those experiments where they compared time from here to there, i beleive that it was close because we get used to time and we can give a guess at its basic length.. .one onethousand two one thousand... if you focus on it, sure time works.

The really lucid dreams i have seem to be different than the ones where I go visiting so to speak, the ones where I go visiting are only semi lucid, which would explain why I only have limited controll and have to follow rules that are set forth in that place...

I think you might be right about time being one thing... but not in this universe... it makes sense in the dream world though...

Because we are experiencing things as our spirit naturally does, in its own eternal way, perhaps it is us just experiencing glimmers of what we have been or seen? just going over all the experiences we have collected? would explain the massive amounts of things we can see and feel in dream compared to such a short time here.

An instant of infinity is still infinity.

But then we wake up... and are returned to the finite.
And we are starting to remember those instants?

We need time to go through all this stuff...need it to think about it, hehe as you can see by my thought process it takes a while =)
It would allow us as spirits to grow though, allow us to start compiling all those experiences.... Daunting may they be we start to sort through them?
giving us new things to think about more to ...

crap i am getting confused. Im gona shut up and think on this a while.

(mutters I need to learn how to filter what goes from my mind to my fingers when i type... )

Originally posted by Shawndow
Serinath, what would you do if a whole bunch of people disappered from the face of the earth tommor.


Awnser me this, or awnser me that, either way its all the same.

Awnser me DAMN IT. why you avoiding my question huh, your dancing around like a mad person. AWNSER ME DAMIT

what i think it is

YOU CAN"T HANDEL THE TRUTH
(sorry had to say that)

The only "faith" required for science is the assumption that the universe functions in a consistent, testable manner. I don't really think in terms of there being some sort of a purpose of existence, as if the universe were designed for some specific function. No need to try and reduce reality to simplified human-centric terms.

im not really talkin science or sense now..
And I am trying to put it into human terms because thats what I am at the moment, and in order for me to understand these things it has to be interms that I can understand.
I know there is a point, I am not trying to discern whether or not there is one.. I am trying to determine the nature of existance and time in relation to the dream world and our eternal spirits.

If a whole lot of people dissapeared from the face of the earth tomorrow?

I would wonder what the hell happened to them. It wouldent change the way I think...
Come on your talking to mr, impossible is that which has yet to be imagined.

Now I ask you a question...

What if I were one of those that dissapeared...

Or even better... what if you were one of them.

LOL, doesn't bother me.

The truth of lucidity and reality: everything exists, nothing exists.

There is an equal and opposite energy that exists everywhere throughout the universe, this INCLUDES our perception of reality.

Reality and fate happen in strings of multiverses that all happen at the same time, but because we are separated by space, the illusion of time is created because reality is actually bending in those neato ripples of time/space that Eistein always talked about.

Not only does this perception of reality exist
so do all the ones we imagine
and then so do there complete opposites
and then every possible variable in between
and then nothing the VOID

and guess what you choose your own fate the multiverse tilts just for you

don't let it BOTHER you, just know it and use it to your advantage.
there is no anxiety to have about the path you have not yet chosen.
we never do ANYTHING wrong, we just THINK we do.

think that everything is fine, don't think about it, empty your mind of anxiety and you will gain a lucid reality, one that you yourself are able to change by changing nothing at all

taoism is amazing

If you dispeered along with millions of other ppl from the face of the earth. I would pray and pray every day for seven years. I would not except any mark of the beast.

Now if i disappered, i don't know what i would do. Where would i go. HUH


Awnser me DAMIT,



Were all part of you imagination Serinth