cant seem to get lucid

well its been about a week now. i still do reality test through out the day to get into the habbit of doing it. but the habbit still has not yet passed over into the dream world. its like 4am right now and i have had many dreams already tonight and not a single one of them was good or enjoyable .. the last one i had was one where i was in a drunken state that i didnt want to be in .. it felt like my equalibrium was way off and i couldnt maintain any sort of balance. i just kept falling over and eventually lost complete control of my legs.. it was like walking on jello legs.. i was getting very frustrated in my dream because everyone couldnt understand why i was unable to walk properly.. i had to rely on walls and other objects to get around., the dream had so many dream signs in it and im just wondering why i am unable to understand that while dreaming. even family members that have past away were in the dream and i seemed to know in the dream that they were already dead but still, the thought of being in a dream never seemed to cross my mind like always.. i continouly try to convince myself before falling asleep that i am going to be lucid and thinking about lucid dreaming is prob what i think about for most of the day including coming here ever couple hours to see if anything has been posted or to see if i have any personal messages. But so far it has had no effect :cry:

I think I know why you reality checks aren't working. They haven't been working for me anymore but they use to. I'm doing it half-ass now kind of. What I'm doing is trying to stick my finger through my hand. What I should do is the watch thing. With the watch thing you really can't do it half ass because it will change because you will be excepting it to in a dream. I should get my watch now come to think of it...

and I mean itWow, what a direct sign your dream has shown you about your conscious state of mind.

You are stuck, you are not transcending one of the jhonnas properly. The wobbly feeling you are getting is called the 'second plateu' 4 dex trippers. For Buddhists I believe it is the 2nd Jhonna, but I may be incorrect. The state is one that is transitional: the mind is shutting down, but only partially, your animal brain is working fine but it has lost connection with your cognescent mind, so your motor skills go out the window. The discomforst you feel in everyday life is due to this same problem, your are not relaxing enough, slow down, nothing is bad about this state, it only needs to be transcended for it is integral to much more enlightened and lucid states of mind.

[I say this because I have experienced the state many times, sober, sleeping, and tripping, and understand how to move through it, move with it. Deep 8hr meditations.]

Quit trying to understand, it is understood, you know already, you are just confused by the bombardment of sensation.

To understand you are dreaming, think about nothing when you go to sleep, and I mean it NOTHING. Do not let your mind drift, even to concentrating on your lucid goal. Trust your will, you will dream and remember if you believe in yourself and stop trying so hard. Nothingness. A clear mind for clear dreams.

Once you start to have peaceful, non-stressful dreams, you will find that lucidity is second hand, that it was available to you all the time, but that your mind and its loops of paranoia (what if i don't dream, what if its bad, what if whatever) were all that hindered you.

Meditate. free your mind, your dreams will follow.

excuse me? animal brain? i think not buddy..

Ah Paperdoll.... You think he is incorrect in talking about our animal brain? Well... just let me go off here real fast:

First off, evolution has caused us to have multiple pieces in our brain that have designated functions. Instead of our whole brain just evolving and changing, basically it just built on top of the old. For instance, our limbic system is that of reptilian nature, an old system in our bodies that needed little change. That is one of our so called "animal brains". There is also some other lower fucntioning parts of the brain, but I can't remember them all off the top of my head. I wrote an article about a while ago, having to do with the dual nature of man and how this is nearly inherent in our psychology and the physical nature of our minds. If you don't believe me I'll get the facts and post 'em later.

i didn't come from a lizard, i didn't come from a bird, i didn't come from a fish, and i SURE AS HELL didn't come from a friggin ass-picking MONKEY.

your a fool paperdoll...

What makes you think you are different from all of gods other creations? The fact that you do not understand them and they cannot speak as we do?

Sure some animals are dumber than others... just like some people..

Least they dont go about annialating their own kind because of some invisible lines on a map

You look into the eyes of Dolphin or an orangutan and you tell me that they are not looking back at you, wondering the same thing,

"who are you?"

Well perhaps, its more like this
The human saying "hahah look at the stupid beast without a soul"
And the dolphin or orangutan thinking..."who are you?"

Douglas Adams put it best


Humans have always thought that they were the most intelligent creatures on the planet, because they invented such things as the wheel, NYC and war, while other animals, say dolphins for instance, just mucked about in the oceans eating playing and having a good time....

Conversely, the dolphins though they were the most intelligent creatures on the planet for the same exact reasons. :D

Hehe I know some cetaceans that are smarter and more understanding than some people...

And they arent nearly as arrogant.

did i say animals are stupid? no. did i even IMPLY that they're stupid? no.

i said i DID NOT COME FROM ONE.

Then what do you beleive you came from?

i believe God created man.


*duh* :roll:

Sorry I get worked up over that, sounded like you were separating us from them, alot of people also beleive we are the only ones with souls...Your entitled to your beleifs, but that just dosent fly with me. Life is life, and needs a soul at the helm.

Theres only like a 2%difference between our genetic make up and slugs

:D

Ewwwwww

I believe God, or the infinite, or whatever, created a system that we are the products of. I mean, why the hell would God make it obvious that he created us only a few thousand years ago? If he wanted to be obvious, he could just show up anytime and be like, "Word peeps!", but he doesn't, does he? I just don't understand how people can truly believe the Earth is only a few thousand years old when there is a ton of evidence that is otherwise. God did create man, in a very brilliant, artistic, and wonderfully roundabout way.

I think it's funny how soooo many people rely on and base assumptions on a THEORETICAL CONSTRUCT that is faulty and outdated (evolutionism). Even in spite of new scientific data pointing to the absurdity of evolutionistic "science," (dating techniques, people still seem stuck in the rut of evolutionism. It takes more faith for me to believe in the data purported by evolutionist "scientists" than it does to believe that the world is only a few thousand years old...


http://www.icr.org/

(...not sure how to do the hyperlink thing - :oops: )

sorry about that. sent before completing it...


...(dating techniques, hole-ly "evidence," many disregarded scientific theories conflicting with evolutionist data, etc.)
I guess the hyperlink happens automatically... :? :oops:

carbon dating works, its just that it is hard to obtain a sample that is not contaminated by younger or older microorganisms.

Whatabout the records of civilizations dating back before the "creation" of earth? I dont mean carbon dated records, I mean records those civilizations put down, star maps and such showing the night sky with incredible detail... One can calculate exact dates using star charts.

I saw the whole footprint thing a human footprint next to a dinosaurs... how come they werent spoken about untill the fossils were found, I am sure that anyone who seen a dinosaur after they cleaned the crap out of their pants would have written it down. also sedimentary stone can be covered and uncovered, such is the nature of rivers, they can also become soft enough again to take a footprint then harden, granted thats a one in a million chance, but there are a lot more rivers around than that.

Other than the carbon dating holes, do you have any more info you can provide?, I am searching, Im not saying evolution is the way it happend nor am I sayign the world was created in a couple days only a few thousand years ago...
I dont know enough to say otherwise but so far, God starting up life on earth and letting it grow seems more feasable to me as lifes purpose is to grow and is our spiritual purpose, rather than God just plunking us down and letting us go on our merry way, and dont give me the We were created in gods image thing either... Gods infinite and does not have a physical form we no more resemble god than a seacucumber resembles us... actually a seacucumber resembles us more than we resemble god

I can say
"I am Evan son of Steven" This is true, but it is not the whole representation of what and who I am , it is mereely a mnemonic (sp) device used to describe me
Just like our bodies are merely a representation of somethinig that is much greater.

The new field of genetics is starting to shed more light on evolution, we used to describe animals by their outward appearance and characteristics, but now we are finding that geneticly we have made some mistakes but for the most part what was said holds true, sure its got holes, its a theory as is most science, I pity those that take science for fact, just as those who take ancient texts handed down, translated, translated again, handed down by word of mouth, translated again too litrally but at least with science it is being studied and worked on to make it more whole and not jsut taken as the way it is...

Also of course the fossile record has holes in it, not every creature is going to get fossilized now is it? the conditions have to be jsut right, but like I said with genetics they are finding the paths of growth that life has been taking, its amazing stuff, life realy is an inicredible thing

(offtopic) you know they have sucessfuly created a DNA computer? in a damned Vial! HAH never seen that in science fiction have you?.. well I havent any of you?

Also one more thing that irks me about creation theory is why is your religions theory more accurate than some one elses? This goes for anyone of any faith, there are cultures much older that beleive differently, then again just because they are older dosent mean they are the ones that are right either... But which one is right?

I hope i dont offend anyone :? but seriously we know too little either way

Evangel, cool link, more stuffs for me to dig into.

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Originally posted by Second Attention
I believe God, or the infinite, or whatever, created a system that we are the products of. I mean, why the hell would God make it obvious that he created us only a few thousand years ago? If he wanted to be obvious, he could just show up anytime and be like, \"Word peeps!\", but he doesn't, does he? I just don't understand how people can truly believe the Earth is only a few thousand years old when there is a ton of evidence that is otherwise. God did create man, in a very brilliant, artistic, and wonderfully roundabout way.

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read the bible. does it say He created us through evolution? no. case closed.

I dont think all of the bible is to be taken so literally Paperdoll. More of a metaphor I think, also which bible are you reading?

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh.................*droo l*

King James? NIV? i don't read as much as i should... :cry:

but seriously, how much more clearer ( :lol: ) is "and on the sixth day God created man and woman"!!!?

i mean gosh...it doesn't say "and He made monkeys that turned into people"

(you spelled mnemonic right btw Seri) :P

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

*cries* I typed a whole lot...



Invalid Session....


*cries*


ok mebby later I will write it all again


Thanks paperdoll, I was too lazy to look it up 8)I frikin r00l 8)

ewwwwwwwwww Invalid-Session! eww eww eww...

*nightmare memories*

it shouldn't do that if you're in IE

but it does from AOL i learned that... :cry:

I would say you are all right. well, except the 'not coming from animals bit,' I am proud to be a beast.

To say that evolutionists are dumb is kinda right, but evolution as a process is always happening, it's only growth and entropy reflecting eachother.

I believe that we cam from god, but to say that god is in any way like a human is too small a perspective. god is simply the everything. not only is god human, but all else, including time and evolution.

i see this process in my dreams sooo often.

an intregal part in lucidity is understanding that nothing is constant, save for it is always changing.

To suggest that god created humanity from nothing is a bit hard to take, everything in the universe comes from a chain of events infinitely long, we call that creation and god.

The Bible says nothing about creation being instantaneous.

I would suggest, however, that consciousness is the concept that Adam and Eve embody. They ate a plant that made them trip. It's really not that spectacular. But our existence and evolution through the complex series of events that created the univers is absolutly staggering and holier the holy.

The creation story of Adam and Eve does not come from the Bible BTW, it comes from many religions. It is a very very old story. Hell, now we can trace peyote usage further back then most christians place the creation (70,000 yrs.). Christians need to remember that they STOLE a good portion of their religion from early Islamic, Zorostor, various tribes, etc. not to mention Judaism (the twin of Islam), which also at various points in history contained much magic, later deemed paganism (although anyone here who says they are monotheist or polytheist is incorrect, both are the say, we all worship a million idols a day, we are all sinners).

God and evolution are the same. Humans are animals that like to get high.

I like this guy heeh.

Well I was going to write all that i did down but im lazy =/

Simplified, carbondating is flawed

Isotonic radiometrics using various other elements is more accurate, yes there have been cases where the various methods did not agree but if you take a rolex and a timex, find they dont show the same time, is it safe to assume that all watcehs are incorrect even though the majority show the same time?

Even the case that did not agree Isotonic dating of the bed of the grandcanyon using .. crap I think Ar and Sr... the methods disagreed, but both showed the rock at the bottom of the canyon to be at least 500mil years old.

ok so question, before the flood, how long was the earth in existance?

as for the whole 6 day thing
I dont think you can take the word Day litrally, think about it, What is being said is from gods perspective....an infinite beings perspective might be a bit different from our own.

sooooo anywhoo... its tough to say eaither way, sure there aer websites bashing the other one using the same data to prove their point as the other is using to disprove its a mess, the internet is a giant rumor mill AND anyone can make a website look official and scientific if you bog it down with so much jargon and mathematics that no one bothers to read through it and see the flaws inherent in it...

Dont beleive everything you read on the internet folks.

Im on the fence with this for now... I got some dreaming to do...

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Originally posted by Dictionary.com

God

A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions. *

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so are you trying to say that God didn't create the universe because your little human mind can't comprehend it?

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I would suggest, however, that consciousness is the concept that Adam and Eve embody. They ate a plant that made them trip. It's really not that spectacular. But our existence and evolution through the complex series of events that created the univers is absolutly staggering and holier the holy.[/b]

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???

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The creation story of Adam and Eve does not come from the Bible BTW[/b]

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Genesis 2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested [1] from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.


Adam and Eve
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- 5 and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth [2] and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth [3] and there was no man to work the ground, 6 but streams [4] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground- 7 the LORD God formed the man [5] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground-trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin [6] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. [7] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."
19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam [8] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [9] and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [10] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,

"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh,
she shall be called 'woman, [11] '
for she was taken out of man."

24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.



oh? there it is, strait from the bible, plain as day. i can post the rest if you'd like.

you know, at first i liked you. at first i thought you were a very intelligent person. but after that little display of total and complete idiocy, i have lost all respect for you.

I think what he was trying to say about the adam and eve thing is that many cultures have a man and a woman in much the same setting and story when it comes to creation myths. Not that other cultures have the same exact story with specifically adam and eve.
:?:

Paperdoll, doesn't it take hundreds of thousands of years for evolution. (Bugs do it faster) It takes hundreds and thousands of generations to evolve doesn't it? So you really can't see any changes because the theory of evolution hasn't even been around for very long (I think). Also, (what do I know but it could happen) we are evolving right now. Our brains are growing and in 10,000 years, maybe everyone is what we now call a genius and they will be saying that we were really quite stupid. But hey, what do I know...

First of all, I side with paperdoll.

Second, Please do NOT refer to evolution or creation as fact, or theory. neither has been observed or repeated. At best either could be called a hypothesis.

Seriananth, it was about 1600 from creation till the flood.

As regard to the age of the earth, about 6000 years old. Now, I realise this is a hard concept to grasp.

But Rtex, Do you have any proof?

I'm glad you asked.

Fact Number one, Red Blood cells and hemoglobin have been found in some unfossilized dinosaur bones, But Joel, in their unfossilized state wouldn't it be impossible for them to last more than a few thousand years? I'm glad you asked! Because that is exactly right, thus making it impossible for dinosaurs to have lived 65 million years ago.

Fact number two, The earth magnetic field is decaying so fast that scientists estimate that the maximum age of the earth is 10,000 years old.

I'm sure you've all heard of Super Novas? well, the super nova remnant keeps expanding for hundred of thousands of years after it explodes, and yet we have not been able find any very old SNR's(stage 3) and very few moderately old SNR's(stage 2) Which makes sense if they have not been around for billions of years.

The moon is slowly moving away from the earth, At a rate of about 1 1/2 inches per year (4cm). If you assume the moon's original starting point was touching the earth, it would be at its current position in roughly 1.37 billion years, this is the maximum age for the moon(not the actual),
Hardly enough time for the evolutionistic view.(btw the moon did not start touching the earth)

The oceans are collecting salt much faster than it is losing it, if the earth were Billions of years old then the ocean would have so much salt in it, it would be compareable to the dead sea.

As far as us humans evolving and getting smarter in 10,000 years, Sure, that is Micro evolution, changes WITHIN the same species. However, Macro evolution, Saying that a dog could evolve into something else that is not a dog, is impossible.

There is one problem tho, The second law of thermodynamics. No evolutionist can get around it. which basicly says, things go from order to disorder, Now if you want to disregard one of the most fundamental laws of science, and believe evolution, then by all means, go ahead. But don't say no one ever tryed to tell you that evolution is wrong.

I can't even begin to understand the fucking stupidity that surrounds religion. You know what I think? WHO FUCKING CARES! By all of this wondering and bickering and meandering in our own thoughts are we really achieving any sort of further knowledge on the subject? Especially if your all as closed minded as you seem(all is a bit of an overstatement). I mean... Why don't we sit here and try to prove each other wrong and fight about shit? Huh? We could make it like the fight over the Holy Land in Israel. Come on... it'll be fun... everyone loves fighting about religion! Because we're all right and everyone else is wrong!! HAHAHA!! It's so stupid... it's just beliefs... you can't prove yours any more than I can prove mine... so fuck it! I'm not going to argue with stupid ass people about stupid ass shit any more... and I mean you Paperdoll... I don't think you even understand the stupid shit that comes out of your mouth. So... you know what... FUCK IT ALL!!

The people that argue about how stupid it is to argue over religion waste just as much time, achieve nor provide any further knowledge, AND are just as "stupid."

First I completely agree with you, I hate all religion and think it's insane how many people have DIED by their beliefs. However, do you really think that saying everything or anything you just said will change anyones thoughts on religion? NO. Thus, you are wasting just as much time as everyone else.

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Originally posted by Second Attention
I can't even begin to understand the fucking stupidity that surrounds religion. You know what I think? WHO FUCKING CARES! By all of this wondering and bickering and meandering in our own thoughts are we really achieving any sort of further knowledge on the subject? Especially if your all as closed minded as you seem(all is a bit of an overstatement). I mean... Why don't we sit here and try to prove each other wrong and fight about shit? Huh? We could make it like the fight over the Holy Land in Israel. Come on... it'll be fun... everyone loves fighting about religion! Because we're all right and everyone else is wrong!! HAHAHA!! It's so stupid... it's just beliefs... you can't prove yours any more than I can prove mine... so fuck it! I'm not going to argue with stupid ass people about stupid ass shit any more... and I mean you Paperdoll... I don't think you even understand the stupid shit that comes out of your mouth. So... you know what... FUCK IT ALL!!

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

no, he just doesn't like being proved wrong...


*hi-fives Rtex*

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Originally posted by liquid
First I completely agree with you, I hate all religion and think it's insane how many people have DIED by their beliefs . . .

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A wise man once said,

Something isn't worth living for unless it's worth dying for.

What are you living for right now?
Would you be willing to die for it?

Something to think about

I live for hope

I would die for my beliefs...

What about you? Are you so sure of yourself...






Secondly, I wasn't arguing with anyone, not any more, that was the whole point of that post. Sorry you guys missed that. Well, I take that back, I'm not sorry for Paperdoll. I think she needs to learn to limit her mouth on this forum, seeing as she's always telling people that they shouldn't go off about other shit besides dreaming, but then she does it herself. Not to mention I think it is rather childish for her to bash everyone elses beliefs. Not to mention the other personal bashes she posts all the time. Grow up.

Hmm, I shouldn't have started this (I replied to a post on page three of general disscusion and you guys started getting way off subject).

Blulanou42 wrote:

"...Adam and Eve... They ate a plant that made them trip."

They didn't trip, but they did fall. And Hard. The point is pivotal to the whole concept of mankind's sinful nature and why it was necessary for Christ to die -also why Jesus is also called "The second Adam" in the New Testament since he restored man's position (those who would believe) in the eyes of God.

Regarding 2nd Attention's post, I'd say SOMEONE must care -else they wouldn't have gotten so bent out of shape. ( :x ) Someone who doesn't care wouldn't have posted anything at all. If you think we're wasting cyberspace, find a different thread that doesn't razz ya :P

As far as the arguing goes, arguing is fun -not just for the sake of it, but for discussion, for sharing perspectives and learning about others. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you have to get all frustrated or try to bash someone over the head with your beliefs :roll:

And -I have to second the mention of the second law of thermodynamics... seems pretty stalwart to me. If all things go from order to decay it would seem we are DE-volving rather than evolving. I am far from an expert on the dating techniques and methodologies, but have heard many arguments from Christian scientists (meaning credible geologists, mathmeticians, etc. who also happen to be Christian) about evolutionists that simply overlook conflicting scientific theories and findings that conflict with the whole concept of evolution.
How does this relate to lucid dreaming? Umm... I've dreamt of dinosaurs!

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Not to mention I think it is rather childish for her to bash everyone elses beliefs. [/b]

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show me somewhere were i have BASHED someone for thier beliefs.

Evangel:
I don't know why your jumping on the hate on Second bandwagon... but... uhh... thanks... I guess....?


Paperdoll:

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Blulanou42:
To suggest that god created humanity from nothing is a bit hard to take, everything in the universe comes from a chain of events infinitely long, we call that creation and god. *
[/b]

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Quote:

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Paperdoll:
oh? what is a god? *
[/b]

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Quote:

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Dictionary.com wrote: *

God *

A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions. *
[/b]

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Paperdoll:
so are you trying to say that God didn't create the universe because your little human mind can't comprehend it? *
[/b]

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you know, at first i liked you. at first i thought you were a very intelligent person. but after that little display of total and complete idiocy, i have lost all respect for you.
[/b]

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Paperdoll(from another thread):
despite the fact that you are a loser, i'm happy for you. seriously. if you want tips jusr read more. i'd give you links to good websites, but i'm sick of posting them.
[/b]

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Ahem... Bash...
Bash bash bash

::coughbashcoughcough::

This is stupid, I just joined and already I feel like finding another forum. Id rather read about pot(other thread) than listen to this crap.

[quote]Paperdoll:

Quote:

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Paperdoll(from another thread):
despite the fact that you are a loser, i'm happy for you. seriously. if you want tips jusr read more. i'd give you links to good websites, but i'm sick of posting them.

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^this has nothing to do with religion. or bashing someone for what they believe.

Paperdoll wrote:

Quote:

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wasup wrote:

Paperdoll(from another thread):
despite the fact that you are a loser, i'm happy for you. seriously. if you want tips jusr read more. i'd give you links to good websites, but i'm sick of posting them.


[/b]

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I didn't write that!

no paperdoll did, dont worry about it wasup.

This thread needs to be closed :cry:

Admin? Moderator? ... :cry:

i know. heh, sorry...

He wasn't bashing anything, your just so closed up that when he suggested an idea that threatened your beliefs, you freaked on him. He was expressing HIS belief, not yours. I didn't see him call anything "stupid" or anyone a "loser" or anything else like that. He was just giving you an idea of what he thought. That was the point of Boards, I thought, was to express and share ideas, not stifle other people's ideas and get pissed off. We are all just putting our two cents in. Some things get heated, others don't, but whatever people are talking about you seem to have to throw in some un-needed sarcasm, or call someone a loser, or say "I didn't come from an ass-picking monkey!!"(or whatever you said), when no one even said you did, first off, and secondly, there are simply better ways to express things.

I went off earlier. That was wrong, I was pissed. But... I just think that you could be a little more conscientious of others, Paperdoll. You want to play the big goth bitch or whatever, then go to a goth forum or something. We're here to talk about dreams, and that almost never happens any more.


Sorry all... last post...

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Originally posted by Second Attention
big goth bitch or whatever

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LOL!

...frigin ass picking monkey you mean...






:roll: dont mind me.... :roll:
PS: I caught some incorrect spelling/grammer from Paperdoll EP (the frigen not fricken or fuc*ing) :shock: 8) :D :D

i'm sorry, i really don;t mean to hurt you people. to be honest, i think YOU ALL are awsome. (except curios :lol: ) i'm serious. you guys rock, no matter what you believe. yes, i disagree with what some of you say. and i'm sorry if i piss any of you off about what you believe i try not to believe it or not. now i personally think we should stop discussing religion in this forum, or at least have the admin make that a new section or whatever, because i think it is bringing up alot of negetivity.

Paperdoll & Rtex
I just wanna say WTF?!?!

You both talk in circles.

I know that niether of you can dream lucidly simply because you let these things rule your lives. Holy Christ, you both think that you disagree with me, but you each contradicted yourselves and then AGREED with me, wtf?!?!

Because each of you has such a limited concept of god
neither one of you can possibly be completely lucid, your BELIEFS
rule your dreams and realities, a worse hell then the Bible could even concieve.

I do not mean to start the 'war' again, but we both believe in the same thing, you both need to study more and realize this, or perhaps meditate, Idon't know, take some hdrugs...

God is everything, prz stop trying to define the infinite holy holy that we dream each night and live each day, that is impossible.

prz stop arguing and realize that we believe the same thing, I have just seen a shitton more then most.

it is BIGGOTRY to say that ANY miscocieve GOD...we all percieve God differently but God is ALWAYS the same: The everchanging constant of the universe.

ps- prz stop taking things LITERALLY, it makes you both sound foolish, all life is perception, therefor all life is metaphor.

love, peace, good dreamin

Quote:

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I do not mean to start the 'war' again, but we both believe in the same thing, you both need to study more and realize this, or perhaps meditate, Idon't know, take some hcr drugs...

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we believe the same things?

i believe

1. God is the creator of all things.
2. He created the earth and everything on and around it in six days.


and you're telling me you believe this too?

p.s. i have had several lucid dreams. i don't know why you'd think i can't. in those dreams, i'm conscious. i'm aware of what i see, hear, smell, feal, and taste. i'm aware of my awareness. that is what a lucid dream is, and i've had those. tell me what makes you think otherwise?[/quote]

WHolEE SHIT... I leave for like a half a day and you people are at each others throats... YikeS!

Ok ok simmah down now folks..

I want to argue this just because I like arguing, I was going to show data that supports each side and the same data being used by the other side.. but Yikes you people are tkaing this way to seriously... Somone else said it I forgot who

NEITHER is fact as NEITHER has been observed and givin definite prove as there is supporting data for each side

Simply put we are pathetic little mortals confused and trying to figure out where we came from...But the fact is we wont know untill its over..

..

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Originally posted by Paperdoll EP
*
in those dreams, i'm conscious. i'm aware of what i see, hear, smell, feal, and taste. i'm aware of my awareness.

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Dont tell me you didnt get that from Dr. Laburge's book :twisted:

not really. i just kinda said it. but i think he says that alot right? haven't read it in awhile :(

Can we drop this? I thought this forum was about lucid dreaming but Lo and behold people always want to bring up the exsistance thing...
Listen, believe what you want, if you think your right or wrong either way your right.
We are alive, so just thank your higher power for existance or kiss a fish and thank it for crawling out of the ooze and in a few million years creating you. Whats important is that you respect others for their beliefs, you don't have to like them but you have to tolerate them, just like you would tolerate a baby crying or a dog barking.
Just live your life content that in your mind your belief is right and don't bother others about their belief in theirs, if we can do that then everyone can get along and sing happy joy songs and hold each others hands.
So just leave the existance thing alone and have some awesome Lucid Dreams, Listen to Heavy metal and be a good person.

Rock on.

A narrow view of god
is a narrow lucidity

that's all I'm sayin'

if you are closed minded
you will never fully experience lucidity, you will instead experience a reflection of your own perception.

believe in the nothingness, empty your mind
and only then does it have the capactiy to be filled to the brim with the endless unknown universe

that some would call God



light virtue....

these are both most imperitive to the subject of lucid dreaming. I don't know why some think it's off subject. Hmm. well, maybe I just dreamt it all...I'm not sure :lol:


ps- re god forum is where I'm gonna start posting these, but I do think that novice lucid dreamers who are trying to make progress should consider what we have all been talking about. everything everyone said is interesting and much wisdom is to be gained from it.

look buddy, he said to STOP IT. the least you could do is shut up and take your babblery crap to your mom, she'll listen i'm sure.