am I evil???

[sluggo]

Hey guys, I've been getting LD's pretty frequently now thanks to all the help I found here. Now here's my issue: in my LDs I do lots of violent, mean and evil things. Sometimes I kill DCs for no good reason. I threw a baby off a roof. I threw a bunch of glasses at Ronald Reagan from the top of a building. I'm a sexual deviant. I drive around like a maniac and run over people on purpose. Usually it's a lot of fun at the time, but sometimes when I wake up I feel a little guilty. There's nothing wrong with indulging your dark side when it's only happening in your own private world right??

[Jdeadevil]

Don't worry, I randomly try to do violant things in my (lucid) dreams too. It's nothing to worry about. You just like having the freedom to do such things, either that or your mind secretly does.

[ninja9578]

Yes you are I've done some pretty bad things in lucid dreams, it's only a dream.

[Garlic]

No, you are not. LoL I noticed your sig that you stopped counting. I WILD to, everyone told me it was harder but on the first night I ever heard about lucid dreaming I attempted a WILD and was able to achieve sleep paralysis... you know, the jolting sensation? I was just laying there and BZZZT, I had a painless jolt of electricity and I cheered so loud I woke up my parents, lol. Anyway. I too have done some of the most vile things a human being can do in their waking life. And if you met me people would say that I am the nicest person they ever met. I always pay for my friends if they don't have enough money. When my friends try to hook me up I always tell them the god honest truth. My pick up line is this, swear to god: "my friends sent me over here to try to get me laid so if you could just give me a repulsed look that would be awesome because to be honest I'm celibate and have no interest in getting in your pants, I just want to appear normal to my friends." I've made three friends doing this, good friends that is. I judge a good friend as one who calls me, and these three girls call me to talk, lol. Because I just honestly don't care. My friends come to me, I never call them or say "lets do this." I just drift along like a parasite that doesn't care about feeding. I am completely honest too. My female friends ask me about my celibacy, and I tell them. "I'm not completely adverse to having sex with an attractive woman like your self, I won't turn you down if you make sexual advances. I just don't care about having sex." My male friends think it is some elaborate brilliant game I'm playing because I now am a part of three groups of friends and the amount of women I know on a first name basis has grown exponentially. I have more girls in my phone then any of my friends(dumbest competition ever), but only three of them call me. I may have lots of girls in my phone but I never, ever, call them... as I said, only three of them ever call me. I only call my male friends if there is a movie that *I* want to see and if I was being completely honest the only movies I ever want to see are anything involving the Frat Pack or Judd Apatow's pack... who usually do movies with the frat pack now so it's good. I should also note that my friends comments about my "celibacy" is that I'm putting a "bow tie on a piece of s***" They think celibate is just a fancy word for virgin. It is really hard to convey just how much I don't care about sex. They think I'm abnormal because that's all they care about. I miss the good old high school days where our primary concern was Magic the Gathering or MMORPGS... we still do that but the pursuit of women supersede that now... it is really petty. They actually keep track of all the girls that I sleep with, lol. I photocopied it and gave them to my girlfriends and they had a good ole laugh with it... especially because of the big fat blank next to my name. There is another problem I have, I can't stay on topic. One of my girlfriends suggested I have OCD, ADD, or that I'm bipolar and it's the main reason I'm going to a psychiatrist... because if it affects my dreams I'll be crushed. The one thing I love in life is dreaming. OMG I DID IT AGAIN, I"M SO SORRY. I'll get back on topic... holy crap... I forgot the topic, no joke *scrolls down* "Am I Evil" No, you are not evil. As I've said, I did vile things too. My dreaming has gone through phases. First it was like all about amazing feats, flying, super powers, etc. Next was the sex stage that lasted a few months, my goal was to have sex, achieve orgasm, and not wake up... it was completed. This phase has turned my masturbation from three to four times a day to about one to four times a week... if I wanted to I probably could go through life without ever masturbating in my waking life again... I just do it because I'm bored, I sit around and say, "I'm bored, what could I do." Then came the reinactment stage... before I'd dream I'd suggest the setting and what I'd like to do and just sort of go with it. My first one was reliving my life making different decisions. Like going through life where I never gave up swimming and it was my main aspiration in life... I was on an olympic relay team with Michael Phelps, I beat his butterfly record. Another was with soccer... what would it be like if I never gave up. Or like what would my life have been like if I joined a band in highschool as say, oh "The Doors." LOL I know right, really stupid stuff. During this phase was where I really experimented with time dilation. I couldn't tell you how long it lasts because I never look at a clock but it seems like hours, days, weeks, months, years. Which leads me to my current stage of just walking around and talking to whoever I run into. I'm not looking for anyone in particular, I just converse... it is the most fun I've had in my dreams and it has had the largest impact on my waking life... with my beliefs and what not. My turn from Christianity and Islam(long story), my practicing the ethic of reciprocity(aka 'the golden rule'), and my total nihilism when it comes to almost everything in my waking life. You are not normal until your dreams have a major impact on your waking life... like they have done with mine... as soon as I see a shrink I'm going to fill everyone in then I am gone from this site. My last login before today was in March of this year... no last year, when I first found the site. I only come to this site when I have a problem with dreaming. Of course when I come back I help when I can, but not out of kindness but out of boredom. This post spawned out of boredom and I wish I could have timed how much of my 16 waking hours it took up. It's why most of my posts are walls of text... my narcissism and boredom. This post should be about you and not me. To make up for it I will not address this post in this topic unless it is referring to you're question. I'm trying to change, I really am. PS: I went to the bathroom when I finished this post and my mind wandered, I am not spell checking it.

[CrimsonWolf]

Agreed, you're not evil. What is "evil" anyway? A point of view @ Garlic; that was a really interesting read, i'm glad you posted all that

[unseen wombat]

To answer that question I suppose you need to know what is what is the real "you"? Is it the flesh and bone person who walks around and needs to eat and go to the bathroom and stuff? Or is it your consciousness that resides in that meat body? If it's the former, then no, you're not evil. If it's the latter, then I suppose you need to ask why you're doing those terrible things. Do you genuinely enjoy it? Is the only reason you don't do it in real life because you would have to suffer the repercussions? Then yes, you are evil. If it's just because you know you're not really hurting anyone; if you would never do this in real life even if you had the chance to get away with it scott free, then no. Guys, not to detract from your replies, but to say, "no you're not evil, I do the same thing," doesn't really help. Just because someone else does something, doesn't make it right. I know I'm stepping on toes here, but we have to accept the possibility that maybe these things are evil. I'm not saying I'm any better though. Soon as I'm able to hang onto lucidity long enough, me and Jessica Alba have a date with destiny. And we won't be drinking tea. Does that make me evil? I'm not sure. I'm married, so I think it might. Of course, I'm of the opinion that I'm more than just this meat body, and my mind is more than just mush and electrical signals. These are deep questions, and as many forummers are here, that's how many opinions we'll have. It depends on your belief.

[roguext22]

Hey guys... There's nothing wrong with indulging your dark side when it's only happening in your own private world right?? hey dude... well its you already ! its not your dark side..its you. stop inducing, indulging, summoning "your dark side" lol..its only you.. you dont have any dark, bright or other sides..

[unseen wombat]

Regarding good and evil being merely societal standards: let me ask you, when someone crashes a plane into a building full of innocent people, do you sit there and say, "Interesting! these fellows come from a society where it is not considered wrong to do these things!" Or when some kid goes nuts and guns down 30 plus people at a school, do you watch your tv and say, "Hmm, this young man doesn't hold the same regard for human life that the majority of American society does! A fascinating difference." No, you think what they did was wrong, it was unjust. You think they should have acted in some other way. That may be American society pressing its Judeo-Christian concepts of mythological forces of good and evil upon you, but I refuse to believe that. There has to be some standard to which all men must be accountable. There has to be at least some kind of absolute right and wrong. Otherwise, there's no difference between Ghandi and O.J. Simpson. We’re just going to have to agree to disagree Garlic, because based on discussions I’ve had about this type of topic in the past, I’m sure you won’t be persuaded, and neither will I. Anyway, as to how this all relates to LD’s, if you accept, for a moment, that some things are just right or wrong, the question then becomes “who is doing them?” If you are conscious in your dream, then that person is you. If in real life, you had the ability to posess other people, and could hop from one body to another, could any of the things you do while possessing an 89 year old lady be attributable to her, because it was her body performing the actions, or would you be the one responsible? Certainly, you weren’t in your own body when grandma mowed down all those pedestrians, but your consciousness, that thing which makes you You, did it. You could, I suppose, also make the argument that only things that happen in real life count. In your dreams, the only person who is real is you. This might make it okay. I’m honestly not sure. I’ve been trying to figure this out myself since I started this. The question then, I guess, becomes, “Does what you do in dreams have any effect on you in real life?” and, more specifically, “Does doing bad things in dreams make you a worse person in real life?” I’ve really opened a can of worms. Another question is, “Which is more real, the dream me or the real life me?” Is there any difference? I don’t think there is. I’m not saying killing people in dreams will make you a killer IRL, I’m just wondering, does doing these things “get it out of your system?” or are you instead feeding into that side of you, making it stronger? People who torture and kill animals IRL often go on to do the same to people. In that case, they weren’t “getting it out of their system,” they were just making a part of them that was already there worse. Are dreams like that? I think it depends on the individual. You have to work this out in your own head. I think, for me at least, the release of frustrations from doing something bad satisfies me short term, but long term, it makes me require it more. Like a drug. Wow I’m confused. But not about absolute right and wrong, where I started this post. There is a difference between Martin Luther King Jr. and Mohammed Atta. And it’s not just because they were brought up in different parts of the world. Sorry.

[Lucidbulbs]

I don't think you should hold my opinion to the highest regard but, to kill and do all those things, if you know it's wrong and you are doing it for fun in lucids, it's a reflection on what you wish you could do in real life. People have lucid sex all the time but that doesn't make them sex addicts in real life, it just means they wish they could get laid more often [or just want to please their base selves, anyways]. If you do it with ill intentions, you're evil. Now, as far as evil goes, it's true, its subjective. BUT, get over the "let's be objective" junk, the truth is, everything is subjective, whether you realize it or not. Objectivity is the general subjective opinion or pattern repeated or shown often. As for personal reference, when lucid, I've thought of hurting people, but never do it. I feel bad just upon the though of it, and since the dream world is formed around thoughts, beliefs, emotions, memories, etc. It's safe to say how you feel or how you justify your lucid actions reflects greatly upon your mental being. For, a person can be mentally "evil" but repress such things in real life because they don't want to take consequence for such actions, in the dream world, you are omnipotent, so you'd go out on a limb and fulfill whatever you fancy. As for how sensible anything I said was... I'm not really sure. If I offend, I apologize, if I am of help, then I do not.

[Abra]

We decide which is right, we being society. Society says red is red. But in your head you are the society. You decide everything. If you want to call red 'green' who is to tell you that you are wrong? Sure you are wrong in this realm but not in your dreams. The real world is like a game of soccer, you have to use your feet, if you touch the ball you get penalized. In your dream you pick up the ball you only get penalized if you want to get penalized. At first you usually do get penalized though too because society has hard wired these beliefs into your head... I'm going to quote the Matrix here, and it is corny but applicable. I know that there is no penalty. That's the point. That is what makes lucid dreaming a temptation. Will you sell out your waking morals just so you can live out a fantasy in your dreams? If what you really want is to kill and maim and rape, does dreaming it make it any better?

[sluggo]

wow I didn't know this topic would trigger such deep conversations. in response to some of the questions you guys asked: when I'm in LDs I'm aware that I'm dreaming but I still have a little bit of dream logic controlling me. I dont' feel fully like my waking self, more like a fictionalized version of myself. I'm not a violent or mean person in waking life (except when I'm really drunk....err....maybe these dreams are my subconscious's way of showing me what I'm like when I'm being a drunken asshole since I'm usually blacked out and don't remember any of it)...I like the analogy someone said of Grand Theft Auto. LDing is basically exploring an extremely real virtual reality world, so in a way its kind of like being in a video game and testing it out by blowing shit up and killing people. And I think the reason I do violent things in my dreams is because I know nobody will really be hurt. Now here's a scary thought: what if one day I'm totally convinced I'm dreaming but I'm actually in real life and I go around killing people for fun. Ah!!!! That creeps me out.