Thread: am I evil???

Yes you are

I've done some pretty bad things in lucid dreams, it's only a dream.

No, you are not.

LoL I noticed your sig that you stopped counting. I WILD to, everyone told me it was harder but on the first night I ever heard about lucid dreaming I attempted a WILD and was able to achieve sleep paralysis... you know, the jolting sensation? I was just laying there and BZZZT, I had a painless jolt of electricity and I cheered so loud I woke up my parents, lol. Anyway.

I too have done some of the most vile things a human being can do in their waking life. And if you met me people would say that I am the nicest person they ever met. I always pay for my friends if they don't have enough money. When my friends try to hook me up I always tell them the god honest truth. My pick up line is this, swear to god: "my friends sent me over here to try to get me laid so if you could just give me a repulsed look that would be awesome because to be honest I'm celibate and have no interest in getting in your pants, I just want to appear normal to my friends." I've made three friends doing this, good friends that is. I judge a good friend as one who calls me, and these three girls call me to talk, lol. Because I just honestly don't care. My friends come to me, I never call them or say "lets do this." I just drift along like a parasite that doesn't care about feeding.

I am completely honest too. My female friends ask me about my celibacy, and I tell them. "I'm not completely adverse to having sex with an attractive woman like your self, I won't turn you down if you make sexual advances. I just don't care about having sex." My male friends think it is some elaborate brilliant game I'm playing because I now am a part of three groups of friends and the amount of women I know on a first name basis has grown exponentially. I have more girls in my phone then any of my friends(dumbest competition ever), but only three of them call me. I may have lots of girls in my phone but I never, ever, call them... as I said, only three of them ever call me. I only call my male friends if there is a movie that *I* want to see and if I was being completely honest the only movies I ever want to see are anything involving the Frat Pack or Judd Apatow's pack... who usually do movies with the frat pack now so it's good. I should also note that my friends comments about my "celibacy" is that I'm putting a "bow tie on a piece of s***" They think celibate is just a fancy word for virgin. It is really hard to convey just how much I don't care about sex. They think I'm abnormal because that's all they care about. I miss the good old high school days where our primary concern was Magic the Gathering or MMORPGS... we still do that but the pursuit of women supersede that now... it is really petty. They actually keep track of all the girls that I sleep with, lol. I photocopied it and gave them to my girlfriends and they had a good ole laugh with it... especially because of the big fat blank next to my name.

There is another problem I have, I can't stay on topic. One of my girlfriends suggested I have OCD, ADD, or that I'm bipolar and it's the main reason I'm going to a psychiatrist... because if it affects my dreams I'll be crushed. The one thing I love in life is dreaming.

OMG I DID IT AGAIN, I"M SO SORRY.

I'll get back on topic... holy crap... I forgot the topic, no joke *scrolls down*

"Am I Evil"

No, you are not evil. As I've said, I did vile things too. My dreaming has gone through phases. First it was like all about amazing feats, flying, super powers, etc. Next was the sex stage that lasted a few months, my goal was to have sex, achieve orgasm, and not wake up... it was completed. This phase has turned my masturbation from three to four times a day to about one to four times a week... if I wanted to I probably could go through life without ever masturbating in my waking life again... I just do it because I'm bored, I sit around and say, "I'm bored, what could I do." Then came the reinactment stage... before I'd dream I'd suggest the setting and what I'd like to do and just sort of go with it. My first one was reliving my life making different decisions. Like going through life where I never gave up swimming and it was my main aspiration in life... I was on an olympic relay team with Michael Phelps, I beat his butterfly record. Another was with soccer... what would it be like if I never gave up. Or like what would my life have been like if I joined a band in highschool as say, oh "The Doors." LOL I know right, really stupid stuff. During this phase was where I really experimented with time dilation. I couldn't tell you how long it lasts because I never look at a clock but it seems like hours, days, weeks, months, years.

Which leads me to my current stage of just walking around and talking to whoever I run into. I'm not looking for anyone in particular, I just converse... it is the most fun I've had in my dreams and it has had the largest impact on my waking life... with my beliefs and what not. My turn from Christianity and Islam(long story), my practicing the ethic of reciprocity(aka 'the golden rule'), and my total nihilism when it comes to almost everything in my waking life.

You are not normal until your dreams have a major impact on your waking life... like they have done with mine... as soon as I see a shrink I'm going to fill everyone in then I am gone from this site. My last login before today was in March of this year... no last year, when I first found the site. I only come to this site when I have a problem with dreaming. Of course when I come back I help when I can, but not out of kindness but out of boredom. This post spawned out of boredom and I wish I could have timed how much of my 16 waking hours it took up.

It's why most of my posts are walls of text... my narcissism and boredom. This post should be about you and not me. To make up for it I will not address this post in this topic unless it is referring to you're question. I'm trying to change, I really am.

PS: I went to the bathroom when I finished this post and my mind wandered, I am not spell checking it.

Agreed, you're not evil. What is "evil" anyway? A point of view

@ Garlic; that was a really interesting read, i'm glad you posted all that

To answer that question I suppose you need to know what is what is the real "you"? Is it the flesh and bone person who walks around and needs to eat and go to the bathroom and stuff? Or is it your consciousness that resides in that meat body? If it's the former, then no, you're not evil. If it's the latter, then I suppose you need to ask why you're doing those terrible things. Do you genuinely enjoy it? Is the only reason you don't do it in real life because you would have to suffer the repercussions? Then yes, you are evil. If it's just because you know you're not really hurting anyone; if you would never do this in real life even if you had the chance to get away with it scott free, then no.

Guys, not to detract from your replies, but to say, "no you're not evil, I do the same thing," doesn't really help. Just because someone else does something, doesn't make it right. I know I'm stepping on toes here, but we have to accept the possibility that maybe these things are evil. I'm not saying I'm any better though. Soon as I'm able to hang onto lucidity long enough, me and Jessica Alba have a date with destiny. And we won't be drinking tea. Does that make me evil? I'm not sure. I'm married, so I think it might. Of course, I'm of the opinion that I'm more than just this meat body, and my mind is more than just mush and electrical signals.

These are deep questions, and as many forummers are here, that's how many opinions we'll have. It depends on your belief.

Eh. I have my views on this, but you won't like them. Whenever I am conscious, whether in a dream or in life, I abide by the same morals. Otherwise I am contradictory. Why would anyone want to do such things, anyway?

I don't know, but 'dark' lucid dreaming reminds me of original sin, the idea that humans are innately evil. People who kill in their lucid dreams, they still want it to happen. As realistically as possible, too.

If you're feeling guilty, I think it's safe to say that you're not violent.

Originally Posted by unseen wombat

To answer that question I suppose you need to know what is what is the real "you"? Is it the flesh and bone person who walks around and needs to eat and go to the bathroom and stuff? Or is it your consciousness that resides in that meat body? If it's the former, then no, you're not evil. If it's the latter, then I suppose you need to ask why you're doing those terrible things. Do you genuinely enjoy it? Is the only reason you don't do it in real life because you would have to suffer the repercussions? Then yes, you are evil. If it's just because you know you're not really hurting anyone; if you would never do this in real life even if you had the chance to get away with it scott free, then no.

Guys, not to detract from your replies, but to say, "no you're not evil, I do the same thing," doesn't really help. Just because someone else does something, doesn't make it right. I know I'm stepping on toes here, but we have to accept the possibility that maybe these things are evil. I'm not saying I'm any better though. Soon as I'm able to hang onto lucidity long enough, me and Jessica Alba have a date with destiny. And we won't be drinking tea. Does that make me evil? I'm not sure. I'm married, so I think it might. Of course, I'm of the opinion that I'm more than just this meat body, and my mind is more than just mush and electrical signals.

These are deep questions, and as many forummers are here, that's how many opinions we'll have. It depends on your belief.

Good and Evil, right and wrong, they are subjective terms. What is evil to one person is 'right' to another person. Society decides what good and evil is, individuals don't. If the majority believe something then it becomes true, reality is a social construct. Since in your dreams you are society YOU decide what is good and evil even though in the tangible realm society would perceive it as evil.

Having sex with Jessica Alba isn't evil if she is willing it is not evil and since it is only going on in your head who is to say it ever happened? In my opinion lucid dreaming is the best tool to stay 'faithful.' It has helped me personally come to accept being a virgin at 21 and being completely okay with it and also the reason I do not actively pursue having sex in the real world.

So killing people in your dreams and doing vile things is perfectly okay. In fact, doing it in real life is okay; you just have to be ready to deal with the consequences society has created for doing the evil things. I personally would never kill anyone because when ever I do something in real life I ask my self, "would I want someone to do that to me?"

Off Topic PS: My first celebrity I porked was Amy Smart and the weird thing is she wouldn't have been my first choice, she was just there and I did it

EDIT to respond to a previous post:

Originally Posted by Abra

Eh. I have my views on this, but you won't like them. Whenever I am conscious, whether in a dream or in life, I abide by the same morals. Otherwise I am contradictory. Why would anyone want to do such things, anyway?

I don't know, but 'dark' lucid dreaming reminds me of original sin, the idea that humans are innately evil. People who kill in their lucid dreams, they still want it to happen. As realistically as possible, too.

I commend you on doing that but they aren't the same. They are completely different worlds with different rules. Physics doesn't apply in a dream. You create the rules, you decide which is right... I'm going to quote one of my favorite albums, the album open and closes with this quote, it is actually a poem and I'm taking the lines out of context but it applies here... I'll link the lyrics if you want to read them in context, it is a great album by the way.

Cold hearted orb that rules the night,
Removes the colours from our sight,
Red is gray and yellow white,
But we decide which is right.
And which is an illusion?

We decide which is right, we being society. Society says red is red. But in your head you are the society. You decide everything. If you want to call red 'green' who is to tell you that you are wrong? Sure you are wrong in this realm but not in your dreams.

The real world is like a game of soccer, you have to use your feet, if you touch the ball you get penalized. In your dream you pick up the ball you only get penalized if you want to get penalized. At first you usually do get penalized though too because society has hard wired these beliefs into your head... I'm going to quote the Matrix here, and it is corny but applicable.

I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.

source for first quote: http://www.bobspixels.com/kaibab.org/moodies/mxdays.htm
the album is called Days of Future Passed and chronicles a day from when he awakes to when he falls asleep... It is a conceptual album and the first symphonic rock album ever

Originally Posted by Garlic

Good and Evil, right and wrong, they are subjective terms.

Regardless, all of us hold ourselves to some sort of standard. Some place very rigid restrictions on themselves, while others are lax and really don't care. But everyone has a concept of what they feel is right and wrong. One can choose to ignore it and become numb to the idea, but it's still there.

Sluggo, the way that I view dreams is that they are a broken mirror image of our real lives. They depict the places we've been, the people whom we've seen, the emotions which we've felt, and the ideas which we've created. In non-lucid dreams, I feel that those things about which we constantly dream are a reflection of things that are going on in real life, whether we are conscious of them or not.

When we are lucid, we typically become able to make our own decisions. Now those decisions may still be skewed by the fact that we are not experiencing any external stimuli and the fact that we are dreaming causes us our thoughts to go in any number of directions. What it boils down to is, do you feel that the choices that you're making in your dreams go against what you feel is right or wrong? If so, are you willing to put forth the effort to change? If not, well, that's your decision.

It's true that "no one else knows" what you're doing in a dream, but the fact remains that you know. A man once said, "You can make a choice, but once you've chose, your choice chooses for you." Just take the time to think about what will come from the choices you make. I don't know how old you are, but as time goes on, you learn how little choices that you make can have very interesting and often unpredictable effects later in life.

I tend to be long-winded when I get going. I'll stop here.

It's not evil if it's just fun, meaningless violence. Don't worry, you are no more evil than any Grand Theft Auto player

Originally Posted by Amethyst Star

Regardless, all of us hold ourselves to some sort of standard. Some place very rigid restrictions on themselves, while others are lax and really don't care. But everyone has a concept of what they feel is right and wrong. One can choose to ignore it and become numb to the idea, but it's still there.

Sluggo, the way that I view dreams is that they are a broken mirror image of our real lives. They depict the places we've been, the people whom we've seen, the emotions which we've felt, and the ideas which we've created. In non-lucid dreams, I feel that those things about which we constantly dream are a reflection of things that are going on in real life, whether we are conscious of them or not.

When we are lucid, we typically become able to make our own decisions. Now those decisions may still be skewed by the fact that we are not experiencing any external stimuli and the fact that we are dreaming causes us our thoughts to go in any number of directions. What it boils down to is, do you feel that the choices that you're making in your dreams go against what you feel is right or wrong? If so, are you willing to put forth the effort to change? If not, well, that's your decision.

It's true that "no one else knows" what you're doing in a dream, but the fact remains that you know. A man once said, "You can make a choice, but once you've chose, your choice chooses for you." Just take the time to think about what will come from the choices you make. I don't know how old you are, but as time goes on, you learn how little choices that you make can have very interesting and often unpredictable effects later in life.

I tend to be long-winded when I get going. I'll stop here.

We do all have a moral compass the guides us in our waking life but when we dream it shouldn't have to apply.

There should be no right and wrong in our dreams, every decision you make is a morally right decision. I really feel bad for people who think what they do in dreams is 'wrong' and will somehow have a bearing on their waking life. What I mean by that is drawing a correlation between killing someone in their dream and then killing someone in the waking life, it is absurd when you are lucid in a dream. I can see where if someone had a normal dream and they kill people they could draw some connection but a lucid dream is a complete flipping of the script. You consciously decide to do it. Why do I kill people? Because society says I cannot. I like to do things in dreams that I'm not allowed to do in real life. It's why I fly, breathe under water, do feats of strength in dreams, not necessarily because I want to but because I can't do it in my waking life and I'd like to experience it. This logic applies to actions deemed evil by society too. We do them not because we want to but because we can. I really have done some vile stuff in dreams, seriously vile. I did them because I can't do it in my waking life. Would I kill someone in real life if society deemed it okay? Who knows. Would I kill someone if I was given carte blanch in real life? No, why? Because I've already had my fill in lucid dreaming. Perception is reality, I've perceived killing someone already and I don't need to do it again, I have no desire to do it again.

There are different rules that govern our waking lives, be they the laws of a particular society or the laws of physics... but our dreams have a set of laws too... and that law is my law. The key is to know the difference. Well, there is another law too... you have to awake... and from what I've heard is that some people have had lucid dreams that have lasted 'lifetimes' thanks to time dilation... and time dilation is possible... I've had a dream that has lasted months. Of course there is no way to discern if it were two months or three months, it just felt like months... though in reality it could have only been seconds.

Originally Posted by unseen wombat

To answer that question I suppose you need to know what is what is the real "you"? Is it the flesh and bone person who walks around and needs to eat and go to the bathroom and stuff? Or is it your consciousness that resides in that meat body? If it's the former, then no, you're not evil. If it's the latter, then I suppose you need to ask why you're doing those terrible things. Do you genuinely enjoy it? Is the only reason you don't do it in real life because you would have to suffer the repercussions? Then yes, you are evil. If it's just because you know you're not really hurting anyone; if you would never do this in real life even if you had the chance to get away with it scott free, then no.

...ummm... I guess by your standards I myself am evil. I am the latter and I have had some very disturbing lucid and non lucid dreams... I won't go into experiences. But yeah... this thread just gave me another part of my existence that I need to mull over. Great. I hope I won't start having these dreams more often...

whoa, what a lot of feedback! I skimmed through most of it, but just wanted to put my two cents in: There's no such thing as evil in dreams. I see lucid dreams like videogames (GTA type games especially). Killing innocent people and running them over in a car doesn't make the gamer evil. That's what lucid dreaming is all about, no moral restraints and no consequenses. Just don't let that stuff follow you into the real world!

I don't think you're evil. If I could get lucid more often I would probably be pretty violent too. I think random violence is kind of funny myself.

"I threw a baby off a roof." Maybe I'm evil, I seriously am LOLing right now visualizing that.