Thread: Death is Death

Originally posted by Awhislyle
What about people that sleep walk? Or move in their dreams?

good point

Originally posted by Awhislyle
I have never bungie jumped, but I can do that in a dream
I had never wakeboarded before, but I did it in a dream, then I did it in reallife and it was pretty close (except if was alot harder to get up)

It is not impossible to do things you have never done before.

Many people die for some period of time and are then brought back to life, by the accounts of what has been said to happen I can formulate my own rather realistic way in which it happens

Well you can watch people bungie jump. You can see people wakeboarding, and all that they experience. These are things that WE can see and experience second hand. However, you cannot SEE what happens when someone dies. All you see is what happens to them physically. You may think you are getting an accurate portrayal of death just because you've heard other's accounts of it...but you may be entirely wrong.

I agree with this statement by CalmoftheEye "It is a fact that you have never "died" in a dream, because you have no idea what death will look, feel, or sound like. If you did, you would be dead."

So unless you personally have had some sort of near death experience or been technically "dead" for even a few seconds I don't think you could ever know what death could even possibly FEEL like. I've died several times and committed LD suicide a few times (just for kicks) and I usually just sort of float around and fade to black after I die. Doesn't mean that's what death is like.

Well when you die and your brain stops transmitting electrical signals, you no longer see anything, hear anything, feel anything. Its not even black, its just non existence, but of course you don't experience it, you dont exist either.

Its like if you had a time machine and went back to right when the Big Bang happened. You might image being in a big black and watching a little object explode. But really even with a time machine, that couldn't happen, outside of the black hole there was nothing, not black, nothing, it didn't exist.

From a scientific standpoint atleast.

Originally posted by CalmoftheEye
No one has seen what death is like an lived to tell it. Yes, a pun was intended.
.

Well, dont laught too soon, how about this one:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/rein...arnation04.html ??

And there are many, many reports, only usually people donttgo this far.. And it is my personal belief that you, and I, have already died many times before but we dont seem to remember it just now. One day, we will.

Cyledehysp, that article was really interesting. Thanks, but now I have just bookmarked four more pages, and they just keep stacking up. I don't think I'll get through any time soon. Also, there is a snippet at the end worth pointing out as it pertains to this forum.

Originally posted by Mellen-Thomas Benedict NDE link
What happens when we dream? We are multi-dimensional beings. We can access that through lucid dreaming. In fact, this universe is God's dream. One of the things that I saw is that we humans are a speck on a planet that is a speck in a galaxy that is a speck. Those are giant systems out there, and we are in sort of an average system. But human beings are already legendary throughout the cosmos of consciousness. The little bitty human being of Earth/Gaia is legendary. One of the things that we are legendary for is dreaming. We are legendary dreamers. In fact, the whole cosmos has been looking for the meaning of life, the meaning of it all. And it was the little dreamer who came up with the best answer ever. We dreamed it up. So dreams are important.

Sorry for being such a skeptic, but if this guy knew about lucid dreaming, all of that could just have been a long vivid LD. Also, half the stuff he said made no actual sense...

A handy use for dream death:
Because death is something than no one reading this forum has ever actually experienced, it's a pretty fool-proof and convenient dream sign that I've used to go lucid many times after car crashes, space ship crashes, being shot, falling etc. Right as I'm about to have that moment of impact, I inevitably think, "Dang, I hope this is a dream" (I’ll probably end up thinking that same thing at the moment of my actual death, too) Then at the moment when, if the event had happened in waking life, I would die, I wake up within the dream, think "Hmm, that's good. Guess I'm dreaming, after all," and continue into a lucid dream.

I was just about to mention reincarnation and that many of us may well have experienced death in past lives but has been all but erased from our minds. Under hypnosis people can reveal extraordinary truths for past existences with startling clarity which can be very illuminating, so I think it is probably quite likely that those who have experienced death within their dreams may well know what it is really like. Only problem is that it can't be proved.

[quote]Yes, a dream is a temporary separation from our physical body. What that means is we have more than one body. When dreaming, there is the little silver cord that keeps you connected. When you die, that cord permanently disconnects.

I believe a dream actually takes place somewhere in outer space, as opposed to inside the mind.

Evidence A: During lucid dreams, on occasion I will jump really high. The dream scene goes away and I find myself in outer space. Soon another dream scene will for around me. A different scene in a little different location.
Evidence B: During an OBE I floated right into outer space towards a higher astral plane. When I got close, I felt fast vibrations and I was suddenly "bounced" back into my body, feeling the travel all the way back. In a dream in which I turned lucid, I was talking with someone, and he too was vibrating in this same manner when I went to high five him. Again I was bounced back, also feeling the journey back into my body.

You can become more familiar with your other bodies if you astral project or go out of body. When one goes out of body, one's vision becomes spherical, it's really interesting. Perhaps it's because we only have one eye, I have not entirely figured that one out.

I'm not sure what implication you are making with the calorie remark. Also, you would have to specify which mind, or brain, uses the calories, and also how they are burned would help clear things up.
I think your SP comment applies towards me, but I am already lost, I cannot figure it out.[list]
The calorie and the sleep paralysis would imply that you are still in fact there in your bed physically & mentally.

I have read a couple of books about astral projection.
Having an astral body.....
But that does not mean to say it is a separate body.
Just as you say "a dream" is a dream a separate entity in itself. It is just like consciousness. It may have the capabilities to travel but it does not mean it has gone somewhere else.
It would fall along the lines of Like remote viewing and the like..
And how to you claim your evidence to be nothing more than a manifested conscious dream.
Albiet, I have had what I believe to be an OBE. So I don't totally disagree with you. Because it did feel entirely different than that of a LD. However I am not convinced that it was not just a deeper realm of my subconscious.

Originally posted by CalmoftheEye
I have to disagree with the above. What you are saying of death (blacking out) may not be anywhere close to what death is like. That is merely what you think death will be like. No one has seen what death is like an lived to tell it. Yes, a pun was intended.

You cannot die in a dream, because you cannot die without, well, dying.

some of the same tibetan buddhists who perfected lucid dreaming hundreds of years ago also claim to have maintained awareness past death and into a new womb, right into a new life.

the tibetan book of the dead is quite interesting (i still haven't read it in its entirety).

not saying i believe them, but its interesting to consider...they were right about LD's after all, why would they lie about that...

another interesting thing to consider is people who claim "i don't dream". obviously most of them do dream, the same as anyone else, they just don't remember it. the awareness was lacking.
or people who accept normal dreams, but think LD'ing is bullshit, just because they haven't mastered the awareness neccessary to experience it.
in the same way, maybe those who accept LD'ing may think maintaining awareness without a physical body is impossible, but that doesn't make it so.

a part of me strongly suspects it is possible to maintain awareness after death, and be born again. if one investigates the incredible level of awareness required for various visualization and meditation techniques tibetan buddhists have used they quickly gain a level of respect.

paragraphs not related

Hey, I think you all have some pretty good idea's about how death/life but the thing is, i'd have to disagree with all of them "Because" we can not be completely certain of something we dont fully understand. People say this and that, but i'd really believe stuff like that when I experience it. so thats my meaning of life, find out life and death.

another note, death is death, it means your heart stops beating, a corpse, not cause you dream. If someone was dreaming you wouldnt say their "dead". Also Its been said (not sure if proven) that people have died for a few minutes in the hospital but came back such as being defibrillated.

And on a non related note, if we can dream in another dimension, do you think that we link dreams and meet other people within our dreams? To summarize, talk you your best friend while sleeping and talking to them the next day about the dream without sounding like some sorta drug addict

Originally posted by Awhislyle
I have never bungie jumped, but I can do that in a dream
I had never wakeboarded before, but I did it in a dream, then I did it in reallife and it was pretty close (except if was alot harder to get up)

It is not impossible to do things you have never done before.

Many people die for some period of time and are then brought back to life, by the accounts of what has been said to happen I can formulate my own rather realistic way in which it happens

I'm assuming the point of your post is to disprove my theory, so here I go.

Others have wakeboarded and or snowboarded, you agree? You have talked to people about those things, have you not?

You can make an educated guess based on the information you learned.

Who do you know that has died?

Maybe a few people, or maybe a lot of people, but regardless, you have NEVER talked to them about what it's like to die. You NEVER will.

No one who is alive right now knows what it's like to die, because they are alive. Just because you "drown" and the oxygen stops going to your brain (causing you to pass out)doesn't mean you suddenly know what it's like to die.

Sure, you can make an educated guess, but since no one actually knows what it is like to die, you will never know if you are right.

Death MAY be like passing out, but no one will ever know until they are dead.

Dead people don't come back to life. If someone returns after "dying", they were never dead in the first place. Clinically dead maybe, but not dead.

*ends death discussion*


As for dreams taking place in outer space, and your "proof"...

Could it be that maybe since your subconsious expects your dream to be in outer space, it is? Dreams are made of whatever your mind wants, and they take place in your mind.

No one knows what the mind is, it is certainly not your brain.

I do believe OBEes are possible though, since everything in existance is connected through energy.

How about this guy:



He dances with zombies(dead who come back), and morphes himself into diferent colors, he can and most surely answer this

I think I have to put my point across seeing that CalmOftheEye thinks my dieing is BS.

You're correct in saying that I don't know what death is. But what your wrong about my death in dreams as not being death. I did die, and since I don't truely know what death is like my mind put all the bits of information together to create an edjucated guess of what it would be like given the ways I had been killed. I would have to agree with you if I were to have gotten up after every "fatal" experience and did jumping jacks or something, b/c that would not be death. (but comical none the less). So. I do infact "die" in dreams, and it's not REALY death b/c I would REALY be dead, it's "death" of my lucid body in the manner that my mind thinks it to be.

You're correct in saying that I don't know what death is. But what your wrong about my death is dreams as not being death. I did die, and since I don't truely know what death is like my mind put all the bits of information together to create an edjucated guess of what it would be like given the ways I had been killed. I would have to agree with you if I were to have gotten up after every \"fatal\" experience and did jumping jacks or something, b/c that would not be death. (but comical none the less). So. I do infact \"die\" in dreams, and it's not REALY death b/c I would REALY be dead, it's \"death\" of my lucid body in the manner that my mind thinks it to be.[/b]

Very well said, AdvanDreams. I've "died" in dreams before, but couldn't really explain the difference between my mind's guess of what death would be like, and actually dying. I don't think anyone could debate the fact that people have dreamed they "died" - which is different than dying in your sleep.

Thanks Burns. I am just trying to get everyone to see what I am trying to explain. Although it's a realy shady subject that is quite hard to understand.

Originally posted by AdvenDreams
I think I have to put my point across seeing that CalmOftheEye thinks my dieing is BS.

You're correct in saying that I don't know what death is. But what your wrong about my death in dreams as not being death. I did die, and since I don't truely know what death is like my mind put all the bits of information together to create an edjucated guess of what it would be like given the ways I had been killed. I would have to agree with you if I were to have gotten up after every \"fatal\" experience and did jumping jacks or something, b/c that would not be death. (but comical none the less). So. I do infact \"die\" in dreams, and it's not REALY death b/c I would REALY be dead, it's \"death\" of my lucid body in the manner that my mind thinks it to be.

You are only correct when you put the " " around died, death, or any other variation.

I agree with what you say now that you elaborated. What happened in your dream caused what you percieve as death to happen.

Now that that has been cleared up, ONWARD MEN!

Hahaha finaly we agree on something!

I have died a few times in dreams (not LDs), though the dream keeps going on like I'm still alive. People talk to me, etc.

...I guess that's not really dying, is it? I definitely looked like it, but didn't feel (heh, well how would I know?) like it at all.

I had a dream once, where there were sandy hills or something, and I think I ran straight into a train (from the side, or from the front, you tell me). Then there was a kind of digital afterlife people made. I didn't like it, so I "disconnected" myself. Then there was another place, and I was a freaky skeleton with a black robe, and a 6.5' big red dude tried to kill me. (No relation the devil) There was some more stuff, but that stuff is kinda irrelivant. BTW, this dream was not lucid, but I could control my actions, and I had a clear mind.

I didn't quite remember how I died, but I remember thinking, "Uhh, what now? Am I dead or what? Meh."

In my opinion, the bodies unconcious mind learns from the environment it lives in. In dreams, the unconcious mind tries to express itself to the concious mind in a way that the concious mind understands, but with a few changes, to get the message across. This is how I think the unconcious mind tries to solve what it percieves as "problems".

So The Body, in general would have pretty good idea of what almost anything of it's world is like. So I think that both arguments are valid. The body does know what death is like, but probably has it wrong as well.

I've had a dream where I was playing Unreal Tournament. I was dying all the time actually
It hurted a bit in the stomach (only a split second) and then I just respawn. Nothing special

I've heard that if your REM is intense enough, when you die in your dream, your brain actually believes you have died and begins to shut down. But I've never actually heard of it actually happening... I think it's BS...But, one time I was having an LD in which I died and I had a hard time waking up... It was weird and scary... I blacked out, I could think but I couldn't open my eyes. And then I almost lost consiousness but I ended up waking up....

Originally posted by CalmoftheEye
I have to disagree with the above. What you are saying of death (blacking out) may not be anywhere close to what death is like. That is merely what you think death will be like. No one has seen what death is like an lived to tell it. Yes, a pun was intended.

You cannot die in a dream, because you cannot die without, well, dying.

people have died and lived to tell about it events of a person coming back after being called clinically dead happens

I remember having a dream, not even a dream, it was very vivid HI, and I was sitting on my bed looking at the TV which wasn't even on. I'm just sitting there, minding my own business, when all of a sudden this irrational fear overtakes me, and I start slowly falling toward the bed, with everything slowly going black, and me losing my physical senses. I thought I was dying, I was truly convinced for a moment that I was dying. So all goes black, and I'm still concious, and then I realized that was just Sleep-Paralysis. I was so relieved, but it convinced that dying while concious of it is like falling into Sleep-Paralysis for the last time.