Thread: Befriending intellectual oppressors in a dream

I was reading through some old newbie posts and came across a recommendation by Howetzer to befriend adversaries in a dream. Sage advice. I think it's reasonable to say that only good things can result from that.

However, I was wondering how I might apply this to befriending intellectual adversaries in a dream - dream characters who do no oppose you in any sort of violent or physical way, but rather talk to down to you from a position of authority about something you reject - and it seems much more difficult.

For example: Just this morning I had a peculiar dream where I was at a Catholic boarding school and I was secretly meeting with a nun, who was helping me learn occult arts. A priest interrupted us and, behind a mask of courtesy, ordered the nun to leave and not teach me again. The worst part was that I was skipping another class after already having been in trouble for this once before. I'm a very ethical person and I strongly felt there was nothing wrong here. The priest was about to tell me how disappointed he was, what trouble I was, and so forth. He was trying to help me. And yet, I was profoundly against him.

After he started talking down to me I started talking down to him. How the Catholic church has been one of the most inconsistent organizations on the planet. He changed from a younger-looking man into an older-looking one, talking back to me with canned arguments. Students flooded into the room, apparently oblivious to our discussion, and it distracted him. He was worried and I felt his anxiety. As a DC, he was a part of me after all.

How do you befriend an intellectual adversary in a dream? I emphasize that because I do not think it is markedly the same in real life. The same way you do not befriend a murder or vicious animal in real life by turning around and saying "hi" or something, like you might in a dream.

Listening can work wonders in real life, but I doubt that would work in a dream, because they would just tell you more of what you don't want to hear. I'm not even sure asking questions would work either, for similar reasons. It doesn't help if the DC is playing the part of an authority figure. Perhaps the best thing is to just ask them to leave you alone?

Sometimes even friends must ask each other of that. And, perhaps ironically, leaving a friend alone when they ask for it may be one of the most friendly things that you can do.

the underlying and unwarranted assumption you go by is that people would want to be your friend. The Priest sent the Nun away because he thought it was wise that she not fraternize with you, and he likewise wanted to limit his exchange with you, giving you only the most cursory and formulaic answers, not wishing to take any real trouble with you, since he considered the relationship insignificant.

We might as well be listening to an insect talk about becoming everybody's friend, when to most people a 'friendly' bug would be a worse thing than one which would rather just mind its own business.

Interpret these dream symbols: The nun was dressed in white. The priest dressed in black. When the nun was in the room, light was shining through the windows. When the priest entered, it was cloudy. And that's not the half of it. You assume I typed everything, do you? You would beg for the kind of peace and revelation I've had. I'm a better Catholic than you are every day of the week.

Now go away, Leo. Please.

Originally posted by Leo Volont
the underlying and unwarranted assumption you go by is that people would want to be your friend.

Given the fact that dreams tend to be driven to a significant extent by expectation, wouldn't it be more logical to assume that his subconcious is simply not expecting or assuming that the dream characters would want to be his friend? Don't get me wrong Leo, but from what I've read, many of your posts come off as delusional and narrow-minded. You always seem to assume that you are right and that what you state is fact, but fail to take into account that each and every person is different, including the low level or fundamental concepts which our mind were built upon and serve as the basis for everything that we know.

Anyways, as for the original question. Personally, when lucid I would concerntrate on the expectation that someone will appear within the dream who is the person or the type of person that you're looking for. I usually do this by opening a door and concerntrating will and expectation that the person I want to meet will be behind it. I've had success doing this before.

You could try to communicate with your subconcious in this way. What I mean is, summon a dream character who is also lucid as to the context of his / her existence (a human manifestation of your subconcious within a dream). Such a person should be the most valuable person that you could ever speak to IMO, because the person would serve as a direct link to everything that you have ever known, if that makes any sense. I guess it's what some people might call a dream guide.

Well, that's what works for me anyway.

Oh, right, expectation. In my effort to stay objective, I keep forgetting about that. Thanks, Martin.

I dont know if this would work but you could simply just say, hey you want to be my friend.

This is probably one of the silliest threads I've ever made. The solutions are so simple, once you have full lucidity, as opposed to just partial. Thanks, guys.

Thanks Ex Nine
In short, befriending them has worked for me every time!
If you believe they are manifested from the nature of your subconscious, how could this not work.
If DCs are from an astral plane, demons, angles or something with their own agenda then it may be a different story.

Howetzer, I apologize. I didn't recognize your first question because it didn't end in a question mark. It is a very insightful question and I thank you for asking it.

[quote]If you believe they are manifested from the nature of your subconscious, how could this not work.

Because, being manifestations of the subconscious, they exist in the same mental space as thoughts and ideas and, therefore, are sensory encapsulations of the same stuff.

So, how can I befriend a thought or idea that I don't accept?

I wasn't making that thinking explicit in my original post and I appreciate you asking me to clarify it.

We could use more Howetzers in this forum. (I like the sound of that )