Thread: Why would anyone want to lucid dream, surely it's undesirable?

Our imagination gives us the ability to mentally construct images and concepts. Our dreams come from our imagination. It is okay to control/manipulate our imagination, mental images and concepts, so it is okay to control/manipulate our dreams.

Not all lucid dreams allow you to control things. Most of mine have been very much like regular dreams, but with the knowledge that I'm dreaming while it happens. That's really all lucidity means, though some people do gain dream control as they get increasingly advanced in their skills.

Funny how you say that, in my opinion, both the waking self and the dreaming self is entirely the same.

When you're awake you're awake, when you're sleep you think you're awake, same person just in different worlds, but when you're lucid, Its like the same thing as meditating in the real world, awareness.

Being god of a world sounds good for..... The first 30 seconds.... BUT what is really fun is creativity.
Using lucidity and dreaming for creativity. You don't have to fly away and sex down npcs, yeah that's not fun to me, what's fun to me is being in a persistent realm with lots of limits so to make it more fun!

So don't diss lucid dreaming, it's pretty nice for all sorts of reasons besides the general...stigmas...

Lucid dreaming is not the same as bringing the WSM, as you term it, into the dream world. The WSM cannot be brought into the dream world, because it is to a certain extent made up of your physical body, and this body is left behind in physical reality, while the dream plays out.

Lucid dreaming means keeping your conscious awareness centered on the dream world to such a large extent that you realize the dream is a dream. Lucid dreaming does not imply aping the WSMs behaviour inside the dream (that would also not be possible, since, as mentioned, a lot of the WSM stays outside). Simply observing, without in any other way acting, would be a completely reasonable activity within a lucid dream (and, from my experience, it is also likely to allow the lucid dream to go on for longer, whereas taking drastic action within a dream is likely to end it rapidly).

^^ That.

And This:

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Not all lucid dreams allow you to control things. Most of mine have been very much like regular dreams, but with the knowledge that I'm dreaming while it happens. That's really all lucidity means, though some people do gain dream control as they get increasingly advanced in their skills.

And this:

Originally Posted by Skipper1100

Funny how you say that, in my opinion, both the waking self and the dreaming self is entirely the same.

When you're awake you're awake, when you're sleep you think you're awake, same person just in different worlds, but when you're lucid, Its like the same thing as meditating in the real world, awareness.

Being god of a world sounds good for..... The first 30 seconds.... BUT what is really fun is creativity.
Using lucidity and dreaming for creativity. You don't have to fly away and sex down npcs, yeah that's not fun to me, what's fun to me is being in a persistent realm with lots of limits so to make it more fun!

So don't diss lucid dreaming, it's pretty nice for all sorts of reasons besides the general...stigmas...

Whether you're awake or dreaming, dd22qq, it's all You, like it or not.

That lucidity offers a chance to witness first-hand the creative genius of your dreaming mind is to me a plus, almost an inspirational moment that affirms how creative and, well, interesting you can be regardless of the limits often applied to a waking-life self. That creativity need not include lucidly changing your dream in any way, either; after many years of LD'ing, I personally have noticed that the observation of a dream can be far more entertaining and enlightening than the conscious creation of a dream. Either way, though, the opportunity to be present during a dream should not be dismissed.

Also:

Originally Posted by dd22qq

Surely the whole point of sleep and dreaming, both restorative- and appeal-wise, involves an escape from that very version of me. The letting go of everything I consciously understand myself to be. That sweet surrender.

And from an experiential point of view, surely the most intriguing aspect of sleeping and dreaming is the exploration of the subconscious. A shift in modes of reality, the entering of another realm if you like.

And in order for that to happen most effectively involves the complete abandonment of WSM. He's only going to interfere with the process. The less of a hold WSM has, the better.

I'm not so sure about that. Your dream-character "you," when not lucid, tends to pretty much reflect your waking-life self; in the end you're really not abandoning everything you consciously understand yourself to be in a NLD, you are simply not noticing that self being incorporated into the dream -- which, BTW is very similar to how we move through waking-life, consciously speaking. Sure, the circumstances of your dream might get pretty bizarre, but the DC "you" in a NLD will tend to navigate those circumstances in about the same way as it would in waking-life. Indeed, one thing lucidity offers is a chance to truly abandon that waking-life ego and learn about your self in a unique, non-dual way... you have an opportunity, when lucid, to create that "sweet surrender" and explore your deeper nature without the weight of waking-life baggage.

Plus:

And while asleep, dreaming me is a me I'm more interested in exploring than WSM. Were I ever to encounter WSM in a dream, I'm sure my reaction would be 'What the hell are you doing here?'. When retiring, I don't want to see that guy again until the next morning (and even then I may not be terribly glad to see him).

Maybe a little LD'ing will help you better appreciate that "WSM," after you discover some facets in him that you didn't realize exist! Remember also that both these selves, dreaming and waking, are You.

WSM would remove the purity of a dream. What once was a direct experience would suddenly become somehow tainted. An intrusion, a violation almost. A clash of two me-s that I had hoped would never meet. Whatever my dreams may be about, WSM has no place being there, and certainly no business interfering with them. I want them to run full course without him ever having had anything to do with them.

Dreams aren't for controlling or manipulating, they're for observing and experiencing. WSM gets heaps of other opportunities to have its say. Dreaming is a time for the subconscious to fly its freak flag, to have its say about what's going on. And that's a time for WSM to shut the hell up quite frankly.

That can be very true, especially if you cling to the idea that your waking-life self is a different person from your dreaming self. One of the traps of LD'ing, I've found, is allowing your waking-life personas (ego) to command or disrupt a dream; to bring the "You" you artificially created in waking-life into a dream would indeed disrupt the purity of the dream. But, with practice, you can learn to leave those personas behind (abandoning ego) and witness the purity you describe above in a singular and very memorable manner.

Have I ever attempted lucid dreaming? No, and doubt I ever will. It flies in the face of everything I find intriguing and desirable about sleep and dreaming to begin with.

Well, then, maybe LD'ing is not for you... but I have a feeling that, should you actually experience LD'ing, you might find opportunities to enhance and appreciate that "sweet surrender" that are not available in NLD's or waking-life themselves.

Originally Posted by dd22qq

the whole point of sleep and dreaming involves an escape from that very version of me.

I don't think anyone here that works hard to have LDs will agree with it. It's more about going to a place where we can be free and fly and be creative and learn about the mind's nature.

Originally Posted by dd22qq

the most intriguing aspect of sleeping and dreaming is the exploration of the subconscious. A shift in modes of reality, the entering of another realm if you like.

So, now you agree with me?

Originally Posted by dd22qq

And in order for that to happen most effectively involves the complete abandonment of WSM. He's only going to interfere with the process. The less of a hold WSM has, the better.

So how can you 'explore' anything if you're not even aware of the reality you're in? If this 'WSM' is interfering it happens because he doesn't know enough about LDs. When you become lucid and know the basics about dream control you know there is nothing that can hold you back since you got your imagination.

Originally Posted by dd22qq

And while asleep, dreaming me is a me I'm more interested in exploring than WSM.

You're assuming yourself is not the 'WSM'. If the person writing this was your 'WSM' there is no point on complaining if you wanna explore the dream just make your mind.

Originally Posted by dd22qq

WSM would remove the purity of a dream.

Did you consider taking a shower?

Originally Posted by dd22qq

Dreams aren't for controlling or manipulating, they're for observing and experiencing.

Originally Posted by dd22qq

Have I ever attempted lucid dreaming? No, and doubt I ever will. It flies in the face of everything I find intriguing and desirable about sleep and dreaming to begin with.

I recommend you just to read some dream journal entries so you can see what it is like LDing. You're stating many things and it seems like it's more about what you feel than about what you know, maybe you can realize that: you can live and feel anything you want if you are Lucid.
Good Luck

In my first LD a man was chasing me, I realized I was dreaming and I shoot him with my finger and he became frozen. It was a powerful experience and I'm glad I was there aware of anything, the only thing sad about it is that the dream didn't last longer. I tried to rub my hands and scream for a more vivid dream but it was too late.

dd22qq, I would understand if you don't want to lucid dream for some religious reasons. Or some personal reason. However, I assure you that it is nothing to be afraid of. But, suit yourself... It is your dream after all. Wither the WSM likes it's or not. However, if you change your mind, there are people here that can help you as much as we can.

As others have mentioned lucid dreaming and trying to control the dream, or reproduce waking life behaviour, are not the same thing. In addition, there is a strong argument to be made that the dreams are losing in meaning by the confusion caused by the lack of awareness of ordinary dreaming. Think of dreams that you have wasted hours trying to arrange your luggage or something of the like; being frustrated cause thinks are not where they are supposed to be. This is not a more enriching experience, it is a profound lack of awareness of your real state and the fluidity of the dream world.

Having said that, I do agree that trying to exert too much control over the dream, especially bringing in shallow desires, does disconnect you from your natural subconscious dream; but then again most of the times people are not lucid dreaming and most importantly your subconscious will probably surprise you anyway

Do you have any phobia to dreaming in general? Or just lucid dreaming? I, myself use lucid dreams to do more than just the tasks of the months or to have an epic action sequence, I try to solve problems that my subconscious throws at me. Being aware in a dream will give you that access to some of the best puzzles and their solutions out there. However, being negative about a dream subject will not help you tame the beast that is WSM. (IMO)

TL;DR: It’s an invaluable tool for fun, fantasy-fulfillment, self-expression, self-improvement, and learning. It can also help you draw inspiration and instill hope (if you have a tough waking life). Don’t knock it till you try it.

~ * ~

I have always been fascinated by dreams. To me, lucid dreaming is all about being more present while it serves as an outlet for self-expression and self-improvement. As a creative, it would be typical of me to manipulate my dreams every chance I get, but I don't. Once you get to a point where you become confident in your ability to have lucid dreams, you'll grow wise and patient. This is true for any discipline. It becomes less about getting things done before you wake up and more about taking in the experience and getting the most out of it.

Lucid dreaming is also an incredible medium for us to draw inspiration and instill hope in a waking life that is otherwise full of dread. The following point might be biased because of my personal experiences, but It can help you reconnect with deceased loved ones and pets in a more profound way than regular dreams. You’ll yearn for a means to reconnect with loved ones when you lose a loved one whether it’s for companionship or to seek closure.

As people who have followed my journey here would know, I have lost my significant other Kana (i.e. gf, partner, lover, soulmate, twin flame etc.) to the game called life. Lucid dreaming is the only way I can consciously make new fulfilling and meaningful memories with her. Sure, I have non-lucids of her all the time, but in those, I am usually unaware she is no longer with me. We always tend to take our loved ones for granted when we don't realize one day they won't be around.

Let me give you an example, just last week I was glum in a non-lucid dream because my dear Kana didn't share the last mini-donut I was saving for dessert. I gave her the silent treatment the whole of the dream. It was so trivial! She was sweetly encouraging me to cheer up, but I wouldn't let it go in the dream. I was taking her presence and love for granted. Sure, it seems like a cute young couple's fight of sorts, but I cried lots after I woke up. I could have enjoyed my time with her instead of being glum over something so trivial. So, being lucid and spending time with her whether it's just watching a movie, playing games, shopping, eating at a restaurant etc. It's fulfilling and helps me survive in this intertwined life that I am trying to salvage the best I can without her present physically.

So, for me lucid dreaming is a matter of life and death. It's no longer just a medium for fun, self-expression, fantasy fulfillment, or learning as I thought before I lost Kana. I can say with total certainty without it I would have gone crazy and went to the suicide route. It can be an invaluable tool for the bereaved to draw strength to live on. The same applies to those with disabilities. For a while, I have been paralyzed with the possibility of never being able to walk again. I was told I would have to prepare for a life of limited mobility. Spoiler, I suffered a lot of damage from the seizure triggered by Kana’s passing. I had absolutely no non-lucids where I could walk for the whole year. It was as if subconsciously I was preparing for a life of disability. It was exhilarating to be able to walk freely in dreams assuring myself that at least I can walk even if I can’t in waking. Thankfully, I recovered and can walk again now. I can't run, but I can walk without support. However, there are those less fortunate than me who don't recover or born with disabilities. I could only imagine their delight if they get to walk again consciously after years of being bedridden or stuck on a wheelchair.

Is it wrong to influence and guide dreams? It depends on you and your views. If we go by that logic dreams should be left untouched, the same should apply for our waking imagination. Personally, I respect entities in my dreams as I would in waking even when I am fully lucid. That's who I am. Only times I would go on a killing spree would be on a VR-esque game lucid dreams where everyone involved are "players" behind a sort of "avatar" creating a detachment from their "body". Sure, it can be a fragment of my own psyche and my imagination, but I just don't want to hurt anyone. That's just me.

A lot of times what people think of as manipulation is just influence. You don't have 100% control of the dream space no matter the level of lucidity. You are a co-creator of your dreamscape. It's easy for people to develop a god-complex in lucid dreams, especially when you get good at it. But I feel it's always best for us to be humble and appreciate our level of conscious advancement. Since thoughts translate to manifestation at a really fast pace, it's easy to let ego take over if you are not a humble person. It can be a struggle for even the humblest to keep themselves in check. I should know, I have ruled over a self-made civilization of gods (celestials) as their goddess (celestial queen). I was a kind and merciful celestial queen, but a goddess nonetheless and I am one of those high in the humble spectrum. We were at odds with another faction of celestials and their queen. I’ll probably write it in my journal if anyone is interested. Personally, if it will help me express and improve myself without the limitations of waking life, I don't mind influencing dreams. I just don't like abusing my power of influence. I came pretty close to abusing my powers in that celestial lucid dream. I had to handicap myself to make it fair and more rewarding experience.

Nowadays, I usually just set the tone of my lucid dreams if I am in the mood for more than settling where I ended up in and let the dream unfold. I rarely micromanage. This is an extension of how I am in my waking life.

Originally Posted by lucidbunnie

I came pretty close to abusing my powers in that celestial lucid dream. I had to handicap myself to make it fair and more rewarding experience.

Are you sure, you are really lucid in these dreams?
What abusing?
What power?
What celestials?

Sorry, but in dreams everything is an illusion, not real, period!
Here a short example: I was getting lucid in my dream, but group of DC's was trying to convince me, that I'm not dreaming, but just getting crazy, so I kill them all. From the high level of adrenaline, the scene changed a little, they were alive again, but this time they were friendly and we talked about lucidity to the end of the dream.

Originally Posted by GordanFreeman

Are you sure, you are really lucid in these dreams?
What abusing?
What power?
What celestials?

Sorry, but in dreams everything is an illusion, not real, period!
Here a short example: I was getting lucid in my dream, but group of DC's was trying to convince me, that I'm not dreaming, but just getting crazy, so I kill them all. From the high level of adrenaline, the scene changed a little, they were alive again, but this time they were friendly and we talked about lucidity to the end of the dream.

Well, I'm not going to pretend to be all-knowing and say whether dreams are just figment of our imagination or something deeper. You are right, it's just illusions. However, might you be willing to consider them autonomous illusions under the influnce of other factors like your subconsciousness etc. and not 100% your conscious imagination? I consider these experience as dreams, lucid ones, whatever they are more than what is the generally accepted definition of dream is up to each one of us. So, this is how I look at it...

(Since our level of influience is limited in waking compared to lucid dreaming this example might not translate well, but I'll give it a try.)

Suppose you are playing an action adventure game. Influence is choosing the difficulty level, choosing the location, choosing a character class, choosing skills, choosing your kit, using your resources wisely and plan out how you proceed etc. Maybe we can push it even further without ruining the experience. Like, harvesting materials to build stronger weapons? Something like that. We can take advantage of faulty AI in a boss fight and do it over and over to our advantage and get further. However, to me abusing my powers would be using cheat codes, trainer programs, or aimbots. These take away the experience of the game right? That's what I mean by abusing power vs just influencing.

In that dream, I chose the dream scenario i.e. civilizations of celestials with two factions. I then set out to resolve the conflict of the world. You can say I choose the "Celestial Queen" class if we look at itt like a game. Suppose two players can cloose to be queen of each faction, suppose I just happen to be my team's defacto leader based on discord chats and choose to lead a faction. Rest of the dream I go through it based on the rules of the dream and ablities that were defined before the start of that dream. Purpose of the dream was for me to experience goldy ablities, have some fast-paced exciting godly fights, learn to resolve conflicts, and bring everyone together. It was for fun and something to build experience sustaining a presistent dream world. Here, if I had overrode dream rules with my dream control everytime things didn't go my way. I'd say It's akin to using cheat codes etc. I hope my example of likening it to games didn't cause more confusion. ^^'

Originally Posted by lucidbunnie

Well, I'm not going to pretend to be all-knowing and say whether dreams are just figment of our imagination or something deeper. You are right, it's just illusions. However, might you be willing to consider them autonomous illusions under the influence of other factors like your subconsciousness etc. and not 100% your conscious imagination?

Trust me, everything you see there is an illusion, including all senses. In dreams, there is not such thing conscious imagination. From my research, there is one big system(that is much more powerful than any super computer on earth), that control your dreams - your unconscious mind. Some will argue, but we are not using our brain at full capacity, we can access only small portion of our brain(mind).

Our unconscious mind is working with the raw input data coming from our various body receptors(eyes, nose, ears, touch), engaging our all senses, including our emotions through the levels of hormones. Of course it need some time to process all the information, approximately 7 days or more. I call it "time lag", of course sometime is working with priorities, an example: if you have strong feelings or intense thinking just before bed, you can dream about them the same night.

I call our unconscious mind "the matrix" - world engine. Because all the time it run various of simulation(dreams) of certain situations, based on processed input data. The simulations ain't perfect and there are all sort of glitches, but like every computer out there, it posses all kinds of protections to mask the glitches. And from there we(lucid dreamers) can try to learn to recognize these glitches(dream signs) to gain control of the system aka lucid dreaming. These glitches appear in first place, because our unconscious mind lack conscious patterns of the living world as we do and can't perfectly recreate the outside world.

When in lucid dream, every object you create, every scene you made up, every person you imagine, appear thanks to the "Matrix" engine. So you just gain control of that system to run various simulations, the greater your control is, the greater the details are. So instead of creating a game, it's more like of creating a simulation. I for example, love to recreate all sort of simulations for various scenarious. My most favorite is the "infinity house". Of course the unconscious has other functions as well, like for example: controlling the various processes of your biological body, that sustain us alive.

Your subconscious(DG, higher self) also have access to the "Matrix", maybe even full* control, so at times he can try to give you advices through dreams, but because it also lack conscious patterns, they are not very clear and are hard to understand. Our sub doesn't feel the "time" like us and it's more pure because it lack an EGO, so things like death and life are trivial matters to him. By becoming one with his subconscious and unconscious mind, an individual can develop all kinds of abilities. Of course this is only the tip of the iceberg. Momo, you must know better than anyone here in what I believe.

There are some more stuff that I can mention, but I'm sure many will dislike it, about "soul drive", energy, DNA memories.




On side note:

Suppose you are playing an action adventure game.
cheet codes, trainer programs, or aimbots.

Ahh it so amusing, hearing these words for the first time in my life from a girl, a female Gamer huh. Damn, if we had one of these females back in my LAN Party days, it would have been hilarious

Perhaps it could be mentally exhausting if someone was constantly lucid dreaming but i doubt thats the case for most. Many researchers agree there's no established induction method that works 100% of the time. Anyway its appealing cause its uncharted territory and there's no harm in peaking behind the curtain every once in a while.

Originally Posted by GordanFreeman

Sorry, but in dreams everything is an illusion, not real, period!

That's rather dogmatic. And unprovable too.

The OP has only 1 post and hasn't returned to respond to any of the points people have made. I don't think they were looking for actual discussion, more like poking a hornet's nest with a stick and standing back to watch the result.

That was the point of my first post. I already had my suspicions because of the wording of the post. *Shrugs*

Originally Posted by Voldmer

That's rather dogmatic. And unprovable too.

Sorry, but I'm not dogmatic, I'm just sharing my own research here. The prove I got, is more than enough for me. Here, I posted this not long ago:

Spoiler for old dream:

I wake up in living room and immediately gained awarness.(I live in apartment) Everything around was darkish, the lamps doesn't glow enough and the walls were covered in some dark substance like tentacles(or veins), they were like alive, they had a heartbeat(pulsating). I went in the corridor, everything was covered in that stuff, the lamps were flickering. I thought to get out from front door, but behind the door there was a strange noise, so I looked through the spyhole. On the other side of the door there was a black fat monster with big mouth and many teeths, which from time to time was burping with sulphur smell. So I went to my room, the walls were covered also, I thought that I can fly out of windows,but they were covered also, from what I saw through them all the city were covered in that shit. The sun was there, but was a full sun eclipse. In that moment the entire floor started to cover with dark spiders and snakes stuff. I jump on top of my bed. I thought that I can't escape from that, so I just sit on the bed, the dark things were crawling towards me in that moment the lamps gone all dark.

Suddenly a person appeared on the bed beside me, he was carrying a little flashlight. He looked at me and say "What are you doing, why are you so afraid, everything in here is an illusion. Everything here is part of yourself, look carefully now". He close his eyes and the next moment his little flashlight lit like a big projector. I asked him how did you do it. He said "You must concentrate, use your inner light", "ok I will give it a try". I closed my eyes and focused on light, the next moment the room exploded in very bright light, all blackness started to burn and disapeared. Outside was a bright day, all the darkness was gone "See you can do it, if you just try and remember this is your inner world, your will is everything". I turned towards him and said "perhaps, you are Me". He smiled and vanish. In that moment the dream fall apart and I woke up in my bed.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

The OP has only 1 post and hasn't returned to respond to any of the points people have made. I don't think they were looking for actual discussion, more like poking a hornet's nest with a stick and standing back to watch the result.

I'm not gonna bite,.... too much.

"An intrusion, a violation almost. A clash of two me-s that I had hoped would never meet"

But they do meet every time you dream. When your lucid, your just aware of it.

Originally Posted by GordanFreeman

Sorry, but I'm not dogmatic, I'm just sharing my own research here. The prove I got, is more than enough for me. Here, I posted this not long ago:

Spoiler for old dream:

I wake up in living room and immediately gained awarness.(I live in apartment) Everything around was darkish, the lamps doesn't glow enough and the walls were covered in some dark substance like tentacles(or veins), they were like alive, they had a heartbeat(pulsating). I went in the corridor, everything was covered in that stuff, the lamps were flickering. I thought to get out from front door, but behind the door there was a strange noise, so I looked through the spyhole. On the other side of the door there was a black fat monster with big mouth and many teeths, which from time to time was burping with sulphur smell. So I went to my room, the walls were covered also, I thought that I can fly out of windows,but they were covered also, from what I saw through them all the city were covered in that shit. The sun was there, but was a full sun eclipse. In that moment the entire floor started to cover with dark spiders and snakes stuff. I jump on top of my bed. I thought that I can't escape from that, so I just sit on the bed, the dark things were crawling towards me in that moment the lamps gone all dark.

Suddenly a person appeared on the bed beside me, he was carrying a little flashlight. He looked at me and say "What are you doing, why are you so afraid, everything in here is an illusion. Everything here is part of yourself, look carefully now". He close his eyes and the next moment his little flashlight lit like a big projector. I asked him how did you do it. He said "You must concentrate, use your inner light", "ok I will give it a try". I closed my eyes and focused on light, the next moment the room exploded in very bright light, all blackness started to burn and disapeared. Outside was a bright day, all the darkness was gone "See you can do it, if you just try and remember this is your inner world, your will is everything". I turned towards him and said "perhaps, you are Me". He smiled and vanish. In that moment the dream fall apart and I woke up in my bed.

That was quite a dream, and with a nice lesson at the end as well! But what that dream did prove was that you can change the dream using your will. You can also change the physical world using your will. Just as this second fact does not prove that the physical world is an illusion, the first fact does not prove that the dream world is an illusion.

By the way, in vedantic traditions (e.g. in yoga) the physical world is considered an illusion.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

I don't think they were looking for actual discussion, more like poking a hornet's nest with a stick and standing back to watch the result.

No hornet's nests, no sticks. Reading every post, many of which seem intelligent and well-considered. And as much as lucid dreaming mightn't be something I'm looking at getting into right now, it's certainly interesting to hear people's thoughts and experiences, which I guess was the reason for posting in the first place.

Ok, you seem sincere. Usually if somebody starts a discussion they stick around and take part in it though. It seems a little suspicious if they just throw down a gauntlet and then sit back and read, especially if what they said is negative toward what we all believe in. You might not have done it with malicious intent, but it still seems like you basically wanted to stir us up and see what we'd say - not really like you wanted a discussion. Especially to those of us who posted several times, it starts to feel like we were used or misled.

" No hornet's nests, no sticks. Reading every post, many of which seem intelligent and well-considered. And as much as lucid dreaming mightn't be something I'm looking at getting into right now, it's certainly interesting to hear people's thoughts and experiences, which I guess was the reason for posting in the first place."

I think you honestly are dipping your toes into this subject without much idea of how it works. Not meant to be negative, just honest. A normal dream can be bizarre and wonderfully deep and meaningful as your imagination can take it. A lucid dream can be as bizarre and wonderfully deep and meaningful as your imagination can take it. Only it's enhanced with more verbal details more interaction within yourself, and more likely to have meaningful repressed emotions and thoughts show up from deep within you. (I was shown my spirit animal in a lucid dream)

The right side of your brain provides visual, spatial, emotional basically dreams that tend to have meaning. The left hemisphere of the brain is involved primarily in the encoding and recall of verbal, temporal sequential, and language related memories during dreams. You can have one or both active during dreams despite being lucid or not. When one becomes lucid it tends to be that the left hemisphere is more in unison with the other leading to very meaningful dream with a lot of recall. They don't compete as you put it, what happens is the meaningful dream is remembered more and become more of a real life memory and less forgotten. Normal dreams are the tainted ones, as they don't get recorded in the left hemisphere as real vivid lifelike memory's.

The reason it's so hard to write down dreams is because REM sleep is driven by the right side of your brain. So you are loosing out on the meaningful dreams you claim to seek. I'd argue to give it a try. Being lucid does not mean a meaningful remembered experience is tainted, it actually means it's more remembered and more meaningful.

If you ever experience one you will know what we mean.

Originally Posted by Voldmer

But what that dream did prove was that you can change the dream using your will. You can also change the physical world using your will. Just as this second fact does not prove that the physical world is an illusion, the first fact does not prove that the dream world is an illusion.

I really want to see how you change Day into Night with your "Will", I will be there with popcorns.