Thread: I need an army of lucid dreamers...

I have been thinking how to make some kind of a private space. And I’m sorry to say that under these circumstances, I don’t think it can be done.

There is no way to make a single thread visible to only certain people (like registered members), or to password protect it. It would have to be the whole “General Lucid Dreaming” forum. But I’m sure you will all agree that would not be a right thing to do.


Guys, I understand your concerns. We had our share of newbie “researchers” that come to pick our brains but they don’t offer anything in return. All we ask from them in return is to post results from the study on the forum, so all our members can benefit. And to mention Dreamviews as a resource, which I think it’s only fair to you all. But most of those posts you guys don’t even get to see, because they are filtered out after unsuccessful requests for cooperation.

Well, Daniel Love joined in 2014 and he promoted DreamViews in his book “Are you Dreaming?” and placed a link to DreamViews on his Lucid Dreaming Day website. All without being asked to and without receiving any favors from us.

I personally trust that this project will be exciting. Maybe we even help with some breakthrough, or with wider acceptance of LDs and dreams in general. Isn’t that what we all want, why we are all here? Isn’t that why we post our experiences and ask questions? To learn, to teach, to get better at this wonderful thing called lucid dreaming.

Signing up only guarantees information when it becomes ready. After that we can decide if we want to participate, or not. I don’t see any harm in waiting few weeks to receive the info.

I dunno, it’s like Christmas. You know you will have presents under the tree. But do you really wanna know what they gonna be?

Originally Posted by gab

Guys, I understand your concerns. We had our share of newbie “researchers” that come to pick our brains but they don’t offer anything in return. All we ask from them in return is to post results from the study on the forum, so all our members can benefit. And to mention Dreamviews as a resource, which I think it’s only fair to you all. But most of those posts you guys don’t even get to see, because they are filtered out after unsuccessful requests for cooperation.

Well, Daniel Love joined in 2014 and he promoted DreamViews in his book “Are you Dreaming?” and placed a link to DreamViews on his Lucid Dreaming Day website. All without being asked to and without receiving any favors from us.

I personally trust that this project will be exciting. Maybe we even help with some breakthrough, or with wider acceptance of LDs and dreams in general. Isn’t that what we all want, why we are all here? Isn’t that why we post our experiences and ask questions? To learn, to teach, to get better at this wonderful thing called lucid dreaming.

Signing up only guarantees information when it becomes ready. After that we can decide if we want to participate, or not. I don’t see any harm in waiting few weeks to receive the info.

I dunno, it’s like Christmas. You know you will have presents under the tree. But do you really wanna know what they gonna be?

That's all well and good, Gab, and I do appreciate (even if I do not generally agree with) Mr Love's responses above... but it would still be nice to know for what war Mr. Love needs an army before I enlist.

There is a reason I am making this fuss, other than just to make a fuss. With no offense whatsoever to Mr. Love, who I am surely not placing in this category: Many very high profile gurus in the LD'ing community seem to lean more toward converting their status into personal profits rather than toward furthering the cause of lucid dreaming, and in the process are capitalizing directly on the goodwill and soft adoration of their fans to generate these profits... often leaving nothing to their generous supporters but empty pocketbooks and disappointment. I still think it would be nice if the soldiers enlisting in Mr. Love's army could at least be permitted a general idea of the nature of the battles they will be fighting before taking up arms (sorry, Mr. Love, you did pick the analogy! ). Requesting personal information (albeit info as innocuous as an email) and then promising to provide information in trade when it's ready sometime in the future really ought to be a warning signal to more people than just me.

And yes, if opening those presents on Christmas resulted in disappointment, some sort of loss, or commitment to a program that I would never have signed up for in the first place, I would definitely want to know what was in them ahead of time. Sometimes the wrapping is far more impressive than the gift.

Also, I hope that, since I've actively been with DV for 5 years and made what I assume are real contributions to it, you would give me the same leeway in presenting a similar bargain were I to come up with a project that required an army of uninformed soldiers... but in truth I would never do so. To me, holding back information that you already have in some form just to build a mailing list ahead of the project's initiation seems, well, not quite right... I would have the information ready before I asked people to join my army.

Sorry again for my skepticism, Gab; I'll stop now. One or two skeptical (or cynical) posts is plenty in this context; more is simply disrespectful. I do honestly wish you luck, Mr. Love, and hope that your project is a wonderful one that truly rewards your soldiers with a war of minimal casualties and a commensurate share of the dreaming spoils.

Ah Sageous, you're going to make me write a long rambling response again - you and I are cut from the same cloth and I've been in your position in forums many times in the past. I think we'd both enjoy a drink and horribly convoluted discussion about the universe - the kind that would make others want to bury themselves alive!

I'll start with the simple stuff, as for capitalizing on lucid dreaming - I certainly know that some of the self appointed "gurus" out there are quite willing to do or say anything to bump up their bank balance and make it all a bit of an ego trip for themselves. The reason I decided to put myself "out-there" in the first place was, to be frank, because it bothered me just as deeply as it does you. I wanted to get up in their faces and stop them from ruining a subject that I've loved as long as I can remember. I'd name names, but that would only stir things up - I'd rather fight them with quality and honesty. I think in the long run this is the approach which wins. I also never want to become a "guru", the thought bothers me deeply. I'm a human being like anyone else. We're all born with no idea why we're here, and we die probably with more questions than answers. The best I can offer is my passion and dedication to a subject, which hopefully gives me a little more insight than a layman - and ideally it is useful to others.

That said, I barely scrape by making a living as a writer and researcher. I'm not pushing for a sympathy vote at all, I'm just being honest. When I say lucid dreaming is my passion I mean it - I've adopted a very minimalistic lifestyle just so that I can survive doing what I love doing. I'd genuinely make more money flipping burgers. It's my choice though, and I love it and wouldn't change it for the world.

My sole aim in life is to leave something behind that has left the world somewhat wiser and hopefully a little improved. I don't care for money or possessions - if I won the lottery, I'd use it to invest in projects and my life would barely change (other than the huge relief of not having to be concerned about if I'll cover the next months rent).

With all that said, there is only so much you can achieve if you're focusing on survival. So of course my project is going to require funding to get off the ground. I'm not asking anyone here to agree to that, what I'm asking for is people to listen to what I'm going to offer, make their own minds up, and then if they like it either get on-board with it, or help spread the word. The latter is the most important actually.

I am going to be as blunt with you as you are with me, I think you're being a little too sensitive about me requesting an e-mail in order to let people know when something is launched. Most of us give our e-mails pretty readily - I expect my supermarket has mine. We basically have to do it for anything we wish to be involved with. There are strong anti-spam regulations and one of which requires me to share my home address with everyone who registers. So, I'm not asking for people to give me more than I'm willing to give in return. It's just the easiest means to share information directly. I trust that people won't abuse the information I share with them, and I'll certainly not abuse theirs.

As I've said I'm more than willing for feedback on the project and I'll drop into chat next week (if anyone is interested) so I can be more forthright about it all.

What I will say, is in it's simplest form going to be an ongoing resource and an ecosystem for lucid dreamers and those interested in our universe. It is also a means for me to create a self-fuelling system that will allow me to continue to invest time, energy and resources into expanding the subject. I have no intention of profiting, I do however need to survive in order to continue to invest all my time into doing this. I think that's fair and what is to be expected. With that in mind, the proof will be in the pudding - as the project itself will be launched as a crowd-funded campaign. So people can very easily decide if it's something they want in the world. So, this is why I am limited by time-scales and the need for a passionate group of lucid dreamers to help drive interest (if they like it) in the project.

If we really want lucid dreaming to develop, then it is important to have those who dedicate their lives to improving the subject - not those who abuse the subject to improve their lives.

I can understand that you fear I am the latter - but take a look at my history: I've released a book on the subject which I feel gives a balanced and honest introduction and I've instigated a worldwide celebration of lucid dreaming - which is funded out of my own pocket. But more importantly I have avoided advertising, selling endless junk e-books, useless on-line courses and I rarely if ever run workshops. I've also turned down numerous paying events that I felt were abusing the subject - why? Because I feel this is just people cashing in with regurgitated nonsense. I refuse to abuse my standards for profit. It would be SO easy to do, and I've had plenty of time in which I could have done this. But, I hate that kind of behaviour and I dearly wish to do my part to put and end to it and shame those who are involved in it.

Lucid dreaming deserves better. I'm only one person but I'll do what I can to make it so. I wholeheartedly support your approach in making me stand my ground - continue to do this, too many people in this field are in it because it can be a cash-cow and are rarely pulled up on it. I'm not offended that you feared that I was one of them (okay, I was a little, but mostly because I've spent so long being the one criticising them myself).

Hopefully you'll realise in this case that we're both on the same side and we both want to put an end to that nonsense once and for all.