Thread: [WBTB] If I have a completely stable sleep schedule,

Stable sleep schedules are best, yes. And while you can target any REM period, later ones tend to be longer, with less gaps between them and, therefore, better. In terms of potential lucidity and dream control, they're probably equal though. I imagine your body would get used to it and it'll be fine.

If by "get used to" the WBTB, you mean the effects will wear off, that is unlikely. If by "get used to," you mean your body and brain will come to understand that you are planning to be lucid in your dreams, then sure I don't see why not. Your dream content may even come to reflect this. If coupled with MILD the technique will probably become more and more powerful over time.

Keep in mind, just because you do a WBTB every night (which is fine) you don't need to make a "hard push" for lucidity every night. With your earlier success rate, it will probably be unnecessary, and may actually just cause stress. Your balance will return. I would pick a few days (depending on your schedule) where you can "go all out," and then on the other days just practice some easier techniques that don't require much effort.

I agree with splodey that there probably is not much difference between the two REM cycles, though I had more success with later cycles starting out. After a while it doesn't matter much.

I also feel like the later REM cycles are much easier to become lucid in. Though they are also shorter, which is a real trade-off. But that is true for general REM cycles and not just WBTB. So while you have more chance to become lucid later in you sleep, that doesn't have to mean that you should do WBTB in that time as well. It will give you the best odds for becoming lucid, but maybe that's just because you had better odds at that time to begin with. With or without the WBTB.

I guess it would be very hard to see what works best unless you are experienced and able to gather data over a long period of time, and then compare that result to nights without WBTB. Though that would still only give you your personal results.

I am also fiddling with this, I'll look forward to others with a lot of WBTB experience giving their opinion.

Thanks for the good answers.

The reason I choose the third period is so I can leave the rest to DEILDs.

Originally Posted by MrPriority

Though they are also shorter

But aren't they supposed to get longer over time?

I'm not sure about the specifics here, we should get someone in on this who knows the scientific side of things.

But as far as my personal experience goes. When I properly train my recall I can usually wake up after almost every dream (which is 7-9 times a night with a 8-9 hour sleep). What I always see in my dream progressing through the night is the same line. It starts of with a couple hours of sleep and maybe half an hour of dreams. Then I get my longest dreams. And finally when it's maybe an hour before waking up the dream can sometimes be only 10-20 minutes.

Therefor I always thought that REM becomes longer in comaprison to NREM. That the total sleep cycle becomes shorter but the ratio REM to NREM increases. But again, this might just be my own mistake, now that I think about it. Either way, there is no denying for me that my dreams become shorter, the closer I am to morning.

REM cycles typically get longer as the night continues, which is why many find it easier to become lucid in them (more opportunities to notice you're dreaming, as well as rising levels of awareness due to one's natural sleep cycle coming to an end). It's difficult to know how any one person's individual REM cycles work, and the above is only a rough sketch based on the "majority" of dreamers. The only way to know for sure is to have a sleep study done, or use something like a sleep coach, which apparently are unavailable on the market as of now

The reason I choose the third period is so I can leave the rest to DEILDs.

That's actually a pretty good strategy. I've found that Michael Raduga's autosuggestion to induce and notice natural awakenings works really well in the second half of the night. You might check out his book, "The Phase," as it is essentially a guide to DEILD. In short, the instructions are something like:

1. Get out of bed.
2. Urinate.
3. Drink some water.
4. Return to bed.
5. Tell yourself you are going to awaken much more often than normal, and that you will notice these natural awakenings.

He's pretty anal about people doing everything exactly as he says, but the above should be good enough to see some effects. This should be done on a WBTB.