WBTB Works once, never again?

**ToukieToucan** · 04-26-2015 03:41 PM

So I've done WBTB and the first time was a succes, the 2nd to 6th times were all failures, other people ive spoken had the same issue. Any tips to improve WBTB?

**Zoth** · 04-26-2015 05:21 PM

WBTB is all about experimentation: assuming you're keeping a regular sleep schedule, and stay clear of possible factors that can negatively impact your sleep (like eating too much before bed), your optimal WBTB time should be somewhat constant. The other aspect of it is it's duration, and again it's something you have to gauge by yourself by finding the line between enough drowsiness and wakefulness.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by your WBTB is failing: a WBTB is not directly related to lucid dreaming induction, so it cannot fail (unless you don't wake up/ cannot fall back asleep). Are you referring to not being able to WILD?

**ToukieToucan** · 04-26-2015 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Zoth

WBTB is all about experimentation: assuming you're keeping a regular sleep schedule, and stay clear of possible factors that can negatively impact your sleep (like eating too much before bed), your optimal WBTB time should be somewhat constant. The other aspect of it is it's duration, and again it's something you have to gauge by yourself by finding the line between enough drowsiness and wakefulness.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by your WBTB is failing: a WBTB is not directly related to lucid dreaming induction, so it cannot fail (unless you don't wake up/ cannot fall back asleep). Are you referring to not being able to WILD?

First time I tried it was 3 hours after my normal time, which was the most succesful - nearly directly I experienced hypnagogic state.
The other times I went to sleep at a normal time and tried MILD as well but no success.

**FryingMan** · 04-28-2015 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by ToukieToucan

First time I tried it was 3 hours after my normal time, which was the most succesful - nearly directly I experienced hypnagogic state.
The other times I went to sleep at a normal time and tried MILD as well but no success.

You need to adjust your time-scale for experimentation. Learning about how you sleep and dream can take months and years of steady experiments to find what works best for you. A few attempts is just not enough.

**ToukieToucan** · 04-28-2015 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by FryingMan

You need to adjust your time-scale for experimentation. Learning about how you sleep and dream can take months and years of steady experiments to find what works best for you. A few attempts is just not enough.

What is/are the best tips for timing WBTB perfectly?

**FryingMan** · 04-28-2015 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by ToukieToucan

What is/are the best tips for timing WBTB perfectly?

Try, try again, and keep extensive/detailed records, especially: time after bedtime, how long spent awake, what activities you did while up, and about how long it took to fall asleep again.

General guideline: about 5 hours of sleep is considered generally "optimal" (edit: as an "earliest WBTB start time") because REM is never very far away in subsequent sleep cycles.

**Rothgar** · 04-26-2015 06:20 PM

WBTB wakes you up enough that your awareness is heightened when you next dream. But that is basically it...it improves your odds of noticing dream signs...but you have to have some skill developed to notice dream signs (if you are talking DILD).

**robertcox88** · 04-28-2015 06:06 AM

Didn't have this issue... It's only failed to give me lucid dreams once out of 7 or 8 times... but during that time I still had extremely vivid dreams. I would say increase your WBTB time though and stay up for longer. It hasn't not resulted in a Lucid for me if I stay up for an hour.