Thread: why I will never be able to lucid dream~

Originally Posted by LemonPartiez

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this but have you thought to try a different induction method? i.e. WILD

I tried that around two weeks ago. I hadn't had my LD experience by that point though and people told me there isn't a point to trying WILD if you haven't LD before. But I suppose now is a good time to try right? It is a huge challenge to take on though. The first time I tried it my fingers were having random spasms of movements that I had no control over and I read that you were supposed to stay perfectly still so that might have effected it. Around the 40 minute mark I decided to focus on the swirls under my eyelids and then.. I woke up some time later. I might try it but the idea of laying down for 30-90 minutes with nothing but my thoughts sounds very dull and boring.

Originally Posted by moocowgoesmoo

I tried that around two weeks ago. I hadn't had my LD experience by that point though and people told me there isn't a point to trying WILD if you haven't LD before. But I suppose now is a good time to try right? It is a huge challenge to take on though. The first time I tried it my fingers were having random spasms of movements that I had no control over and I read that you were supposed to stay perfectly still so that might have effected it. Around the 40 minute mark I decided to focus on the swirls under my eyelids and then.. I woke up some time later. I might try it but the idea of laying down for 30-90 minutes with nothing but my thoughts sounds very dull and boring.

But you have gottena wrong impression of what you are trying to do. Maybe this will help. You do not need to lay perfectly still, any more than you do when you want to sleep. You must not forget the goal involves falling asleep. The hard part is bringing some waking awareness with you into the sleep.
Laying there with your thoughts is actually going to prevent WILD. Try not to think. If you must think, do not let it be about your real life, or anything to complex. Simply put your brain on very low duty. If you are seeing colors or feeling yourself spin/fall just observe it in a half interested way, but do not think about it. Do not stare directly at the colors and so on. To keep your brain active you just repeat a few words over and over, or count with no interest in keeping track (start over the second you falter without THINKING about your place), or visualize one small sequence over and over,,, and so on.
You just relax and try to fall asleep,,, BUT use one of those tricks to keep your awareness slightly intact.
WILD is not the best place to start, but I figure if you want to try, then keep that stuff in mind.

Originally Posted by sivason

But you have gottena wrong impression of what you are trying to do. Maybe this will help. You do not need to lay perfectly still, any more than you do when you want to sleep. You must not forget the goal involves falling asleep. The hard part is bringing some waking awareness with you into the sleep.
Laying there with your thoughts is actually going to prevent WILD. Try not to think. If you must think, do not let it be about your real life, or anything to complex. Simply put your brain on very low duty. If you are seeing colors or feeling yourself spin/fall just observe it in a half interested way, but do not think about it. Do not stare directly at the colors and so on. To keep your brain active you just repeat a few words over and over, or count with no interest in keeping track (start over the second you falter without THINKING about your place), or visualize one small sequence over and over,,, and so on.
You just relax and try to fall asleep,,, BUT use one of those tricks to keep your awareness slightly intact.
WILD is not the best place to start, but I figure if you want to try, then keep that stuff in mind.

Ok.. I understand now I guess. But that is equally as boring if not more boring because now I know I can't think of complex things i.e. analysing how I did in a video game earlier that night. Just relax and try to fall asleep? I honestly have no idea how I am suppose to do that. I will try counting I guess. I assume I am to count in my head right? Are my eyes also to be shut?

Originally Posted by moocowgoesmoo

Ok.. I understand now I guess. But that is equally as boring if not more boring because now I know I can't think of complex things i.e. analysing how I did in a video game earlier that night. Just relax and try to fall asleep? I honestly have no idea how I am suppose to do that. I will try counting I guess. I assume I am to count in my head right? Are my eyes also to be shut?

Yes, count in your head, but do not pay too much attention to the counting, and if you lose count just keep going in whatever sequence. Yes, eyes closed. Keep in mind that your goal is to fall asleep, so do anything you do when falling asleep, just with more awareness. I think it is better to fail to stay aware than to fail to fall asleep because if you fall asleep but lose awareness, you can still DILD later, but if you fail to fall asleep, you can't LD.

This dream clarity tutorial helped me immensely. I had several 20 second to two minute lucids, but I couldn't seem to make them last much longer than that. It soon grew frustrating but I sort of accepted that it would take time to make them longer. I stumbled on to that article and the same night I had a fifteen minute lucid, which is a pretty good improvement!

Now I have a checklist in my lucid dreams to do before I take off on an adventure; Hands, Verbal, Anchor. Read the article to find out what that means, and improve your dream stability tenfold.

~Raven

Originally Posted by JoannaB

I think it is better to fail to stay aware than to fail to fall asleep because if you fall asleep but lose awareness, you can still DILD later, but if you fail to fall asleep, you can't LD.

Very well said! I could not agree more. Respects.

Originally Posted by moocowgoesmoo

Ok.. I understand now I guess. But that is equally as boring if not more boring because now I know I can't think of complex things i.e. analysing how I did in a video game earlier that night. Just relax and try to fall asleep? I honestly have no idea how I am suppose to do that. I will try counting I guess. I assume I am to count in my head right? Are my eyes also to be shut?

Boring is a concept up to the individual. Of course only you can control what you find boring. It is a form of meditation. Some people are excited to explore meditation and some think it sounds very boring. I find that the weird sensations WILD causes are exciting all on their own. WILD is an art that requires patiences and mental discipline. It is not for everyone. Many beginners think it sounds better than DILD, but they do not account for it being something subtle and the amount of patience required to learn it.

thanks everyone. I am just now heading to be. going to put on some soothing instrumental music and try to WILD. While I had read up on most of what that article said raven - the part on verbal commands were very interesting and I'll be sure to try it tonight. Peace ~

Moocowgoesmoo, I think that you can really think of whatever you normally think of when you fall asleep. In my opinion, WILD takes the same amount of time to do as falling asleep (with WBTB), so whatever you normally think about when falling asleep plus an anchor should be just enough awareness, which shouldn't be any more boring than it normally is falling asleep. Though I do agree with Sivason that things like this and meditation are boring depending on the individual.

This is my favorite WILD tutorial:
Mzzkcs Comprehensive WILD Guide - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I do something pretty similar, but what I do incorporated MILD a lot more.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

Moocowgoesmoo, I think that you can really think of whatever you normally think of when you fall asleep. In my opinion, WILD takes the same amount of time to do as falling asleep (with WBTB), so whatever you normally think about when falling asleep plus an anchor should be just enough awareness, which shouldn't be any more boring than it normally is falling asleep. Though I do agree with Sivason that things like this and meditation are boring depending on the individual.

This is my favorite WILD tutorial:
Mzzkcs Comprehensive WILD Guide - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I do something pretty similar, but what I do incorporated MILD a lot more.

Good luck.

The reason I suggest not thinking about your real life or other complex thoughts is that to many people that is the opposite of falling asleep. If you were simply coaching someone on how to fall asleep, then the advice would be the same. Often thinking about your job, homework and so on results in laying in bed unable to sleep. By reducing the amount of thought it becomes easier to fall asleep. Nothing more mysterious or complex than that. The less active thought the quicker sleep will hit, in my experience.
However, being an art and not a science, there are many ways to the same end, and no one of them is going to be right for every person.

I'll check that guide out brandon. I had no lucidity last night :/ I didn't actually remember any of my dreams until much later on in the day when different conversations sparked my memory of some of the dreams I had. I had no urge to test my gravity or look at my hands in those dreams but I read the script just like I did last night.. what has changed? I don't get why I didn't think to RC at all like I did before.

@Sivason.
Makes sense. I normally think very abstract thoughts about books and movies before sleep.

Originally Posted by moocowgoesmoo

I'll check that guide out brandon. I had no lucidity last night :/ I didn't actually remember any of my dreams until much later on in the day when different conversations sparked my memory of some of the dreams I had. I had no urge to test my gravity or look at my hands in those dreams but I read the script just like I did last night.. what has changed? I don't get why I didn't think to RC at all like I did before.

If you don't have enough awareness, you will never think to check.

Congrats! Welcome to the awesome world of lucid dreaming!

Originally Posted by sivason

Do not stare directly at the colors and so on.

This is a challenge for me. I'm having trouble getting to sleep after WBTB (even very brief) and MILD/SSILD or WILD. I find that I tend to react strongly to the visuals (HI/HH/dreamlets), to focus on them, and my reaction keeps me awake. I just discovered that if I move all my focus to the aural (e.g., listening to a fan in the room) and hold it there as long as I can, the visuals are greatly de-emphasized in my attention, and I seem to make more / quicker progress towards sleep. I'm probably too eager to stay conscious through the transition that I'm never making it to the transition point. I may be the counter-example to WBTB: I may only succeed in all the various techniques if I start them while already fairly drowsy (since otherwise it can take *hours* to get back to sleep).

Or maybe I just need more discipline and experimentation in learning how to fall asleep after WBTB. Any suggestions along these lines greatly appreciated!

I noticed just today that I went from not hearing the fan in the room to hearing the fan, and was momentarily confused why I couldn't hear the fan the moment just before. "Oh, I just woke up from a dream" I then realized, and recalled the dream.

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

Moocowgoesmoo, I think that you can really think of whatever you normally think of when you fall asleep. In my opinion, WILD takes the same amount of time to do as falling asleep (with WBTB), so whatever you normally think about when falling asleep plus an anchor should be just enough awareness, which shouldn't be any more boring than it normally is falling asleep. Though I do agree with Sivason that things like this and meditation are boring depending on the individual.

This is my favorite WILD tutorial:
Mzzkcs Comprehensive WILD Guide - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I do something pretty similar, but what I do incorporated MILD a lot more.

Good luck.

Great link, thanks. There is so much great stuff buried in the corners of this site. I am *definitely* the hunter on high alert for the approaching dream, so much so that I'm not going back to sleep! What I need now are concrete techniques to squash this alertness.

Congratulations on the progress My first LD was even shorter than that so don't feel bad, I think it's common. It's definitely about the excitement. I think once you have a few LDs then the excitement won't be as much of a problem -- you will still be excited but you'll be able to control the level of it and stabilize the dream then continue with whatever you were doing, ideally. But no I think you were completely right to try to grab at the ground and it's good that you remembered.

I wanted to add that I do like RCs that have to do with hands. I often use a tweaked version of the finger through the palm one because it helped me get my third(?) lucid. I tried it but instead of my finger going through the palm it still stopped as it normally would but my finger was comically large, like just got hit with a mallet in a bugs bunny cartoon large. Another thing I like is touching my nose with my finger and looking down at it, although that could be kind of awkward in public. If I do that in a dream it causes a weird perspective glitch.

Originally Posted by duke396

Congratulations on the progress My first LD was even shorter than that so don't feel bad, I think it's common. It's definitely about the excitement. I think once you have a few LDs then the excitement won't be as much of a problem -- you will still be excited but you'll be able to control the level of it and stabilize the dream then continue with whatever you were doing, ideally. But no I think you were completely right to try to grab at the ground and it's good that you remembered.

I wanted to add that I do like RCs that have to do with hands. I often use a tweaked version of the finger through the palm one because it helped me get my third(?) lucid. I tried it but instead of my finger going through the palm it still stopped as it normally would but my finger was comically large, like just got hit with a mallet in a bugs bunny cartoon large. Another thing I like is touching my nose with my finger and looking down at it, although that could be kind of awkward in public. If I do that in a dream it causes a weird perspective glitch.

I'm surprised that this thread was pulled out from the grave :S I've actually given up on LD (to an extent) but I was emailed due to your replies so I might as well fill you all in ~ to whom it may concern. I have never again experienced a full blown lucid dream even though I continued to read the script for another week. I don't know why this is? I never stopped with the RCs nor the amount of RCs I would preform each day. This was quite disheartening for me ~ About a month or so later I began to realise (can't remember If I mentioned this earlier in another post) that I was remembering most if not all the dreams I have each night. Most of the time I think this is because, for whatever reason, I wake up when a dream ends and go back to sleep. I usually go to sleep at 1-3 am and wake up at noon the next day. I'd be lying if I didn't say my life wasn't great but what I most look forward to is dreaming (there is a point to this).

As I mentioned in a previous post ~ I seemed to believe that I was content with just viewing the dreams and since the day of that post that is all I have done so its safe to say that it's true. I don't know if it is because I sleep too much or if I'm mentally unstable but It feels like my dreams and reality are blending into one. Now not to the extreme says that you might be thinking but to an extent that my dreams feel like memories - like they actually happened or are happening. Whether it be fighting aliens or falling in love; I have the time of my life and am content with playing a character.

All that being said of course I still wish to LD I have just .. lost my way. After reading your post duke I feel reinvigorated with trying RCs again and especially love the one about watching your finger as you touch your nose.

Thanks for the replies ~ Now I'm off to dream another ..memory

Never give up! Never surrender! If you put the proper effort, you will be rewarded. It takes steady, consistent effort, and introspection: discovering what works for you, what doesn't. Everyone sleeps and dreams differently, you just need to explore all the various ways that other people do it, and tweak it until you find your own personal formula. LDing is a voyage of personal discovery!

Good luck!

A thread that had no comment in two months was not dead, it was hibernating. You said "As I mentioned in a previous post ~ I seemed to believe that I was content with just viewing the dreams and since the day of that post that is all I have done so its safe to say that it's true." I think what may have happened is that by saying that you are content to just watch, you may have set your expectations, and your mind heard and listened. If you want another lucid dream, you got to fix your expectations and intensions to becoming aware of the dream state. Come to think of it, that's probably my problem as well. Also I know what you mean by memories of dreams and waking memories blurring: on at least two occasions I have had to ask my husband whether a memory I had of something that happened while he was there, did it actually happen or was that a dream memory. Memory is memory, and sometimes it plays tricks on us. Best!

everyone can be lucid.... and I am sure of it....also there is no need of any devices or some serious supplements...the most important is to try to practice it as often as you can.....like meditating every day because it raises your awareness do RC's several times every day.....and trying to lucid dream maybe every few days.....also keep a dream journal ...preferably a paper one because it will be better way to track your dreams than electronical way......and write everything in it you dream anything you remember every time you get something.....you have to be really dedicated.....and don't quit so easily just be dedicated......and do it all the time.... I am sure anyone can be lucid .....

I want to assure you all that even if it takes years, you will still have many years to enjoy it. The brain adapts and changes just by focusing on something. It takes months to develop completely new neural pathways, but they do develop. If all you do is read DV threads, talk about LDs and keep a DJ,,, eventually you will get LDs. Add in awareness training and it will come much faster, but it still may be months. That is ok. When you have been LDing two or three years, the months it took to get started will seem well spent.

I didn't even realize the last time you posted was a couple months ago god I never look at post dates. I just jumped right on in with whoever revived it lol, but looks like all that served a purpose afterall. But hey it just takes effort and there's no shame in taking a breather. From my first (mere seconds) and second (pretty awesome) lucid in the same week, it took me somewhere around a year and a half to have another lucid that wasn't just "oh, hey, I know I'm dreaming but I can't make any actual decisions". Don't know why! Not that I was practicing hardcore the entire time but my DJ is littered with crazy "should have been lucid, why wasn't I lucid" and "I knew I was dreaming but there was nothing I could do" moments and now after taking a year-ish long break I'm doing that all over again. Don't give up, enjoy every dream for what it is just keep in mind your ultimate goal of lucidity and make efforts toward it, you will get there just as I will return there.

Edit: sivason posted while I was still writing but he is correct... In fact one of the reasons I came back here when I decided to get back into LD was because it always helped with my recall and liklihood of becoming lucid just to be here on the forums posting or even lurking daily, being around people with the same goals kept my mind in the right spot and reminded me what I was shooting for.

I'm loving this forum more and more with every visit Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply; I really appreciate it. Let me first just that yes, I have had another LD (that makes two total) My second one came for no reason.. by that I mean I don't remember trying to do anything special or anything it just happened. It was just me flying around on a surf board in my own house and I realised I was dreaming. I had learned from my previous mistakes however and I was going to make sure I asserted myself over the dream. When I realised I began to chant "LUCIDITY STABALIZE / CLARITY". Sadly I was more focused on projecting my voice and being confident in the words I was saying rather then concentrating on what I was saying LOL! It turns out I was just saying lucidity clarify and not the other one.. when I tried to think of the word I simply couldn't and the dream slowly collapsed. BUT It is without a doubt a great step forward I think. I didn't make the mistake of getting too over excited like I did last time and instead I immediately tried to assert myself as the leader.

@JoannaB
Interesting read indeed ~ I'm glad you I have someone else on here who is in the same boat as me and I agree 100% with what you said. I will no longer be contempt with watching > I am zee leader of this here ship I tells 'ya !

Once again that's for the great advice everyone and just like duke said: "being here on the forums posting or even lurking daily, being around people with the same goals kept my mind in the right spot and reminded me what I was shooting for."
I'll definitely give dukes method a shot.

Good job on getting another one. I suggest next time that you not try to command anything. Instead just calmly repeat "this is a dream" while calmly looking at what ever is already in the dream. If you can do this for 30 seconds, then attempt to raise one of your hands and look at it. If you get that far try flexing your fingers. If you get that far,,, THEN try anything that seems fun, such as exploring or what ever.