Thread: We only "think" we're lucid

yo, ive dreamed about trying to do wilds before too. also, that particular dream i was talking about, i DID think in my mind that this is a dream so its easy to fly. so yes i did actually dream about being lucid! it is possible.[/b]

That's what I'm saying, man. What you just wrote was a lucid dream. You were at a low level of lucidity, no doubt, but that is a lucid dream, nonetheless. If you are Thinking of being lucid like "Hmm..I wonder what it would be like if I was lucid right now?" You're just dreaming, but you're dreaming of what it would be Like to be lucid. I just think "We think we're lucid dreaming but we're not" isn't what you're describing, because you're not Dreaming you Are lucid dreaming, you're just Thinking of lucid dreaming while you're dreaming. BUT as you just said, you Knew everything was a dream. That means you're lucid. Even if you don't get the full sensory awareness, you're still oriented that "Ok, this is a dream." That qualifies as a real lucid dream, not a fake one.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with you on that one. Either you're genuinely lucid, to whatever degree, or you're not. You can have contradictory thoughts within the dream and so on, but the state of lucidity is pretty well-defined.

i know what its like to be lucid. i dont think it was low lvl lucidity either. i mean maybe, but im possitive i was not lucid. i was dreaming about being lucid. haha think about that for a second.....

thats just it, i DIDNT know everything was a dream, my dream mind did! i was in a coma and had no idea what was going on. when im lucid im wide awake in full control like right now. are u saying you think what i keep having then, is just low level lucid? i know i was just dreaming of knowing i was dreaming, versus actually knowing i was dreaming. i believe that is the true difference in lucid dreaming.

That's my point, Jay. If you Know where you are is a dream, whether you have control or not, you're lucid.
You can be lucid dreaming, and simply choose to sit back, and let the dream play out in front of you. You can even choose to give up control of your own body, and let your subconscious mind dictate to you how you move, but as long as you realize that what you're mentally seeing is a dream, you're lucid dreaming.
To say you're dreaming of lucid dreaming is a little confusing to yourself.
Dreaming you're lucid dreaming, would have to mean the same as Thinking you're lucid dreaming, because thinking, while you're dreaming, is still Thinking. A common misconception about lucid dreaming is that you have to have Control over what you're doing and the world around you. This isn't true. Lucidity is just the presence of mind to say I am dreaming. Anything after that point to raise lucidity (using powers, making the grass grow, or even just walking around while lucid) is a higher form of lucidity than just being able to say "Hey, I'm dreaming."

i know what its like to be lucid. i dont think it was low lvl lucidity either. i mean maybe, but im possitive i was not lucid. i was dreaming about being lucid. haha think about that for a second.....

thats just it, i DIDNT know everything was a dream, my dream mind did! i was in a coma and had no idea what was going on. when im lucid im wide awake in full control like right now. are u saying you think what i keep having then, is just low level lucid? i know i was just dreaming of knowing i was dreaming, versus actually knowing i was dreaming. i believe that is the true difference in lucid dreaming.[/b]

You might have to explain this one to me a little more, cause I just don't get what you're saying. If your Dream Mind (?) knew you were dreaming, how can You not know you are dreaming? I'm not quite sure if I get your meaning by this, but I'll take it one step further anyway. If you are in a coma (was this real life? Or part of the dream?) And you're dreaming, You either Know you're dreaming, you have know idea you're dreaming, or you're stuck in the middle, and you're like \"I wonder if this is a dream?\" If you are Dreaming of being lucid...that is...if you are dreaming of knowing everything is a dream...then you know everything is a dream. You're dreaming your thoughts because you are sleeping, and that is the only way you can access your mind is by dreaming. So basically Anything you do while you're dreaming, you're only \"Dreaming of Doing.\" So if you're \"Dreaming of lucid dreaming\" You're lucid dreaming. (Unless you can further explain what you mean by this.)

i DID think in my mind that this is a dream so its easy to fly. [/b]

This means you were lucid dreaming.

so yes i did actually dream about being lucid! [/b]

This is where you're confusing yourself. This isn't a "Dream of a lucid dream." It's just a lucid dream. Maybe even though you thought in your mind "Hey, I'm flying, so this is a dream" and didn't decide to actually "Control" yourself. But you are still lucid to the fact that "This is a dream."

If you wake up from a coma, and look around a hospital room, and can tell yourself "Hey, I'm in a hospital and to day is August 22nd" You're lucid. (In the waking-sense of the word) You don't have to be able to get up and jump around and have full control of your body. Being lucid is simply having the state of mind to know where you are and what your surroundings are. If you Thought it was easy to fly, because you were dreaming, you were lucid dreaming. This is just the lowest level of lucidity that there is: The one where you observe, clear to the fact you are only dreaming, but do not decide to take a conscious participation in the dream. Everything is still kinda fuzzy, and you just kind let things "Happen" as if you are normally dreaming. But it doesn't matter if you're having a regular dream, or a dream Within a dream; If you know you're dreaming, you're lucid, whether its you're consciousness, or your "Dream Mind" (do you just mean your subconscious? cause I"m not sure what you mean by Dream Mind" But still if your Dream Mind knows you are dreaming, you're lucid. It is possible to fly without being lucid, you simply don't notice how strange it is. You can fly around the world 6 times and not be lucid. It doesn't mean you're Thinking of being lucid. It means you're dreaming of flying around the world. Maybe you're calling it "dreaming of lucid dreaming" because you used to be able to only fly in lucid dreams? But if you're non-lucid, and you fly around the world, you're not dreaming of dreaming you're lucid. You're dreaming of flying around the world, which isn't lucidity at all unless you know you're flying because you're dreaming. Now..you said you Did know you're flying because you were dreaming (or your dream mind did?) So...this qualifies as a lucid dream.

i disagree, im sure lots of people have posted already, but in my dreams i experence the dream, and the dreams usually end becuase i wake up, it seems to me that the instent my dream ends i wake up. so i would disagree that its just the memory.

oner, if thats the case then ive had a ton of LDs! but i still wouldnt call them LDs >_< sorry. i wasnt in a coma! what i mean is my mind was not fully turned on like now and like in my other LDs in which i quickly wake from excitement. maybe i only think high lvl LDs are LDs, who knows.

but this morning i had what YOU would call, ANOTHER LD lol. i was lying in bed and felt vibrations and SP (maybe in real life or a dream). so i guess....in my mind i thought to myself that this was like an OBE or something. anyway i used my mind to float up out of bed and around my room. i think this is called a type 2 FA. it felt really fuzzy and energetic in my mind. would you call this another LD? maybe. if this is the case then i am an LD god! j/k i keep having these "low lvl lds" like almost every day or two.

there is two mind states in dreaming. a coma-like mind that accepts everything, no matter how odd (including my subconscious telling me im dreaming). and the true LD mind in which you are fully alert and comprehending everything in a full analytical state. i stand by my statement in saying that being in the "dreamy mindstate" is not truly lucid, even if im dreaming of knowing im dreaming. i read that there are different lvls of lucidity but i guess i only assume your either lucid or not. maybe im wrong

Time can be a very subjective topic all on its own.
But in reguards to lucid dreaming the fact is conscious choices are being made and then reacted to during your dream . So to say that dream time is just a memory, then you would have to ponder over the fact about our conscious decisions while we are awake.
Once time has past,all it really is is a memory.
So does it only exist at one particualr moment?

What exactly are your dad’s qualifications? Where is he getting his data from? I’m not trying to be rude, just curious.


As long as we are talking Physics, does anyone have any comments on String Theory?

It's all good, man. Whichever way you wanna call it is alright with me. 8)

Jay dawg wrote:

but this morning i had what YOU would call, ANOTHER LD lol. i was lying in bed and felt vibrations and SP (maybe in real life or a dream). so i guess....in my mind i thought to myself that this was like an OBE or something. anyway i used my mind to float up out of bed and around my room. i think this is called a type 2 FA. it felt really fuzzy and energetic in my mind. would you call this another LD? maybe. if this is the case then i am an LD god! j/k i keep having these \"low lvl lds\" like almost every day or two. [/b]

Your question is: "Would you call this another LD?" My answer is: "You're not giving us enough information to tell whether or not this was another LD. Being alert enough to say "Hmm..this feels like an OBE or something," then floating up and around the room by your own, conscious power, with the fuzzy and energetic feeling, and vibrations and SP does not answer the question of whether or not you were lucid. Or perhaps it does. Saying to yourself "This feels like an OBE or something." Tells us that your not lucid dreaming. You are not lucid to the fact that you are in a dream state, beyond a shadow of a doubt. You were conscious enough to question your state, but not conscious enough to answer correctly with Certainty. In fact, you got the answer wrong.

That is a very vivid false awakening, in which you were able to levitate. (Flying is common in non-lucid dreams also, who's to say False Awakening in your bed and levitating shortly after is abnormal?) You were conscious enough to question your surroundings. (THIS is lucidity's doorstep.) However, whatever the reason, you got the answer wrong. Even though you were still able to fly around your room, you were under the assumption that it was something Other Than a lucid dream, and therefore, were not lucid.

I hate when that happens though.

I had one dream where I woke up in a false awakening, got up and went to the computer to type in my journal, and decided to do a reality check, just to be sure of my surroundings. I looked at the cup on my desk and tried to lift it with my mind...and it lifted.
Now, the difference between what happened between yours and my scenario is that when you were elevating, you said "this must be an OBE," and kept flying around. In my dream, when the cup lifted off of the desk, I thought: "Oh Shit I'm still Dreaming!!"

That is when my false awakening became a lucid dream; More specifically, the lowest level of lucidity.

And to shed a little light on why I think there are different levels to lucidity, just so you can kinda see where I'm coming from:

Think of lucidity in the exact mirror-image of waking life.
When you are awake, you can be so tired, or heavily sedated, you don't pay attention to anything. You're just kind of...there..zombielike. Just 'not yourself,' or lethargic, or however you wanna call it. To the extreme of this, you can be completely ALIVE with energy while awake. (usually after high activity.) There is a difference. When you are ALIVE, your senses sharpen. Your mind speeds up. You become more conscious of anything and everything around you. (Or whatever you're focusing on in particular at that moment.) Your vibratory state and sheer existence seems to transform into something completely more In-Tune, if you will.
Lucidity is the same way. If you're wandering the hallway of a dream, and you look down and notice your feet are stepping further and further from the ground with each step you take, and you think. "Hmm..wow...I'm dreaming." You're lucid. No questions asked. You are conscious enough to recognize this to not be the waking world. Compare this to being lethargic, or tired, or just 'out of it' while you're awake. Your thought pattern is "yeah..hmm..well I'm here, I'm alive (or I'm dreaming)..but so what?" That is both the lowest level of dreaming lucidity or waking Awareness. Stay with me here...I've been cheifing like a Navajo Indian,, but I know where I'm goin with this... 8)
The more you become aware of your control over your dream, the more lucid you become. The more conscious you are that everything you see (even the things in your peripheral vision that you're hardly even Noticing) is a dream, the more Lucid you're becoming. I think this also explains the "heightened senses" you get when you lucid dreaming vividly. (Many people experience this. Don't you?) The grass becomes clearer, sounds become louder, and you can Feel your dream body like the waking world.
If you pick up a dream rock while just "kind of lucid," your frame of mind could be "Hmm..if I'm dreaming, I wonder if I can make this rock into something else." You may try and try and try, and fail, or try twice and succeed. That is not what's important though...
In a High level of lucidity, you would know that Everything around you was a product of your mind, and could be manipulated as if it were a part of your own body. You would have no troubles doing what you wanted to do. (Which some lucid dreamers Do have.) There would be no questions to ask because you know that Anything you wanted to happen could, and would only happen because you tell it. Every molecule of your dreamworld would be an extention of your own conscious thought, and would be controllable by you without a doubt. (I don't even think I've had this. I'm still in the exploratory phase of lucid dreaming. I don't think anyone knows Everything that is possible in LD'ing.)
Your level of lucidity parallels your level of waking awareness. Both of them can fluctuate, (sp?) it just depends on how Conscious you are of everything around you.

even if we only think we're lucid, its only what we think that matters. we're in our own imagination so it doesnt really matter if we are really lucid because we know we're lucid?

Originally posted by OpheliaBlue
This is what my dad said: that we aren't aware of our dreams in real time. That the only memory we have of our dreams is just that, when we remember or recall them when we're awake. So even in a lucid dream, we're not experiencing them in real time. Rather, when we wake up, we only remember the lucid dream.

Does that make sense?

Anyway, I think that's BS. Otherwise how could we have dream control? Or am I missing his point?

I think to some degree your Dad is right, because the mind must separate of act of dreaming from real time because the two are existing within two different realms of reality. They can not encroach upon each the two different realms. We can with our dreams solve problems. That our real time brains can't, because our carnal minds are linear, and can only approach the problem from a step 1, step 2, step 3 methodology. So, also is its approach to the recall of a LD... Recall is an act of the physical brain. LD is more an act of the Spirit than the brain....the two are separate realms of reality.

The Rev.

Originally posted by OpheliaBlue
This is what my dad said: that we aren't aware of our dreams in real time. That the only memory we have of our dreams is just that, when we remember or recall them when we're awake. So even in a lucid dream, we're not experiencing them in real time. Rather, when we wake up, we only remember the lucid dream.

Does that make sense?

Anyway, I think that's BS. Otherwise how could we have dream control? Or am I missing his point?

WAIT WAIT WAIT! ... i'm confused! ... so we like wake up from the dream & later believe it was lucid when it really wasn't?

Originally posted by Girismyleader


WAIT WAIT WAIT! ... i'm confused! ... so we like wake up from the dream & later believe it was lucid when it really wasn't?

If that is the case then ask yourself next time when you see something and no one else is around. Did that just happen.
People cannot except the fact that you can become conscious because they percieve sleeping as unconscious.
I know when I am conscious.
Does it fit these catagories?
Having an awareness of one's environment and one's own existence, sensations, and thoughts. See Synonyms at aware.
Mentally perceptive or alert; awake: The patient remained fully conscious after the local anesthetic was administered.
Capable of thought, will, or perception: the development of conscious life on the planet.
Subjectively known or felt: conscious remorse.
Intentionally conceived or done; deliberate: a conscious insult; made a conscious effort to speak more clearly.
Inwardly attentive or sensible; mindful: was increasingly conscious of being watched.
Especially aware of or preoccupied with. Often used in combination: a cost-conscious approach to further development; a health-conscious diet.

Well let's think, you LD and then once you've realised you're LD'ing you decide what you want to do, remember your techniques and stop yourself from waking up, you then wake up and your dream is now a memory

Just because you dont sometimes recall a dream doesn't mean it didn't happen for example when you get very very drunk you don't remember doing things and have loss of memory.

Watch inception, it has a theory of one hour in a dream is 5 minutes in the real world, not sure if this theory is correct but it could explain long dreams or multiple dreams fitting into a short period of REM if it is true.

Either way during the LD you make a conscious decision to do things as if you're actually there and you can consciously control variables within the dream to your liking rather than the dream playing out against your will when you're not lucid.

This thread is from 2005.

We typically discourage people from necroposting in threads older than 2 years. Again, I repeat...this thread is from 2005.

2005.

No.