Thread: WTF was I doing?

If I were you I really wouldn't attempt WILD it can give you sleep paralysis.

I had sleep paralysis before *sobs* trust meh. You don't want it.

I guess you "partially" entered a dream. It just shouldn't be only your visual which is experiencing the dream, try to emerge all you senses in it.
And don't forget to apply WBTB with it. It really helps when you are near your REM (for vivid and long lasting dreams). You should take your time for a technique like WILD.
To tell you the truth my friend can wild everyday easily even without a WBTB. And I am here, just stuck with hardly 2-5 Wilds/Month.

Originally Posted by xXxArtistxXx

If I were you I really wouldn't attempt WILD it can give you sleep paralysis..

Disagree, You don't have to reach SP (REM ATONIA) in order to wild(oh! for the love of god). Think it as an obstacle in your path, you may or may not experience it.

Originally Posted by xXxArtistxXx

I had sleep paralysis before *sobs* trust meh. You don't want it.

And If you do just ignore it, It may be scary but its just a part of your imagination (ghosts and devils).

If I were you I really wouldn't attempt WILD it can give you sleep paralysis.

I had sleep paralysis before *sobs* trust meh. You don't want it.

It seems like you are misinformed. WILD does not give you sleep paralysis. Sleep paralysis is a condition, and if you have it, you have it, regardless of whether you attempt to WILD or not. (see http://www.dreamviews.com/f157/sleep...lained-136925/ for more details). The things that people describe during a WILD attempt are most probably just normal body sensations that may or may not come up. These include tingling and numbing sensations, as well as hallucinations that come in many forms.


As for the OP's situation. It does seem like you're starting to enter the dream, and having some consciousness while it's happening, which is basically a WILD. You just need to calm down and try to go along with it. Focus on the dream, and do not think about your physical body, doing that usually jolts people awake, and not doing anything at all lets them fall asleep completely. When the dream seems to become vivid or stable, you're most probably in it already, so you can then do some reality checks and enjoy the lucidity!

Good luck

Yeah, a WILD or start of one...i have had a couple like that where I could see but also aware I was in bed.. I have also had thrashing around in dream and FA'ed thinking I was still doing that in my bed, and just knew my wife was going to say 'what the hell are you doing?!!' Fortunatel I did then awake and all was quite.

One word: Hypnagogia

There are no clear definitions of when something is a dream, so when the other said that it was partially a dream they were very right.

Hypnagogia is something I experience every night as I meditate, There is no simple explanation of how to meditate although there is one of how to experience hypnagogia:

RELAXATION - Close your eyes, sit in a posture that is uncomfortable to fall asleep in but comfortable to be in, like sitting. Preferably in a dark room.

To keep focus say something out loud as you relax the body, I usually say something weird like alum-badedum. Loud and in a rythm.

After some time it will feel boring and I stop saying it, but say it for as long as possible. The key is to say it until you enjoy nothingness and silence more than an action and doing. Now say it mentally in your head and try to keep the focus as much as you can on the mantra, after some time mild hypnagogia will occur like you are thinking something weird like (toasters aren't for the professionals of tennis) o. O (I know but I think you will experience this as well).

Continue doing this and after about 30-40 minute of relaxation you will feel small vibrations in your body (don't focus on them though, it's not sleep paralysis! It's just your body' sensation of relaxation, you can still move...) But try to not put too much attention on this your focus should be on your mantra primarily.

At the same time you will also start experiencing the partially dream state called hypnagogia (hypnagogic auditory and imagery).

Remember that it can be occur earlier than 30-40 minutes even 5-10 minutes.

This was my simple definition of what hypnagogia is and how you can induce it. But Hypnagogia in itself is very undefined so let's try to define it even more, don't take the rest serriously, because I am not qualified to make a guess at all. It's just for fun!

Although here is my guess of what is actually happening, based on my current "knowledge" of brain chemistry.

After long time of relaxation and not moving, the body will decrease the aminergic system of the brain that governs your critical thinking and increase the cholinergic system which well right now can be one explanation to why we dream. aminergic system is (dopamine, serotonine and norepinephrine) and cholinergic (acetylcholine) not 100 % sure what each chemical does altough what we need to know for now is just the general effect of these system which I described above.

So perhaps the most clear definition of this yet is that the cholinergic system is slightly active in hypnagogia but even more active in REM sleep.

I hope this give inspiration and motivation.

Happy hypnagogic trips!

Originally Posted by xXxArtistxXx

If I were you I really wouldn't attempt WILD it can give you sleep paralysis.

I had sleep paralysis before *sobs* trust meh. You don't want it.

Keep your misinformed negativity to your own threads, other people are trying to learn.

@ixsetf: Basically do what Mastermind said. As you practice awareness on the edge of sleep you'll be able to follow the hypnagogia to the generation of a dream. It's particularly easy to do this at the weekend when you can sleep in if you set your alarm for the time you'd usually get up, return to sleep, and then watch for images in passive way like Mastermind describes.

Originally Posted by ixsetf

... it felt like a combo of being awake and lucid dreaming at the same time. I was well aware that I was laying down in bed and I was aware of the inside of my eyelids. However, I could see a very vivid picture at the same time, (which was a mountain peak in the desert last night/weird sex thing that you don't want to know about the night before that) and I could feel my body being jerked around as if I was doing what I was doing in the "dream" in real life.

If the picture behind your eyelids filled up you whole field of view, you were on the verge of entering a lucid dream, when your dream has already formed, but you were still too awake to fall asleep. Next time, try to enter the dream by imagining yourself in there. Sensations and types of entry into WILD.

If the picture was smaller, it was HH, which is a beginning dream.

Either way, you were very close. Keep at it

Lots of good advice in this thread, but there is still one thing that is confusing me.

I didn't really explain very well in my OP, but this happened before sleeping, and under normal circumstances you don't start to dream until you have slept for at least an hour and a half. So, I normally shouldn't have been able to WILD, but I came very close to it, twice, and without particularly trying to make it happen either time.

So is there some sort of wall that would prevent this from turning into a full on lucid dream? Or do I have some special ability to WILD without WBTB? Probably the first one but still want to ask.

^^ Actually I think Mastermind answered your OP quite well already, ixsetf ; this sounds more like hypnagogia than anything to me. Also, you really cannot accidentally WILD, as it is by definition an act of intentional awareness (in other words, you gotta try).

Regarding having a WILD immediately upon sleeping at night: Of course you can do that. It isn't easy, because you must navigate delta sleep (NREM) for up to ninety minutes (very cool BTW, if you can manage it), but it can be done, with practice. It can be done, Normally: If you are subject to narcolepsy, there is a chance that you will drop into REM immediately, whenever you go to sleep. This might be what's happening to you, though I still believe you're just experiencing some hypnagagia.

Finally, the part you don't want to hear: There is an chance that you are dreaming quite normally (90 minutes really are passing before REM), but you failed to notice the time passing because you were, well, asleep, locked in the timeless nothingness of delta. It might have felt like you were aware all the time, but in reality you dozed, and then consciously noticed the dream images when they started. There's nothing wrong with this; any lucid dream is just fine, regardless of how it was initiated.

So, sadly, you probably don't have a special ability. That "wall" holding you back is simply your own level of awareness... go into this experience with your self-awareness at waking-life levels, and you'll likely find yourself able enjoy lucid dreams regularly. It isn't a unique "talent" by any measure, but it's nothing to sneeze at!

Oh, and be sure to thoroughly ignore xXxArtistxXx's statement about SP; it is wrong.

I was under the impression that WILD was impossible to do immediately after going to sleep, I guess I was wrong about that. I was more surprised because I didn't hit a wall, and I could maintain the dream or whatever it was just as well as anything else, although it wasn't as immersive as normal. I was basically wondering if what I was doing that could work to achieve a lucid dream or not with that last bit.

^^ Nothing, in the end, is impossible; just occasionally really difficult.

That said, keep in mind that this experience was probably not an actual dream, but hypnagogic images. That's not a bad thing, and, given the innate talent you appear to possess, there's no reason you can't use your focal skills in an actual WILD. In other words, yeah, what you are doing likely will work to achieve a lucid dream. Maybe you should try it out...

Sounds like you were in a Theta brainwave state... a form of self-hypnosis. In a side note has anyone noticed we cannot 'like' a post anymore? Or am I doing something wrong?

I did notice that I'm guessing it has something to do with this

Anyway, I think I'll try it again and then we'll see what happens

Thx! I would like your reply but... you know

I just did an experiment relating to hypnagogia, and I am really shocked that it worked, can you guys try it and see if you can do it?

First: get in a dark room with at least 2 small sources of light, one should be brighter than the other, and lay in bed for a few minutes with your eyes shut, until you can see dots or the outlines of shapes.

Second: open your eyes and hopefully you will still be able to see the dots or shapes from when your eyes were closed

Finally: stare at the 2 sources of light, and focus on the dots or shapes and try to multiply them (which works like creating something in a lucid dream), make sure to keep your eyes open! This takes staring contest willpower!

If this works, you should start to see darkness creeping into your peripheral vision, and first the dimmer and then the brighter one will appear to go out as you lose the ability to see your surroundings.

Originally Posted by ixsetf

I was under the impression that WILD was impossible to do immediately after going to sleep, I guess I was wrong about that. I was more surprised because I didn't hit a wall, and I could maintain the dream or whatever it was just as well as anything else, although it wasn't as immersive as normal. I was basically wondering if what I was doing that could work to achieve a lucid dream or not with that last bit.

WILD is not impossable at bedtime. What the problem is, is simply that REM, which is really easy to dream in, happens later. It is hard to get good dreams started in nREM. Hypnogogia is likely what you have experienced. It is basically the begining of dream like states that take place in nREM or even just restful repose.

We have two seperate things here. Simple hypnogogia can be experienced at almost any time when you are highly relaxed. HH can be vivid and interesting. Then you have the possability of an actual dream forming in nREM. In nREM1 you are often still aware of your body, and many subjects denie they were asleep, despite the lab equipment saying they were. If you form an LD in nREM1 which can happen, but is not easy, then you get a mixed state. In that state a weak LD is running and you can still sense your body and limited surroundings. Your experience could be either. If you maintain your awareness into a slightly deeper nREM state you should be able to have a good LD, but it is just not going to be much like the dreams you normally think of. nREM lucids can be any sort of weird, but are not the thing you normally remember experiencing.

I try and incubate dreams and sometimes when I am visualizing I will lose consciousness but still know I am laying in bed. Impossible to explain really, but everything I imagine happens and I have to move around with my mind (just imagining it) but everything I imagine happens. And even though I know I am laying I'm bed and just imagining it, I don't really understand what I'd going on and I just do whatever dream I try to incubate. If you are confused then don't worry, so am I. I don't know if this is the same thing you are experiencing, but even so I'd like to hear what people think about it.

edit and I can feel both bodies, like I can sometimes when I am waking up.