False Lucid Debate

First off, sorry if this is in the wrong category ^ ^

So, we all know that there is a split understanding of False Lucids. Half of us believe in them, and use the term, and half of us don't and say that they don't exist. I must say that I do see from each point of view, I can see how they can, and can not exist.

Of course it's not entirely important, but i think it should be pointed out.
False Lucids, whether or not you believe in them, can be possible. It's clearly just a matter of opinion. I've noticed, though that most, or all of the Dream Guides on this side seem to be against them. So, I can say that False Awakenings should have a similar story, but everyone believes they are possible.

You may say that they are two entirely different things, and of course they are. I'm not saying that False Awakenings aren't real, because they are. But, if you look at it this way:

Why people think False Lucids aren't real:
You either realize you are dreaming, or you don't. It is impossible to have a FALSE lucid, because a lucid is when you realize you're dreaming.

Why people thing False Awakenings are real:
In a false awakening, you are laying in your bed (or a bed) and you feel as if you just woke up from a dream, but it is a dream.

So, really, if you want to take the "false lucid" train of thought, you would say that False Awakenings weren't real either. Because "You're either awake or your not." awakening is when you EXIT the dream. So therefore, if you are just entering another dream scene where you are laying in your bed, it is NOT waking up, right?

Yet people still seem to think False Awakenings are real, and not False Lucids.

A False Lucid, though many people will have a different idea since no one agrees that they actually exist, is when you act as if you are in a dream, without actually realizing. At least, thats how my False Lucid turned out,

If you disagree, and obviously lots of people will, that's fine, but don't be dissin cause well I don't think it's ok to diss on a 14 year old over something that obviously people have different views on. :D so yeah. If you actually bothered to take the time to read this, thanks, it's just that it was on my mind for a long time and I couldnt focus on school until I could get it out of my head ... so thanks for reading and please feel free to post your opinions ^ ^

Hmm tough one I think that this thread is in the correct section, because it discuss the meaning of what it means when one say that they lucid dream.

If I made a wrong decision some other Dream Guide can move the thread :)

But back to topic.. I absolutely agree with you, and your very smart to compare the meaning of waking up with the meaning of becoming aware that one is dreaming. ;-)

I think there is a difference between the terms "lucidity" and awareness. Awareness just means to be aware of something, it can be anything from being aware that your are watching your computer now to the awareness of knowing that it isn't real. Lucidity simply means that you are aware that the situation you are experiencing isn't real, however if a person in a dream situation think to himself "I am dreaming" without actually knowing he/she is dreaming, well then it's obviously not lucidity, but a statement, but that is not debatable because the only person who can fully know if he/she was aware or not in that situation,
is the dreamer himself/herself. Awareness of a dream is a complicated concept to map out, but I think Reece Jones did it very well.

This is why I use his Layers of Awareness (Lucidity) in my Dream Journal to make it fully clear how aware I was of the situation. If one is experiencing Layer 3 (Minor) (Sober and lucid and one grasp all the four implications of dreaming but is not in full control of the dream and even though fully lucid one is still directed of the dream) one is just as "lucid" as if he was experiencing Layer 2 (minor) Lucid but are not grasping the four implications of dreaming: Physical body, Dream Control, Dream Characters, Dream Situation.

Because lucidity simply means that one is aware that one is dreaming. You can't be more aware of the knowledge of dreaming itself.

However a person is more aware in Layer 3 (Minor) than Layer 2 (Minor).

Awareness of a dream is awareness of the memories, emotions and subconscious in other words what builds up the personality of you. The balance between these three factors is what affects how aware of the dream you will be. When you are unaware of the emotions you might be tricked to believe that a dream character is your biggest crush for example.

When you balance all three you are sober and fully aware of the dream and beyond.

Awareness in itself is something much greater than memories, emotions and subconscious however that is really off-topic so if you want to hear my opinions on that read my Dream Journal.

Haha it seems like my lessons in Philosophy have paid off :content:

This is just my opinion, but it's based on my dreaming experience, now think about your own and see if you come to the same conclusion ;)

Until now, I cannot fully understand how a person could say in a dream "I'm dreaming" without realizing it's a dream... How are they taking the concept of "dreaming"?