Lucid Nightmares

[Baron Samedi]

Ever had lucid nightmares? I used to get stuck in them for what seemed like hours with NO CONTROL.

[Alyzarin]

I've never had one, but I kind of want to for the experience. The concept confuses me a bit. How can you really be that afraid if you know you're dreaming?

[Ctharlhie]

Hm, the topic of lucid nightmares bothers me. You know the usual story of a natural lucid dreamers is 'I had nightmares and found that I could control the outcome, over time being lucid in dreams became a habit', well I had nightmares for years that I always recognised as dreams and could wake myself from, how did I never take the last step and become a natural lucid dreamer? I would say I now experience nightmares about once a year. Anxiety dreams are far more prevalent.

[12padams]

I've never had one (a lucid nightmare), but I kind of want to for the experience. The concept confuses me a bit. How can you really be that afraid if you know you're dreaming? The dream world can be frightening even when you know your dreaming! For example My plan to carry out in my lucid dream was to use my bedroom door to take me to the location I desired... I unfortunately have a very scary encounter however and my fear was just as great as if I were awake. You can read my scary lucid dream experience from this direct link: Scary experience within a lucid dream!!!! The fear comes from the fact you what you hear, see and feel is exactly the same as real life. I don't know about you but I find it terrifying to feel myself being ripped apart while watching and hearing it happen directly to me as if it were happening in real life. The only difference is the lack of life long consequences such as scars but apart from that you still feel the same pain you do in real life... At least I do... Ever had lucid nightmares? I used to get stuck in them for what seemed like hours with NO CONTROL. Technically your not actually lucid but instead experiencing simulated lucidity. Just because you may "know your dreaming" within a dream it doesn't mean that you are. For example from the age of 5 to 15 I had a different nightmare each and every night about a "wild cat" that continuously seeked me out wherever I was and killed me. To escape it I used to only be able to awaken once I committed suicide. The most common way I woke myself up from these nightmares was running to the balcony and jumping off it. I usually awoke while free falling 100 meters off my balcony. It had to be off my balcony since if I didn't fall fast enough or for long enough I would be unable to awaken. These nightmares stopped as soon as I discovered lucid dreaming/astral projection about 3 years ago. Was I lucid... Well it seemed I was since I always said "I know I am dreaming" and attempted to awaken by jumping off my balcony or drowning myself. The correct answer however is no since it was simulated lucidity. Although I controlled where I wanted to go and escape to I did not have the ability to preplan things I wished to do. They were simply nightmares which involved my escape from a wild cat followed by my attempts to wake myself up. Hm, the topic of lucid nightmares bothers me. You know the usual story of a natural lucid dreamers is 'I had nightmares and found that I could control the outcome, over time being lucid in dreams became a habit', well I had nightmares for years that I always recognized as dreams and could wake myself from, how did I never take the last step and become a natural lucid dreamer? I would once again say this was simulated lucidity which I experienced for 10 years... Real lucid dreams are completely different... Trust me. I you wanna know what my real lucid experiences have been like (since I started 4 months ago) check out my blog which has a free download to my eBook. My eBook has a reference section with snippets of my experiences throughout the book. Don't read my whole book since it has non lucid dreams as well as other "awake all night experiences" and explorations of techniques for becoming lucid which I am sure your not interested in... My book is freely available to download here: (when I say "phase" I mean "dream world") Out-of-Body Experience (OBE) and Lucid Dreaming - Entering the Phase - A 17-Year-Old’s Journey I wish everyone the best of luck... Remember there's no such thing as a lucid nightmare but there are scary experiences within lucid dreams. A lucid nightmare is a nightmare with a simulated lucid experience with an absence of the conscious mind.

[Baron Samedi]

The dream world can be frightening even when you know your dreaming! The fear comes from the fact you what you hear, see and feel is exactly the same as real life. No. My fear came from being afraid that I would be stuck in a nightmare forever and not be able to wake up. Technically your not actually lucid but instead experiencing simulated lucidity. Just because you may "know your lucid" within a dream it doesn't mean that you are. Not sure who you are quoting there. I am not talking about knowing you are lucid. I am talking about knowing you are dreaming. Was I lucid... Well it seemed I was since I always said "I know I am dreaming" and attempted to awaken by jumping off my balcony or drowning myself. The correct answer however is no since it was simulated lucidity. Although I controlled where I wanted to go and escape to I did not have the ability to preplan things I wished to do. They were simply nightmares which involved my escape from a wild cat followed by my attempts to wake myself up. The correct answer is yes, if you know you are dreaming while you are dreaming, it is a lucid dream. That's it. I would once again say this was simulated lucidity which I experienced for 10 years... Real lucid dreams are completely different... Trust me. No. I don't know you well enough to trust you. I wish everyone the best of luck... Remember there's no such thing as a lucid nightmare but there are scary experiences within lucid dreams. A lucid nightmare is a nightmare with a simulated lucid experience with an absence of the conscious mind. lucid dream Main Entry: lucid dream Part of Speech: n Definition: a dream state in which one is conscious enough to recognize that one is in the dream state and which stays in one's memory lucid dreaming Main Entry: lucid dreaming Part of Speech: n Definition: lucid dream Example: The most basic definition of lucid dreaming is "being aware you are dreaming while dreaming." nightmare noun 1. a terrifying dream in which the dreamer experiences feelings of helplessness, extreme anxiety, sorrow, etc. 2. a condition, thought, or experience suggestive of a nightmare: the nightmare of his years in prison. 3. (formerly) a monster or evil spirit believed to oppress persons during sleep. (dictionary.com) So, a lucid dream is dream in which you are aware you are dreaming. A nightmare is a terrifying dream. A nightmare in which you are aware you are dreaming is a lucid nightmare. Lucidity is being aware that you are dreaming. That's it.

[Puffin]

I've had a couple lucid nightmares and one "would-be" nightmare but I managed to divert it. That dog was baring its teeth, about to rip me to shreds and eat me, and I felt the atmosphere of the dream shift to something dark and morbid... But then I asked it if it wanted something better to eat. It said yes and we walked off, friends. As for the actual nightmares... They both involved excruciating pain, a total loss of control (including that over movement) and hyper-awareness - that really made it difficult because I tried to wake up but was too focused on the dream. I tried to forget my surroundings but the sensations in the dream were really strong. I couldn't really do anything but close my eyes and bear it for a few minutes... Which seemed to drag on forever until the dream ended! Lucid nightmares, in my opinion, are worse than normal nightmares - you actually have the awareness to experience all those different parts of the nightmare, whereas in a normal dream you're just living through it without really feeling conscious fear or pain.

[Baron Samedi]

I've never had one, but I kind of want to for the experience. The concept confuses me a bit. How can you really be that afraid if you know you're dreaming? Demons have you chained to a stone table in a Satanic ceremony in an underground temple of death. You realize you are dreaming. You try to wake up. The demons laugh and disembowel you. You scream in horror, and try to wake up. They stuff your guts back in and sew you up with a three foot needle. You scream in horror, and try to wake up. The demons pour oil on you...

[Alyzarin]

The fear comes from the fact you what you hear, see and feel is exactly the same as real life. I don't know about you but I find it terrifying to feel myself being ripped apart while watching and hearing it happen directly to me as if it were happening in real life. The only difference is the lack of life long consequences such as scars but apart from that you still feel the same pain you do in real life... At least I do... Demons have you chained to a stone table in a Satanic ceremony in an underground temple of death. You realize you are dreaming. You try to wake up. The demons laugh and disembowel you. You scream in horror, and try to wake up. They stuff your guts back in and sew you up with a three foot needle. You scream in horror, and try to wake up. The demons pour oil on you... To be honest, those specific things sound kind of appealing. >.> I guess I get your point, though.

[Oneironaut Zero]

Yes. I've had quite a few of them; especially as a kid, before I learned control. It's what prompted me to learn how to wake myself up, which is a technique I still use - sometimes involuntarily - when things get too scary and I don't have the presence of mind (or control) to try to tough it out.

[Puffin]

Pleasant dreams. In mine, I was pinned to the floor and felt something dripping on me, then felt super-realistic pain as the blade of a knife dug into my neck and slowly pressed along, down to my back. In another dream, a dark entity was sewing a needle and thread through my back, and I felt the pull of the string. Alyzarin, unless you enjoy possibly feeling like you're dying and being in terrible pain, I'd recommend against inducing a lucid nightmare.

[Alyzarin]

Pleasant dreams. In mine, I was pinned to the floor and felt something dripping on me, then felt super-realistic pain as the blade of a knife dug into my neck and slowly pressed along, down to my back. In another dream, a dark entity was sewing a needle and thread through my back, and I felt the pull of the string. Alyzarin, unless you enjoy possibly feeling like you're dying and being in terrible pain, I'd recommend against inducing a lucid nightmare. >.>;; I used to have kind of a death and torture masochism fetish. I've actually fantasized about being burned alive, drowned, ripped into pieces, stuff like that. However, if I were to have a lucid nightmare, I'm sure it'd come up with a plot I wouldn't enjoy instead of being one of those things, or it wouldn't be a nightmare lol.

[lazerblade]

When I was younger I also had lucid nightmares. I originally just had nightmares, but I learned to recognize them as nightmares and redirect the dream or wake up if I couldn't. Sometime though, I couldn't wake up or control the dream. Those were quite terrifying, often seeming like whatever entity or feeling was the source was preventing me from exiting. I was a rather accomplished lucid dreamer though. I even WILDed once when I was about 9, before I even know what an LD was. I just lost all of my skill an practice when I stopped. Now, years later, I wish I had kept it up.

[12padams]

The correct answer is yes, if you know you are dreaming while you are dreaming, it is a lucid dream. That's it. Wrong... You don't quite understand the concept of simulated lucidity. During my attempts to become lucid which I started 4 months ago and recorded my day by day experiences in a book, I came across simulated lucidity. You must understand that it's possible to dream of being lucid. I know this is a confusing subject for you but it's one that has great importance. If you don't believe in simulated lucid dreaming then I must be a pro lucid dreamer... As a kid I had nightly lucid dreams and in the last 4 months I've had about 40 lucid dreams. The fact is that I've only had 7 truly lucid lucid dreams. For example I had always wanted to perform the breathing through a pinched nose reality check. I didn't believe it was actually possible however I actually experienced cold air running through my pinched nose in a simulated lucid dream before my first real lucid dream. Oh and just for the record in that same simulated lucid dream I lay in my bed and performed a wild and rolled out of my dream body into another dream body after experiencing "sleep paralysis" within 5 seconds of my dream body lying on my dream bed within my simulated lucid dream. Confused yet? Another example is when I dreamt that I was in a sleep research lab performing a wild and successfully found myself awake within a lucid dream... Don't believe me? Heres a quote from my book for you: (please note that I name the dream world "the phase" "Once asleep I had a non-lucid dream set in a sleep research centre. The scientists asked me to attempt a WILD (Wake induced lucid dream). After closing my eyes I eventually started to see fragments of hallways and rooms. Slowly the fragments became reality and I found myself deepening and maintaining the state. Once everything became crystal clear I began to explore. There were a few doors randomly placed along the hallway leading to more rooms however they all seemed to be locked. As a result of this I decided to take the elevator in the middle of the hallway to the top floor. Due to memory gaps I am unable to remember the rest of the dream however I do remember meeting a few people in some of the rooms. Some of these people were vicious and crazy while others were peaceful and befriending." There we go... In that dream I didn't perform my "plan of action" (a planned sequence of events to perform in your next lucid dream which you make while awake). That proves instantly that I was not truly lucid and it was simulated lucidity. If that seems mind boggling to you then you will absolutely die of confusion when you discover that I have even had simulated lucid dreams in which I partly perform my plan of action. Hope you now know what I mean by simulated lucidity. I have my own methods for determining the difference between a simulated lucid and real lucid experience however It's currently not fully accurate and I am still working on and perfecting it. Just trust me when I say that I know what a true lucid dream is... No. I don't know you well enough to trust you. Well you might as well read my book... You can find it here: Out-of-Body Experience (OBE) and Lucid Dreaming - Entering the Phase - A 17-Year-Old’s Journey Don't real the whole thing from beginning to end since it's actually an experience journal. Instead read the reference section which has experience snippets to get your mouth watering. Good luck Last of all it's not you that's incorrect... It's that stupid dictionary meaning of a lucid dream. Dreaming of lucid dreaming is possible so it makes that entry incorrect... One day I'll write a new dictionary entry but until that day simulated lucidity will remain unknown by many. I am not against it in any way however since simulated lucidity has given me experiences before experiencing them for real. Reality checks, wilding, perfectly performing separation from my body and teleportation. Without simulated lucidity I would have never had enough "practice" for my real lucid dreams.

[Baron Samedi]

If you don't believe in simulated lucid dreaming then I must be a pro lucid dreamer... Correct.

[12padams]

If you don't believe in simulated lucid dreaming then I must be a pro lucid dreamer... Correct. What's correct? My theory of simulated lucid dreaming or that I am a pro lucid dreamer? Guess what, the 'WILD' that resulted from that dream lab dream was lucid! But it was probably a very low level of lucidity, Lucid in your book but not in mine. I do classify low levels of lucidity to some of my 7 true lucid experiences as well as classifying 100's of others as simulated lucid experiences. To me there is a scale of how lucid you are in a real lucid dream however there is also a classification system I personally use to determine simulated non-lucid dreams from real ones. What parameters are you basing this assertion of 'simulated' lucidity on Ok... I'll tell you but I believe everyone needs their own personal system.. 1. Did you carry out your single multistep plan of action you made while awake? -the problem is that you can sometimes but rarely do this in a simulated lucid dream. 2. Upon awakening did your thought patterns dramatically or slightly change? - for example While in a simulated lucid dream I know that I am definitely lucid while in it however upon awakening I think "wow why did I do that or not do this and act differently than I usually do" 3. Did you detect all anomalies within the dream? - if you wake up and think "how did that seem completely normal to me within the dream and how come I only noticed it now upon awakening?" then your conscious analytical mind was absent from the dream and only switched on once you awoke and realized things such as extra light switches that you had not noticed within the simulated lucid dream. 4. Did you act upon things only known to your dream self within the dream? - an example is when I was "lucid" and testing out how well I could fly. The environment which I had never seen in real life was completely familiar to my dream self and I even "remembered" a full on history of visiting it in the past. Upon awakening I was like "huh?" I have never been there before. It's like my dream self know the environment and reacted to things accordingly while maintaining the dream and doing teleportation. That's just a quick list for now but I am sure I could make a bigger one if I sat down for a few hours... It seems to me that you have a distorted view of lucid dreaming, to claim to have over forty 'simulated' lucid dreams seems to be entirely a problem with your mindset It's not my claim... I say I have only had 7... Your the one who thinks I have had 40 due to your definition of a lucid dream. Your definition: "knowing" your dreaming in a dream. (knowing can be simulated) My definition: The same analytical conscious mind that is present during waking life being present during a dream. Don't come into a discussion and start generalising a phenomenon that seems to be specific to you to the whole of lucid dreaming You say you know about micheal raduga and his techniques... Well then you must know that simulated lucid dreaming is a concept that is solid in his community. It's not just me or his community either... I see it a lot including those with spiritual theories. If you performed a nose-pinch reality check that was successful and didn't come to the conclusion that you were dreaming then you must have some kind of mental block you need to work through Um no... I "knew" I was dreaming... But It was simulated knowledge(I am getting sick of repeating that). You see my only goal in a lucid dream is to perform my plan of action. If I don't do that and start doing other crazy stuff that I haven't planned or even would want to do then it's my subconscious mind saying I am lucid while my conscious mind sleeps through it and gets confused upon awakening Experiences of fake lucidity often arise from low levels of cognition while in the dream and subsequent poor recall. Judging from what you stated in the thread about your ebook you should reconsider the importance of good dream recall. I have good dream recall... But I agree with what your saying. Lots of memory gaps can make a lucid dream seem non-lucid. However simulated lucidity does exist and memory gaps or no memory gaps you can still tell the difference. Right here is your biggest problem and why I'm not quick to believe your claims about 'simulated lucid' dreams. If you don't even believe the validity of what other people consider to be lucid dreams then how can you accept your own? I take a completely non-biased approach (I bet your gunna quote that against me) with lucid dreaming. I accept no theories but only actual experience. If a theory is put in my direction such as a reality check then I will disbelieve in it until I try it. If it works I will believe in it. The reason I am like this is because everyone around me thinks that the dreamworld is a different thing. Some say it's another dimension with real creatures and that you can be in it with another person and both recall the same event after awakening... Others such as micheal say it's all in your head. What do I believe??? Neither and that's why I perform my own telepathic experiments which have proved both theories correct and incorrect. The more I do however the more I discover to be true and not made up. If you ever read my book (your against my theories so I doubt you will unless you wanna burry me with negative comments to my quotes) you will notice that I barely ever conclude an ongoing theory. That's because things must be absolutely proven correct heaps of times by myself and others before I finally say "ok" that's correct. Take telepathy for example. A friend of mine was able to meet an entity that had been told to meet them in the dreamworld. They knew nothing about this entity however after meeting this entity in the dreamworld my friend knew the appearance, name and super ability that this entity had. Does a telepathic connection exist in the dreamworld.... Well I know after reading that you either think I am lying or you think "Yes". Well my answer is maybe until I get more evidence which I have been collecting over a period of time. Guess what, the 'WILD' that resulted from that dream lab dream was lucid! But it was probably a very low level of lucidity, hence why you didn't carry out the actions you might associate with your rather skewed idea of a lucid dream, such as stabilising and performing some kind of goal. But you were lucid. Any time that you know you are dreaming you are in a lucid dream, whether you came from a different dream scene, had a false awakening, whatever; it doesn't matter, all you need is the knowledge you are dreaming. I "knew I was dreaming" but I wasn't really (simulated lucidity)... I fully believed that the real world was the sleep research centre however it wasn't. I didn't retain real world memories (like I do in real lucid dreams) my only memories were that of being in the sleep research center performing the wild that the scientists had told me to. Overall your not letting me "win". That's why this discussion about lucid nightmares has turned into a discussion about a real thing called "simulated lucid dreaming". If you post again I will be fine with that. If you still don't agree with me that's fine too since you are entitled to your own beliefs in this field just like I am entitled to mine. You can't prove simulated lucid dreaming doesn't exist just like I can't prove telepathic connects don't exist. Both have evidence and both have what appears to be "disproof" but both are currently theories which many people agree with or don't agree with. I don't think we will every agree but I will like always read your reply and take it into consideration. Sorry that this has turned into a fight but when you attempt to say I am wrong when many others agree I am right then there will be no end. Just because I am alone in this single discussion it doesn't mean I am the only one who believes in simulated lucidity!!! Good luck in your journey... Sorry for arguing

[Ctharlhie]

@12padams; I'm pretty much gonna quote what I said in a different thread as it sums up my thoughts to what you said I've never had an experience of 'fake' lucidity, it's my belief that fake lucidity arises from a realisation one is dreaming, but only possessing low levels of waking cognition/operative memory, etc. That being said I'm open to debate on that point. However, by your line of reasoning techniques such as the use of auto-suggestion and post-hypnotic suggestion would have a much higher than average incidence of 'fake lucidity' and I don't believe that is the case. I have had dreams in which I have lain down to WILD, reached sleep paralysis, transitioned and had a fully lucid dream believing I had successfully WILDed, only to realise that I had not in fact WILDed. But the lucid dreams resulting from those 'dream WILDs' were no less lucid than any of my other lucid dreams, in fact my first lucid flying dream came from a 'fake' WILD. Guess what, the 'WILD' that resulted from that dream lab dream was lucid! But it was probably a very low level of lucidity, hence why you didn't carry out the actions you might associate with your rather skewed idea of a lucid dream, such as stabilising and performing some kind of goal. But you were lucid. Any time that you know you are dreaming you are in a lucid dream, whether you came from a different dream scene, had a false awakening, whatever; it doesn't matter, all you need is the knowledge you are dreaming. For example I had always wanted to perform the breathing through a pinched nose reality check. I didn't believe it was actually possible however I actually experienced cold air running through my pinched nose in a simulated lucid dream before my first real lucid dream. Right here is your biggest problem and why I'm not quick to believe your claims about 'simulated lucid' dreams. If you don't even believe the validity of what other people consider to be lucid dreams then how can you accept your own? Oh and just for the record in that same simulated lucid dream I lay in my bed and performed a wild and rolled out of my dream body into another dream body after experiencing "sleep paralysis" within 5 seconds of my dream body lying on my dream bed within my simulated lucid dream. Confused yet? ^See my comment about WILDing in dreams, I believe Sushi has also had lucids resulting from WILDing in dreams. Don't come into a discussion and start generalising a phenomenon that seems to be specific to you to the whole of lucid dreaming. It seems to me that you have a distorted view of lucid dreaming, to claim to have over forty 'simulated' lucid dreams seems to be entirely a problem with your mindset, it's not everyone else who is wrong, it's you. If you performed a nose-pinch reality check that was successful and didn't come to the conclusion that you were dreaming then you must have some kind of mental block you need to work through. Re-evaluate your dream journal entries. Get clued up about levels of lucidity, I recommend that next time you become lucid you use techniques to increase you clarity of mind such as simple maths, remembering real life details and Raduga's deepening techniques. EDIT: What parameters are you basing this assertion of 'simulated' lucidity on? You've stated you've known you were dreaming and carried out dream control and yet you it was simulated... odd. It's not usually a good sign when someone has a personal word for something that only applies to them which everyone else thinks is wrong. I'm not trying to be aggressive or confrontational here, I think you're confused and you're needlessly disregarding many of your lucid dream experiences on unfounded grounds. Experiences of fake lucidity often arise from low levels of cognition while in the dream and subsequent poor recall. Judging from what you stated in the thread about your ebook you should reconsider the importance of good dream recall.

[Ctharlhie]

12Padams: I'm sorry if you think I'm trying to persecute you or 'not let you win', I'm not. I like Raduga's approach as a comprehensive DEILD/WILD technique, but he is essentially repackaging the findings of other dream researchers and writers. He gives different names, such as 'deepening' which we know as 'stabilisation', to established lucid dreaming phenomena to make his work look exciting and original. Here we mostly follow the work of Stephen Laberge and literature associated with 'Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming', what it amounts to is that we have different names for the same thing. I don't deny that there are dreams in which you forget to carry out goals, where you are, even who you are, but if you know you are dreaming, you are lucid, even if just semi-lucid. I shouldn't have to prove that simulated lucidity doesn't exist. I'm looking to you to prove to us that it does exist, and so far all the evidence suggests that you're simply experiencing semi-lucid dreams. I can appreciate if you don't want to discuss it any further, so that's my last word on it.

[12padams]

I don't deny that there are dreams in which you forget to carry out goals, where you are, even who you are, but if you know you are dreaming, you are lucid, even if just semi-lucid. I shouldn't have to prove that simulated lucidity doesn't exist. I'm looking to you to prove to us that it does exist, and so far all the evidence suggests that you're simply experiencing semi-lucid dreams. Just so you know over at Michael's forums the way they scientifically determine the difference between a simulated lucid dream and a truly lucid dream is with a machine or scan called an "Electroencephalography" (EEG for short). A normal dream won't show much brain activity on this machine however a lucid dream shows an increased level of brain activity over a normal dream. Levels of lucidity exist as this machine shows you can have more or less brain activity during a lucid dream. Last of all you can dream that you believe your dreaming which you would classify as a "low lucidity dream" however the readings of these simulated dreams have no difference in reading than normal dreams. There are low lucidity lucid dreams which show a slightly increased brain activity reading over normal dreams but still there can be Normal dreams of being lucid (simulated lucid dream) which show the same reading as a normal dream. Since I don't have one of those machines I have made my own classification system. After every dream that's possibly a lucid one I write down the evidence for and against my lucidity. Within a week I classify the dream either as a lucid, low lucid or non-lucid simulated lucid dream. I also take into account that a dream can start lucid or end lucid but you can always drop in out of of consciousness during the dream even if you have perfect dream recall. So lucidity does not remain constant an entire dream. Last of all here is an example of a dream which is no doubt a simulated lucid dream. In the dream I was In a room and people were in it with me. When they attempted to go outside of the room they said they couldn't because i was in control of the dream and it was my dream. They then discussed rules I agreed with about lucidity but had never heard of in real life. My dream self had known these rules for entirety as well as where he was and his surroundings at the time however my real concious self know none of this. I flew around and tested my "lucid" powers and all the stuff I did was "stupid" and stuff I would never do if i was actually lucid. Think of it like tv... You can have an official movie such as "nightmare on elm street" however tv shows such as "the simpsons" can have the topic of being killed in your dream and clone a movie almost word for word. Just because it has the same content it's not like the Simpsons is the genuine movie... It's pretending to be the movie by having the same topic. This is the same for lucid dreaming. A normal dream can have the same content as a lucid dream however this doesn't mean it's actually a lucid dream. Just because you say "I am dreaming" in a normal dream it doesn't mean your conscious waking mind is actually there. You are simply dreaming of the same content that you might encounter in a real lucid dream. I conclude that lucid dreaming and dreams of lucid dreaming (simulated lucidity) both exist. Whether you agree with me or not is up to you. I have given you the proof but I can't make you believe it unless you go do an EEG reading yourself. Thanks for chatting and good luck in your lucid journey

[Baron Samedi]

What's correct? My theory of simulated lucid dreaming or that I am a pro lucid dreamer? Yes. Overall your not letting me "win". Let him win. That's why this discussion about lucid nightmares has turned into a discussion about a real thing called "simulated lucid dreaming". Sorry that this has turned into a fight but when you attempt to say I am wrong when many others agree I am right then there will be no end. Just because I am alone in this single discussion it doesn't mean I am the only one who believes in simulated lucidity!!! This thread has been hijacked. Please continue discussion of simulated lucidity in another thread. Thanks. Just so you know over at Michael's forums the way they scientifically determine the difference between a simulated lucid dream and a truly lucid dream is with a machine or scan called an "Electroencephalography" (EEG for short). That's a cool religion you have worked out for yourself. Now, the key is to start a cult, and get lots of followers. You will vampire off of your acolytes' energy, and simultaneously spread the gospel of your religion. It's devilishly fun. >.>;; I used to have kind of a death and torture masochism fetish. I've actually fantasized about being burned alive, drowned, ripped into pieces, stuff like that. However, if I were to have a lucid nightmare, I'm sure it'd come up with a plot I wouldn't enjoy instead of being one of those things, or it wouldn't be a nightmare lol. correct! LOL. it's all perspective. I have also had lucid nightmares where I am stuck in SP with a demon on my chest. I can't wake up in those.

[Brigid]

I used to have lucid nightmares when I was a kid but not anymore ... Anyway, I remember having a lot of dreams where I would realize I was dreaming, but then I couldn't get out of the dream. So I'd be trying really hard to wake up but it wouldn't work. I'd be trying to will myself to wake up, and instead I'd just change my surroundings or I'd have a bunch of false awakenings in a row. And/or I'd be trying to scream or run away from something and it wouldn't work. Quite frustrating and not fun. >.<

[Hukif]

Aww lucid nightmares, they are so very fun! Being in a situation where the adrenaline and fear take over your control and overthrowing it is just one of the best things ever!