Adrenaline and Lucid dreaming

[ibanezmonster]

Does anyone know much about the topic of adrenaline levels during sleep (and especially during lucid dreaming)? I honestly know nothing about it, but I'm curious how this might work. I suspect adrenaline levels might possibly the key to WBTB lucid dreaming for me. In my experience, the only consistent method of lucid dreaming is WBTB- over an hour of staying awake intentionally, and then trying to fall back asleep (which usually takes 30 minutes to an hour). The times where I had quicker WBTB's involved being awoken unexpectedly, raising my adrenaline, and then going back to sleep. I suspect forcing yourself to stay awake at so long at 5 am and being jolted awake both increase adrenaline to a similar level. An expected alarm clock at 5 am isn't enough. And I suspect that adrenaline and awareness are linked. Just curious, since I'd like to think of quicker ways of having LD's. Staying up for 2 hours at night really sucks and is a huge time waster. If I could increase my adrenaline quickly somehow without making much noise, maybe I could only having to stay up for 5-10 minutes to have a LD. Any ideas for that, too?

[Saizaphod]

I think adrenaline might raise awareness since isn't it the chemical that makes us more alert and active? Like isn't it the evolutionary "be in the present and more focused" chemical? I still don' think it's a good way of inducing LDs combined with WBTB, because doing physical activities can also make it much harder to fall back asleep. WBTB is much about raising your awareness, but you can also do it with other things that are more relaxed like meditation and mantras. No need to start doing push ups in the wee hours of the night I think Also 10-30 minutes is enough for a really good WBTB combined with mental preparation for the lucid attempt. Some only need to go to the bathroom and return to bed and their WBTB is completed. However if you start to experiment let us know the results.

[Sageous]

I'm not sure that raising adrenaline levels would be helpful to LD'ing. Aside from the fact that higher adrenaline levels tend to negate sleep (which of course is the first step of any dreaming excursion), they also, I believe, stimulate the wrong sort of awareness: Rather than stimulating self-awareness, adrenaline accelerates more basal, instinctual, functions like self-preservation or procreation. So that evolutionary "presence in the moment" that Saizaphod mentions might be true, but it could be a presence that does not include a sense of Self: your body is present and aware, and your mind is focused like a laser on whatever ignited the adrenaline, and both those things push "You" into the background. Now that I think about it, I have a feeling that adrenaline-rush moments might be the most powerful "autopilot" moments we can have, so high levels of adrenaline might not be helpful to LD'ing.

[Saizaphod]

I'm not sure that raising adrenaline levels would be helpful to LD'ing. Aside from the fact that higher adrenaline levels tend to negate sleep (which of course is the first step of any dreaming excursion), they also, I believe, stimulate the wrong sort of awareness Rather than stimulating self-awareness, adrenaline accelerates more basal, instinctual, functions like self-preservation or procreation. So that evolutionary "presence in the moment" that Saizaphod mentions might be true, but it could be a presence that does not include a sense of Self: your body is present and aware, and your mind is focused like a laser on whatever ignited the adrenaline, and both those things push "You" into the background. Now that I think about it, I have a feeling that adrenaline-rush moments might be the most powerful "autopilot" moments we can have, so high levels of adrenaline might not be helpful to LD'ing. I think we have two kinds of adrenalines here? The adrenaline that is generated from physical activity ( if adrenaline is generated during physical activity, feel free to correct me ) that ibanez is probably talking about, and the adrenaline that generates during a threatening situation. I'm not sure if the physical adrenaline takes away from awareness. What about adrenaline in dreams? Many times when there's been an imminent threat approaching me in the dream I have become lucid ( other people might have experienced this too). I get taken away from the autopilot and the "adrenaline"( if it is even produced during threatening dream scenarios ) brings the "Me" to the front instead of being pushed to the background. Or is it just the "shock", the quick thinking process of what's happening and the realization that the scenario is completely bizarre that makes you lucid?

[ibanezmonster]

I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortis...ening_response Maybe it's cortisol, rather than adrenaline, that I'm thinking of. It would be awesome to link be able to link "awareness" to a chemical. As it is, if awareness were purely psychological, I wouldn't consistently fail WBTB's when I only stay up a few minutes, intending to LD. I rarely get the types of lucid dreams like ("this is bizarre, so I think I'm dreaming") types of lucid dreams any more, like Caillou... I mean, Saitama, seems to have, but I'd imagine too much adrenaline during any type of dream might wake you up! At least for me, if I'm in a really scary situation in a dream (fight or flight adrenaline), I tend to wake up. As for my experimentation, 10-30 minutes isn't enough for me for WBTB the way I do it (go to the bathroom and lie in bed, mostly). The whole trick is to try to be alert enough to where I don't feel sleepy and then try to fall asleep. But yeah, I will have to try doing pushups/various exercises to see if it takes less time to get to that non-sleepy state. I'll have to psyche myself up a lot to want to do pushups at 5 a.m., though lol.

[Sageous]

I think we have two kinds of adrenalines here? The adrenaline that is generated from physical activity ( if adrenaline is generated during physical activity, feel free to correct me ) that ibanez is probably talking about, and the adrenaline that generates during a threatening situation. I'm not sure if the physical adrenaline takes away from awareness. I'm not sure there are two kinds of adrenaline; just the one, which I believe is a hormone released by mental stress, and not physical activity (unless of course you consider mental stress physical activity, which at some level I suppose it is). So my response to Ibanez was with that adrenaline in mind, considering he was talking about that jolt that wakes you up (which might be stressful enough to produce a bit of adrenaline, Though I'm not sure). I also can't see any reason why physical activity would reduce awareness, by the way. What about adrenaline in dreams? Many times when there's been an imminent threat approaching me in the dream I have become lucid ( other people might have experienced this too). I get taken away from the autopilot and the "adrenaline"( if it is even produced during threatening dream scenarios ) brings the "Me" to the front instead of being pushed to the background. Or is it just the "shock", the quick thinking process of what's happening and the realization that the scenario is completely bizarre that makes you lucid? I think I would assign that awakening the the shock department. Your body might just produce a bit of adrenaline during that shock, but its production probably wouldn't have much of an impact on your becoming lucid, both because you were likely lucid before the adrenaline could have its effect, and because the adrenaline is effecting your physical body, and not your dream body. I'm pretty sure there is no "dream adrenaline," since dreams operate outside the confines of physical or hormonal activity. Any "adrenaline effect" in the dream (where your dream body is generally disconnected from changes in your physical body) would be based on expectation, imagination, and perception, and not on actual adrenaline production -- even when what you dream is stressful enough to produce adrenaline, you the dreamer probably wouldn't notice it. Sure, I suppose if you injected a large dose of adrenaline/epinephrine into a sleeping person's body something would happen (they'd probably wake up), but that's not really what we're talking about here. ...It would be awesome to be able to link "awareness" to a chemical. As it is, if awareness were purely psychological, I wouldn't consistently fail WBTB's when I only stay up a few minutes, intending to LD. Though I'm of the camp that likes to believe that self-awareness transcends direct links to chemicals, it can certainly be encouraged by certain compounds. Gallantamine and choline (together), for instance, seems an excellent compound for helping you become more awake during a dream... of course, even this only helps; you still are pretty much solely responsible for becoming self-aware in your dreams... But yeah, I will have to try doing pushups/various exercises to see if it takes less time to get to that non-sleepy state. I'll have to psyche myself up a lot to want to do pushups at 5 a.m., though lol. Be careful you don't get too "non-sleepy," as sleep is your primary physical goal in WILD; WBTB's are definitely a question of balance.