Arizona Killer Jared Loughner and Lucid Dreaming: Time Magazine Flub?

[MorningView]

I felt it important to note a potential misunderstanding of a possible connection to Jared Loughner's violent act and lucid dreaming. The author of the article "A Mind Unhinged" by John Cloud in this week's issue of Time Magazine appears to make it look like lucid dreaming may have contributed (or caused) to Loughner's psychotic mental state. Cloud states: "...Loughner's interest in his lucid dreams is significant, because last year the European Science Foundation reported that lucid dreaming 'creates distinct patterns of electrical activity in the brain that have similarities to the patterns made by psychotic conditions.' Loughner's drug use could have kept him from falling into deep sleep and encouraged lucid dreaming. The European group said paranoid delusions can occur when lucid dreams are replayed repeatedly after the subject wakes up. Loughner was replaying his lucid dreams in an extensive dream journal, according to his friend Bryce Tierney, who spoke with Mother Jones magazine." I read both the European Science Foundation and the Mother Jones articles (I will post links below), and it seems that Cloud misinterpreted the articles. The European group did not say that paranoid delusions can occur when lucid dreams are replayed when the dreamer wakes up. All they really said is that realistic simulations of threatening events in dreams contribute to evolutionary survival. When real life threats happen, the brain is ready because it has "replayed" the threat before in a dream state. The article does not definitively say that people can develop paranoid delusions because people replay lucid dreams in real life. Also, all the Mother Jones article states is that Loughner kept an extensive dream journal--not that he was "replaying" the lucid dreams after he awoke. I should note that I do understand how lucid dreaming could harm people who are already psychologically unstable. In healthy people, however, lucid dreaming should pose little to no negative psychological consequences. Anybody out there have any thoughts on this? I just found that part of the Time article a little fishy so I dug a little to find out more. EXT: News-Singleview : European Science Foundation[tt_news]=585&cHash=f5fc64419415ae815426092cda6c2aa0 The above link does not seem to work. The title of the article is "New links between dreams and psychosis could revive dream therapy in psychiatry" July 2009 Exclusive: Loughner Friend Explains Alleged Gunman's Grudge Against Giffords | Mother Jones

[Puffin]

I think there was something not right with him in the first place.

[mikeac]

I think there was something not right with him in the first place. Same here. The only way you can become /more/ insane because of lucid dreaming is if you were already insane before.

[kookyinc]

This is analogous to saying that, of a group of 2000 people using computers, one uses his computer to crack into secure documents belonging to Organization X, and thus computers are dangerous. It's ridiculous to suggest that LDing causes psychopathy-- if it did, there would be a lot more weird stuff on DV other than the entirety of the Inner Sanctum and Beyond Dreaming (ok, that was a bit cold on my part. Sorry ). Obviously, this guy had some issues to begin with (Time mentions schizophrenia). Lucid dreaming probably didn't help, but it's not an activity to be pursued by the unstable. You can LD, but you shouldn't if you're neurotic, just like you can eat sugar, but you shouldn't if you're diabetic. I don't know what to think of Time for this article, but I have some idea. I don't think this was intentional, just the product of pure, concentrated ignorance and stupidity. Why not include information from an article that apparently was skimmed at most. The delightful quote-mine in the Time article can be extended to the entire paragraph, revealing someting less sinister about LDing: Lucid dreaming – when you are aware you are dreaming – is a hybrid state between sleeping and being awake. It creates distinct patterns of electrical activity in the brain that have similarities to the patterns made by psychotic conditions such as schizophrenia. [Time uses this previous bit ONLY] Confirming links between lucid dreaming and psychotic conditions offers potential for new therapeutic routes based on understanding how healthy dreaming differs from the unstable states associated with neurological and psychiatric disorders. Here's a working link: ESF Article In conclusion, fk you, modern mass media for being ignorant @$$-holes who don't understand how to conduct research in an intelligent fashion. That's why I don't subscribe to you. Support indie reporters. I think that's about it. I'm going to go watch the news and yell at the people in the flashing box now.

[The Cusp]

Hmmm... did that guy ever come onto Dreamviews? If he was obsessed with it as they say, he would have been sure to google it at some point, and he must have come across dreamviews. Could this guy be a member that we all know? Anybody been missing from the forums this past week?

[ThomasGrey]

Jared Loughner will have no disciples. That’s what the dream told me. See my blog, if you want to know.

[Caradon]

Jared Loughner will have no disciples. That’s what the dream told me. See my blog, if you want to know.

[ThomasGrey]

I dreamed I was at the shooting. It brought up a world I had forgotten. I'm trying to make sense of it. I'm supposed to find others. My blog is at blogspot. It's called Whispers and Shadows. This system won't let me post a link yet. I hope that helps.

[Narcissist]

I came across this thread while searching for potentially negative side-effects that can come as a result of lucid dreaming. This is an area where very few in the lucid dreaming community have put a disclaimer for those that may not be mentally stable. Let me give you an example. If I were to endorse the consumption of psychoactive mushrooms as a means to expand the mind, I would definitely include a disclaimer to warn those who are mentally unstable (knowingly or not) of the potentially negative psychological effects. While a majority of people would be able to handle the experience just fine, it can have seriously negative consequences on some people. For instance, it could trigger paranoid schizophrenia and nearly ruin somebody's life. It's easy to say "oh, they had something wrong with them in the first place," but often times the individual in question is unaware of this until it's too late (you don't know your schizophrenic until you start having schizophrenic episodes). It's one thing to know that something may trigger hidden psychological issues and willingly do it anyways; it's another thing to be completely unaware of the possibility. I found very little on the internet about the possible negative side effects of lucid dreaming, however I could see the line between dreams and reality getting blurred for certain individuals (perhaps to the point of triggering serious psychotic episodes? I don't know but would like to find out). The responsible thing to do would be to provide a disclaimer when endorsing lucid dreaming.

[Baron Samedi]

Hmmm... did that guy ever come onto Dreamviews? If he was obsessed with it as they say, he would have been sure to google it at some point, and he must have come across dreamviews. Could this guy be a member that we all know? Anybody been missing from the forums this past week? Yes. Me. DAMN YOU, THE CUSP, DAMN YOU!

[louie54]

Well... this is just fucking perfect. This author obviously hasn't done very good research. All you have to do is Google "lucid dreaming" and you get Dream Views, which is a site full of us lucid dreamers that are not crazy. Is it really that hard to Google or Wikipedia it? And supposedly we relive the delusion by writing it in our journal? I'm sorry but Time Magazine must have some real incompetent people writing for them. Hmmm... did that guy ever come onto Dreamviews? If he was obsessed with it as they say, he would have been sure to google it at some point, and he must have come across dreamviews. Could this guy be a member that we all know? Anybody been missing from the forums this past week? This was brought up in another thread. There is a person on here named Jared whose profile says he loves guns/ammo. He only posted twice back in October though and he's from Tennessee so I doubt its him. Here's his profile anyway: View Profile: Jared5995 - Dreamviews Lucid Dreaming Community & Resource If he is obsessed with lucid dreaming, I don't doubt he came across Dream Views.