Thread: Dangers of lucid dreaming? (A response to the Arizona shooting)

So it seems that the shooter from Arizona had a favorite activity, namely conscious dreaming. In one of his clips on youtube he said:

This video is my introduction to you! My favorite activity is conscience dreaming, the greatest inspiration for my political business information. Some of you don't dream -sadly.

This made me wonder. If this is all true, could lucidity have a confusing effect on people who are already psychologically vulnerable? The first lucid experience can be really shocking, I guess. Though I generally hear very profound, spiritual and positive experiences from having lucid dreams, I never come across these kind of horrible stories linked to lucid dreaming in one way or another. Of course these are all matters of speculation in this case.

Also, maybe he posted on this forum? Link: http://www.dreamviews.com/f20/hey-im-jared-105756/
(Sorry if that is not correct.)

I pray for the people that are effected by this tragedy.

I just read up on the story since we haven't heard anything about it in Europe (the world seems a bit preoccupied with animals falling out of the sky everywhere). Don't know if it's him here on the forums but "Firearms/Weaponry" is listed in the interests...

Anyway. I think the answer to your question depends on your definition of "psychologically vulnerable". I think that it can, indeed, have quite the disturbing effect in the case of people already having problems with knowing what's real and what's not...But those people shouldn't be busy with things like lucid dreaming, they should (imho) be kept somewhere safe, indoors, and nowhere near TV's and internet. I read in the article of the Guardian that "the 22-year-old army reject had posted rambling videos online in which he made statements about mind control, Swat teams and the gold standard." So it could be a case of messing up recognition between reality and dreams.

Then again, for 97%ish something of the world's population LD's are perfectly safe , and the other 3% has no reason at all to even know what it is.
This is indeed a matter of speculation ofcourse, but: my 2 cents

EDIT: I've been reading up a bit more, including some of the ramblings he posted on the internet, and this dude was clearly completely insane.

Originally Posted by Ayanizz

Then again, for 97%ish something of the world's population LD's are perfectly safe , and the other 3% has no reason at all to even know what it is.
This is indeed a matter of speculation ofcourse, but: my 2 cents

Where did you even get these statistics from....

Originally Posted by Somii

Where did you even get these statistics from....

That's where the -ish comes in I don't know what the percentage of insane people is in this world, and no doubt it's gonna be more than 3%, what this point was meant to say was that perfectly sane people can LD all they want. If you're already insane, bad things can (and with high probability will) happen.

Originally Posted by onelucid

Shame on you ABC for misrepresenting lucid dreaming.:

"It takes a high degree of awareness to lucid dream. An insane person is not likely to be able to LD with any frequency, if at all. Dr. LaBerge (not Lebarge) is an accomplished scientist and would never claim that lucid dreamers can speak a real foreign language that they do not know in their dreams. That's hearsay, or at worst, made up. Presuming that Dr. Schwartz is not also being misrepresented by ABC, it is obvious that he is a not a clear thinker. I would not suggest that he try lucid dreaming, as is it doubtful that he could become cognizant enough to achieve lucidity."

Jared Lee Loughner and Lucid Dreams: Did Alleged Arizona Shooter Think he was Dreaming During the Attack? - ABC News

Mass media... The last place where you can find the truth and reliablity...

Thanks for the effort

It's quite normal that people look for easy explanation of many events like in case of this tragedy. But, please, keep in mind, you can't blame one factor for this. And we have to highlight very hard - it has nothing to do with LD. I'm sure that guy had serious problems for a very long time - personality problems, relationships, difficult childhood (cliche, i know ), lost a job, maybe some brain damage(?), some life trauma etc. ? I don't know exactly but don't try to connect the dots in the wrong way

Your (our!) perception is skewed in the direction of dreams and LD because it's our hobby, way of life, path to enlightenment and as a result we may see everything through the "lenses of dreams".

But don't worry, no one will become a psycho because of LD's

PS: Check background of some criminals and see what's their hobby I don't think someone will blame e.g. origami for those crimes

According to LaBerge in Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, "... we are confident that for people no more than 'normally neurotic,' lucid dreaming is completely harmless." IMO, LDing will do nothing to harm the already sane mind.

In all honesty after reading deeper on the subject I can't see any link between this and lucid dreaming, it sounds like he could see some of the corruption in the world and wanted to stop it - but he was misled and went the wrong way about it. It sounds like he was a clever guy just with the wrong idea about how to change things in the world, shame really, all too often the smartest people, or the people who want to make changes in the world think violence is the only option.

Originally Posted by Royaltramp

In all honesty after reading deeper on the subject I can't see any link between this and lucid dreaming, it sounds like he could see some of the corruption in the world and wanted to stop it - but he was misled and went the wrong way about it. It sounds like he was a clever guy just with the wrong idea about how to change things in the world, shame really, all too often the smartest people, or the people who want to make changes in the world think violence is the only option.

Could you please point out to me where you got the idea that he seems like a clever guy? Because, honestly, all I see is the rants of a madman...

This is/was the introduction on his youtube channel:

Hello, my name is Jared Lee Loughner.

This video is my introduction to you! My favorite activity is conscience dreaming; the greatest inspiration for my political business information. Some of you don't dream — sadly.

Firstly, the current government officials are in power for their currency, but I'm informing you for your new currency! If you're treasuerer of a new money system, then you're responsible for the distributing of a new currency. We now know — the treasurer for a new money system, is the distributor of the new currency. As a result, the people approve a new money system which is promising new information that's accurate, and we truly believe in a new currency. Above all, you have your new currency, listener?

Secondly, my hope - is for you to be literate! If you're literate in English grammar, then you comprehend English grammar. The majority of poeple, who reside in District 8, are illiterate — hilarious. I don't control your English grammar structure, but you control your English grammar structure.

Thirdly, I know who's listening: Government Officials, and the People. Nearly all the people, who don't know this accurate information of a new currency, aren't aware of mind control and brainwash methods. If I have my civil rights, then this message wouldn't have happen.

In conclusion, my ambition - is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I'm conscience dreaming! Thank you!

Either I'm seeing this wrong, or there really isn't much sense to make out of this.

Originally Posted by Ayanizz

Could you please point out to me where you got the idea that he seems like a clever guy? Because, honestly, all I see is the rants of a madman...

This is/was the introduction on his youtube channel:



Either I'm seeing this wrong, or there really isn't much sense to make out of this.

Weird, I seem to remember already posting this reply, guess I closed the tab by mistake and never did. Yeah after reading through that I completely retract my statement haha, I was basing what I said on a couple of quotes I read, which weren't crazy like those - the news site I read completely forgot to include that whole section hah.

These people are why limbo exists..

Originally Posted by r2d2651

These people are why limbo exists..

I hope you are joking.......Inception is fiction and only should ever be viewed as fiction.

As far as lucid dreaming being a possible cause of the shooting. Why not see how many people who have shot someone drove SUVs? There is no reason a natural thing like lucid dreaming should ever be blamed for someone being a murderer.

Originally Posted by Zebrah

I hope you are joking.......Inception is fiction and only should ever be viewed as fiction.

As far as lucid dreaming being a possible cause of the shooting. Why not see how many people who have shot someone drove SUVs? There is no reason a natural thing like lucid dreaming should ever be blamed for someone being a murderer.

Of course I'm joking...

Originally Posted by r2d2651

Of course I'm joking...

Please don't make posts the could misinform members... It really doesn't help to further the discussion. And for members coming here because of inception, it could be misleading.

Originally Posted by Zebrah

Please don't make posts the could misinform members... It really doesn't help to further the discussion. And for members coming here because of inception, it could be misleading.

Originally Posted by r2d2651

Of course I'm joking...

Originally Posted by r2d2651

These people are why limbo exists..

Originally Posted by Zebrah

I hope you are joking.......Inception is fiction and only should ever be viewed as fiction.

En zebrah lighten up. It was a joke. This forum isn't that stiff... Hopefully.

That's like telling someone from beyond draming to not post there ideas. (although I do tell the BD people to ad "in my opinion"

Please don't take this as being rude but if you think about it the statements quoted above did not help the OP at all. Thus is in the same category as r2d2651.

Yet again I'm trying to put this in perspective, in a non rude way.

It's okay to go a bit off topic and make little jokes

Well, for someone who already had problems to begin with, anything can be dangerous for them, so I would say, yes.

Vast Oceans, you have to realize, this guy was a somewhat chronic pot-smoker (yeah yeah, i know, they're supposed to be mellow and all), he always seemed to be in his own world according to friends/relatives, and always kept to himself, as well as showing signs of mental instability. This guy needed help. I don't even feel the need to read his link on conscious dreaming, because I don't see anyway how lucid dreaming can prompt you to do such a thing.

Following the increasingly violent political climate of the U.S. (i.e. Sarah Palin claiming that victim Gifford's seat in the Senate was "being targeted", language such as that, as well as a certain Republican asking people to join him in shooting off a M-16 rifle in opposition) especially in Arizona, combined with this guys poor mental stability led to something like this. I honestly do not think there is a danger to lucid dreaming besides perhaps not sleeping perfectly well that night, but that is only because I am ignorant of the actual studies done by persons such as Mr. LaBerge. So I'm not even sure on that one.

But lucid dreaming could not have caused this. Hope this clears things up.

I dunno if it's wise to single this guy Jared5995 as Jared Loughner the shooter! Is the name the only thing you're going on? From what I can see, this Jared5995 lives in Fayetteville, Tennessee- whereas the shooter is from Tucson, Arizona.

i find it hilarious that the media are trying to turn this into a slur on lucid dreaming. they really are desperate to cling to their old ways of control and cant be having anyone break out of their prison box eh?

rip to all those affected.

Originally Posted by whiterain

i find it hilarious that the media are trying to turn this into a slur on lucid dreaming. they really are desperate to cling to their old ways of control and cant be having anyone break out of their prison box eh?

Are they actually doing that? I don't think I've seen LDing linked to this anywhere but here, insofar.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Are they actually doing that? I don't think I've seen LDing linked to this anywhere but here, insofar.

yeah but to be fair it was only one news report that ive heard of. even tried to lump david icke and his ideas in with it for some reason

it was some guy on msnbc from the 'Southern Poverty Law Center's "Intelligence Project". whatever that is

vid here

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...82343#40982787

I like how he goes on about being literate and then uses hyphens in all the wrong places and says, "If I have my civil rights, then this message wouldn't have happen."

Lucid dreaming had nothing to do with any of this. I mean, come on. It's not a mind-altering experience. Lucid dreaming is not a drug. It's an inherent ability of the brain. His worldly views were not somehow warped by dreaming. Whatever mental instabilities he had would have manifested themselves regardless of his hobbies; certain activities can speed up the process, for sure, but they are not the cause.

If he was a whacky guy, he was a whacky guy, and he had always been a whacky guy.

Thanks for all replies.

I do not think either that LD has caused any of this behaviour. There must be some inherent incoherence in this individual prior to all this.

But it's the first time I see lucid dreaming being linked to such a message.

And the media will surely highlight the things that aren't worth being highlighted/

The only reason I'd find lucid dreaming a danger is if you have lucid nightmares. You know it's there but you can't control it, and if your already insane, it might push you off the edge.

LMAO. They cant blame this on lucid dreaming...
If it caused someone to lose touch with reality, and not be able to tell the difference, then yes, maybe... but you'd have to be nuts to start with.

This is almost as bad as blaming the columbine incident on Marylin Manson...

(BTW, OP, your profile pic wins.)