Thread: best type of meditation for lucid induction?

i notice a lot of mentions of meditation on here to help dreaming skills develop but then i realized they never specify what kind to do.

there are maaaaaaany types of meditation, from sitting with your legs in a pretzel, holding your breath and focusing on your "third eye" to walking around and thinking only of your feet. the question i'm asking is which one of these are ones that help lucid dream induction and/or dream recall?

i do mindfulness of breathing meditation and i try to practice mindfulness all day. this is where you sit and pay close attention to your breathing and let all other thoughts float passed. you don't block them out but just let them go. like if you were watching a really cool movie and you thought about what time you had to work the next day you would drop that thought to return your attention to the movie because it's cool and what you're doing at the time. with your breath though it's quite boring so returning your attention to it is a conscious effort and therefore trains your attention span and, if you believe in the mythology of it, exposes your consciousness to ultimate reality which is a very good thing.

it seems to me that if you could turn your attention from the usual thoughts about random things, passing interests, problems, etc. to exactly what's going on around you that this would carry into dreams and you would be paying so close attention that you would become lucid when you noticed the weirdness. the type of all day attention for me comes from the training i do in sitting meditation an then transfers to daily life. basically think about how your mind is when your out for a walk. you think about whatever pops into your mind. now think about how you think when you are running from something or your car is swerving in the rain or some other scary event. you are usually focused on the present moment. this is the kind of focus i'm talking about, of course without the stress of some scary event.

anyway what does everyone think?

When I was told to meditate to help with WILDs, I was told nothing special, just sit there with your eyes closed and try and get a blank mind. Don't force any thoughts, just let things happen naturally but try and just get a blank mind. Eventually you'll enter a trance state which you want to maintain. Its being in this trance state that helps with lucid dreaming because its a thin line between being aware and being asleep.

It takes a few sessions to get into, but after a few sessions is started to feel quite different than just sitting with your eyes closed.

interesting! i've had soooooooo much instruction from books and from buddhist nuns and monks and have gotten a very very specific definition of meditation technique for my type of meditation because i always felt that i wanted to know exactly what i was supposed to be doing and what not to do. i'm really impressed that you were able to get good results with so little instruction. that's really cool! i think there's something to be said for self teaching with trial and error inside of a loose frame work. sometimes you get boxed in by other people's ideas.

Originally Posted by sleepyzac

it seems to me that if you could turn your attention from the usual thoughts about random things, passing interests, problems, etc. to exactly what's going on around you that this would carry into dreams

Originally Posted by Rathez

Its being in this trance state that helps with lucid dreaming because its a thin line between being aware and being asleep.

These two quotes sum up the function of meditation to benefit lucidity. For me, the best type of meditation to benefit lucidity is simply to sit still and clear the mind of thought and remain aware of the changes in consciousness. Like Zac said, this kind of meditation will train you not to hang on to fleeting thoughts and be able to take in all of the information all around you, to be more mindful of your surroundings instead of daydreaming all the time. This will increase vividness of dreams as this awareness of everyday detail will become habitual. The other benefit of this mindful meditation is that, given time, you will be able to experience the shift into theta, delta, and yes, even the dream stage with a lot of skill. Many advanced yogis in India and Tibet don't sleep traditionally, they meditate upright all night long. They let themselves fall through the stages of sleep so that they can rest, but remain in single pointed meditation all night. Of course this level of skill isn't necessary to benefit you, but if you learn to experience the shift of consciousness while relatively awake and meditating, it will be much easier to stay in control while drifting into sleep. It can feel quite different indeed.

alright, thanx. yeah i've read books about the tibetan dream yogis. super cool skill! really impressive stuff. i've tried but always failed and found dream yoga to rigorous. largely in part due to previous success with regular methods like MILD, WILD, etc. so when a tougher method doesn't yeild quick results and the easier ones do i get frustrated. but i practice meditation as a separate thing from lucid dream work and i figure i could combine it with current techniques and not do the whole super dedicated dream yoga stuff. but yeah i like your idea that you don't have to go sooo deep into it but can still benefit from simple awareness. any specific methods you find to work well?

Awareness meditation (mindfulness) helped me the most for lucid dreaming with DILDs/MILDs. the mindfulness will carry over into your dreams, and if you can meditate for a good while right before sleep, than even better. Relaxation excercises will help with the trance-like state most people try to get into when they WILD. Otherwise I haven't seen any, but I'm sure there are lots of old mantras and meditations for lucid dreaming. The only mantra I know is for dream recall, it's supposed to be used before sleep, or right when you wake up and are trying to remember dreams. RAOM - GAOM (Rah-om Gah-om). I've heard people say they get lucid much easier when they used this mantra, but awareness will probably help the most.

Theres also a meditation for pregognition and precognitive dreams.

cool yeah i think awareness meditation is pretty similar to mindfulness right? i read that a type of hindu yogic breathing called "victorious breath" is supposed to stimulate the throat chakra which controls dreams...
what exactly do you do for awareness meditation?

There was only one time I started meditating, or consitently trying I should say. After a few nights of trying just before bed, I started to notice 3-dimensional aspects to the blackness behind my eyes. Sounds confusing, but it started to feel like I was sitting in an empty black area with black light moving in angles and creating depth. I also managed one time to open my 3rd eye for a split second. I think I dosed off for a bit meditating (I was sitting against a wall with pillows) ,but I could see my computer monitor perfectly. It wasn't some flat image type thought, but actually felt like I was sitting at my desk looking at the monitor turned off; it was quite interesting.

After doing this as well I experienced an event where my dream glitched out and all my DCs and I fell into a black pit. Eventually it was just me floating in this black space with grid lines in a sphere shape around me (it was pretty big, it looked like a flat wall from where I was looking). Apparently it was some sort of void zone where you are aware, but not dreaming. That was an experience and a half.

that is freak'n awesome! typically you sit on the floor with your back straight and nothing supporting you, this keeps you awake. it sounds like you fell asleep and basically WILD'ed. there is something to be said for this! sitting up and letting yourself fall asleep while in a meditative state could be a great induction method. thanx! the 3-d darkness sounds amazing, i want to try to see if that happens to me, i will be pillow-wall meditating at some point!

Originally Posted by sleepyzac

that is freak'n awesome! typically you sit on the floor with your back straight and nothing supporting you, this keeps you awake. it sounds like you fell asleep and basically WILD'ed. there is something to be said for this! sitting up and letting yourself fall asleep while in a meditative state could be a great induction method. thanx! the 3-d darkness sounds amazing, i want to try to see if that happens to me, i will be pillow-wall meditating at some point!

The person who was guiding my meditation practice for the week I tried it said that the depth in the darkness was something he experienced before he was starting to basically lucid dream in his meditation sessions (off the top of my head I can't remember exactly, but he would go on ~4 hour meditation binges in mornings, where he would visit his world and people he created).

He said the fact I experienced that so early meant I was progressing quite fast. I already have a natural ability to shut thoughts off in my mind however; shutting thoughts off as I meditated is quite effortless for me after about 5 minutes of calming down.

Heres a practice exercise. Take a pop can or something and look at it for a while. Then, close your eyes and see how long you can keep that image in your mind before it disappears / other thoughts start impeding on your current thought. Most people can't go beyond 2-3 seconds before another thought plunges into their mind or they get distracted. I personally have always been able to hold that thought for quite a while. After meditation practice however, you should be able to focus on one thought or none easily.

"Hidden observer technique" will help you have a WILD, but it takes practice. You basically have to observe your thoughts as oyu fall asleep...don't let them take you away but just witness your thoughts..notice that they are there.

Zen meditation is what this is i believe.

yeah i've kind of felt that way before. normally you are your thoughts but when doing this you observe them from almost a third party perspective. super weird to think of but when you do it it feels great.

The awareness meditation I was speaking about is probably the same as the mindfulness meditation you're thinking of. Typical relaxation and meditation scene, and simply focus. Focusing on your breathing, and let your mind quiet. Don't force it quiet, if you have any thoughts, acknowledge them, and let them pass. Make sure to stay focused though. Alternatively you could use mantras, but I never learned which mantras would be good for awareness in particular . Once you are done meditating (Its been found that it works better to meditate a few times a day for about 15 minutes until you have a more quieted mind) look around the room. Look where you are, and look at it as if it is all different. Have you ever really noticed the design of ___, or the intricacy of your floor, or how various items are assembled? You normally just know it's there, just believe it absent mindedly, and passively, but be aware of it. 'There is a difference between knowledge and awareness. You know that you are reading this, but are you aware that you are sitting in a chair, in your room, and that you are holding a mouse, and you have the keyboard in front of you?"

It's important to note that it is supposed to help you with awareness, not substitute for it. The true goal of dream yoga and meditation is to be aware at all times, even though it takes "super-efforts". Take that awareness you get from the meditation excercise, and hold it all day every day, as much as you can. You'll notice each day becomes easier. It's not a passive process, it's active, it's being vigilant. That's not to say you must if you want to do the meditation. But if you do make sure you are aware, and vigilant, you'll notice it's not a rigorous obstacle, but a calming experience, of really feeling the now, this moment, the holy moment. When I practice awareness it feels as if the calmness and solitude of meditation is constant, even if problems are apparent.