Emotions and their relationship with dreams

[Threeofeight]

In what way do emotions affect our nightime, specifically the content of our dreams? well, I have my own ideas now I am just very interested to first see what you may come up with and I will specify my personal views after a little roundabout of ideas.

[Threeofeight]

Thought it might be more fun to see what you guys can come up with.. If you are reading this. Take some time off. Use my lazy-time and think about ur dreams and how ur emotions may shape them. OR will in the future. The fate entire universe depends on it.

[dolphin]

Emotions do not affect the content of our dreams. The content of our dreams at any given point of time is based on our perception at that point in time. Our perception at any point in time is based on the state of our attention, our memory, and our expectations. Our emotion can change with changes in our perception, but the changes in our perception precedes any change in emotion. Only our perception affects of the content of our dreams. Our emotions themselves do not affect our perception. Therefore, our emotions do not directly affect the content of our dreams. That said, I suppose our emotions can indirectly affect our dreams due to how we perceive said emotions during the dream. But we can perceive emotions in any number of ways so therefore said perception of emotions can affect the content of the dream in any number of ways. However, it is always going to be the change in perception rather than the change of emotion that affects the content of the dream.

[Occipitalred]

Emotions do not affect the content of our dreams. The content of our dreams at any given point of time is based on our perception at that point in time. Our perception at any point in time is based on the state of our attention, our memory, and our expectations. Our emotion can change with changes in our perception, but the changes in our perception precedes any change in emotion. Only our perception affects of the content of our dreams. Our emotions themselves do not affect our perception. Therefore, our emotions do not directly affect the content of our dreams. That said, I suppose our emotions can indirectly affect our dreams due to how we perceive said emotions during the dream. But we can perceive emotions in any number of ways so therefore said perception of emotions can affect the content of the dream in any number of ways. However, it is always going to be the change in perception rather than the change of emotion that affects the content of the dream. I like your post dolphin. I think it describes the state of affairs quite well. Except, every time you say emotions do not affect the content of our dreams, I just can't fully accept that. You do say that once we perceive and have a change of emotion, it can affect the content of the dream so perhaps I will just be arguing semantics. Here it goes... What is the point of saying "emotions do not affect the content of our dreams" if it only truly applies to the first instant of dream, and every other instant can be affected by the emotions that arose from the original perception? Then, the statement is no longer true because emotions do (in my opinion) affect the content of our dreams. For example, you would not say that causality does not exist simply because the first effect in the universe did not have a cause (if that's what you believe). It would still make much sense to say that causality is present. Why is perception a result of 1. attention, 2. memory, 3. expectation specifically? (in the context of dreams) 1. Attention, sure, that makes sense, it's what you focus on within what you could perceive. 2. Memory, sure, because there are no true stimuli, surely the learned schema will be exploited. 3. Expectations, I know everyone loves this one, but I don't like it. Expectation is simply a prediction of what is most likely, it could be put under memory, part of the learned schema, yet, it's just a case of probability. As much as you can expect barking to result from the perception of a dog, what follows might as well be biting, a cat or anything else. The possibilities are endless because such is the nature of dreams, there are no bounds. Schemas are connected to a lot of other schemas, and it is not necessarily the strongest path that will be followed at any moment because then our dreams would be a lot more predictable. But forget this. Given that I find expectation to be such a weak contributor to perception in dreams, I wonder why emotions are not part of the list of things that contribute to perception at any moment. If in a dream, there could be no cause to expect danger, but fear if you feel fear, I think the fear will prevail over the expectation of no danger. One may say that expectations are what influence emotions and not the other way around. There are many theories on which comes first, emotion or cognition, and it is generally taught that both can affect the other. Now, I am thinking... Is emotion itself not perceived? Would you then say that emotion cannot be a contributor of the content of dreams because they are the content of dreams on equal or similar terms as the physical stimuli perceptions? In that case, I can see myself agreeing a little bit more. That is, emotions are as likely to affect the dream as the content of the dream itself. Also, I guess I can also see myself agreeing with expectation, as surely expecting something increases the probability of it happening. Why am I always so stubborn about it, lol. It is not infallible but neither perception or memory guarantee a perfect prediction of dream content at a given time either. TL;DR: I argued, rambled, and ended up agreeing. Good night

[Threeofeight]

It's like perception is what initially grabs ur attention, then it passes through a mental barrier before it reaches into our emotion. And then we deal with whatever is on our hands. Like a dream. But if what you say is true and how we perceive our emotion actually affects our dream that is essential, given the task we give to ourselves as LDers of actually changing the content of our dream. This can be a useful asset to start with during waking hours.

[ghuntington]

Hi, Well my take s quite different than those mentioned above... In a book written by Jane Roberts and Seth "Seth, Dreams and Projections of Consciousness" it states the following definitions... Energy is the basis of the universe. Ideas are mental transformations of energy by an entity into physical reality. Idea constructions are transformations of ideas into physical reality. Space is where our own idea constructions do not exist in the physical universe. The physical body is the material construction of the entity’s idea of itself under the properties of matter. The individual is the part of the entity or whole self of which we are conscious in daily life. It is that part of the whole self which we are able to express or make “real” through our idea constructions on a physical level. The subconscious is the threshold of an idea’s emergence into the individual conscious mind. It connects the entity and the individual. Personality is the individual’s overall responses to ideas received and constructed. It represents the emotional coloration of the individual’s ideas and constructions at any given “time.” Emotions are the driving force that propel ideas into constructions. Instinct is the minimum ability for idea constructions necessary for physical survival. Learning is the potential for constructing new idea complexes from existing ideas. Idea complexes are groups of ideas formed together like building blocks to form more complicated constructions in physical reality. Communication is the interchange of ideas by entities on the energy nonphysical level. Action is idea in motion. The senses are channels of projection by which ideas are projected outward to create the world of appearances. Environment is the overall idea constructions with which an individual surrounds himself. Physical time is the apparent lapse between the emergence of an idea in the physical universe (as a construction) and its replacement by another. The past is the memory of ideas that were but are no longer physical constructions. The present is the apparent point of any idea’s emergence into physical reality. The future is the apparent lapse between the disappearance of one idea construction and its replacement by another in physical reality. Psychological time is the apparent lapse between the conception of ideas. Aging is the effect upon an idea construction of the properties of matter of which the construction is composed. Growth is the formation of an idea construction toward its fullest possible materialization following the properties of matter. Sleep is the entity’s relative rest from idea construction except the minimum necessary for physical survival. The physical universe is the sum of individual idea constructions. Memory is the ghost image of “past” idea constructions. Each evolutionary change is preceded and caused by a new idea. As the idea is in the process of being constructed onto the physical plane, it prepares the material world for its own actuality and creates the prerequisite conditions. Evolution is energy’s movement toward conscious expression in the physical universe, but it is basically nonphysical. A species at any given time is the materialization of the inner images or ideas of its individual members, each of whom forms their own idea constructions. At no point can we actually say that one construction vanishes and another takes its place, but artificially we adopt certain points as past, present and future, for convenience. At some point, we agree that the physical construction ceases to be one thing and becomes another, but, actually, it still contains elements of the “past” construction and is already becoming the “next” one. Though the construction of an idea seems to disappear physically, the idea which it represents still exists. Sleep is the entity’s rest from physical idea construction. Only enough energy is used to keep the personal image construction in existence. The entity withdraws into basic energy realms and is comparatively free from time since idea construction is at a minimum level. The entity is in contact with other entities at a subconscious area. After death, the entity will have its ghost images (memories) at its command, though their apparent sequence will no longer apply. Memories are properties of the subconscious energy entity and, as such, are indestructible (though they may be unavailable to the individual under various circumstances). The next plane of existence will involve further training in energy use and manipulation, since the energy of which the entity is composed is self-generating and always seeking more complicated form and awareness. Each material particle is an idea construction formed by the individualized bits of energy that compose it. Each entity perceives only his own constructions on a physical level. Because all constructions are more or less faithful reproductions in matter of the same basic ideas (since all individuals are, generally speaking, on the same level in this plane), then they agree sufficiently in space, time and degree so that the world of appearances has coherence and relative predictability. Regards, Guy

[DreamyBear]

Emotions and their relationship with dreams I think this statement alone explains it all really. So to clarify my take on that, it goes something like this: Emotions is the colors that dreams are made in and out of. Emotions is dreams, and dreams is emotions. The relationship is mutual between emotions and dreams, inorder for dreams to be created at all.

[Sageous]

^^ I'm not so sure about that. I like Dolphin's description above, which really says it all. Emotions are reactions to given stimuli, and not stimuli unto themselves (until, of course, after an initial emotional reaction has begun to redefine a moment, in dreaming and in waking life). The dream itself is created before your emotions have a chance to influence and change the dream that your unconscious provided. So in my mind emotions have little to do with the initial creation of dream content; they only come into play after a dreamer's been presented with content. An exception to this might be that if we go to sleep under heavy influence of emotion (say, depression), and content reflects those feelings... still, even then I would say that the content still precedes the emotions of the moment.

[Threeofeight]

Well guys, so great too see you all chime in like that. Especially breaking down Dolphin's motives which is an engaging post. Thank you. I just woke up with nightmares and felt 2groggy to think straight but I have another point my coffee is telling me to make. I'm not giving up so easily Emotions are reactions to given stimuli, and not stimuli unto themselves (until, of course, after an initial emotional reaction has begun to redefine a moment, in dreaming and in waking life). The dream itself is created before your emotions have a chance to influence and change the dream that your unconscious provided. So in my mind emotions have little to do with the initial creation of dream content; they only come into play after a dreamer's been presented with content. An exception to this might be that if we go to sleep under heavy influence of emotion (say, depression), and content reflects those feelings... still, even then I would say that the content still precedes the emotions of the moment. Ok, I want to agree. But I can not stop myself from thinking that this is putting 2 much emphasis on the physical/visual/sensual etc. content of the dream. These are my thoughts exactly: Now, I am thinking... Is emotion itself not perceived? Would you then say that emotion cannot be a contributor of the content of dreams because they are the content of dreams on equal or similar terms as the physical stimuli perceptions? A great example is PTSS notoriously affecting dreams. While I must agree that some physical/sensual moment (the trauma) comes before the PTSS. It is probably the emotion that drives the person to constantly dream about it. Here the emotion is definetely preceding the dream and preventing other dreams from happening; Just because it preoccupies the mind so heavily. If that person transforms his/her emotions then it's dream life is transformed, no?.. - Maybe I should say that I'm influenced by certain yoga-texts also that deal with emotions and non-physical origins. - Peace out for now. Hope you enjoyed thanks for participating this thread already. Sorry for missing some texts and info. Little tired.

[Sageous]

...A great example is PTSS notoriously affecting dreams. While I must agree that some physical/sensual moment (the trauma) comes before the PTSS. It is probably the emotion that drives the person to constantly dream about it. Here the emotion is definetely preceding the dream and preventing other dreams from happening; Just because it preoccupies the mind so heavily. If that person transforms his/her emotions then it's dream life is transformed, no?.. Well... no. I'm not sure if this is a great example, Threeofeight. PTSD is a disorder that arises from the experience of a specific event, and I for one think that it is the result of a heavily bruised mind reaching into its primitive processes to prevent you from having this experience again (sort of like a deer, say, will never go near a certain cave where it once discovered, painfully, a bear lives). So in a sense I guess PTSD is essentially a traumatized mind being more concerned with preventing an event form reoccurring than it is in healing itself. It does this by hurling memories of that moment into your consciousness every chance it gets, with one clear opportunity being during dreams; and the painful emotions associated with PTSD are are result of perceiving those memories. So, for me, the roots of PTSD lie in memory, and not emotions. The emotions that accompany PTSD are a result of raw memories being presented relentlessly by a traumatized mind, which then cause an emotional reaction. I could be wrong, but I doubt that the emotions of PTSD emerge on their own first, to then summon or create imagery of the traumatic memories. If this is the case, then even in PTSD it is the perception of memory/dream imagery that ignites emotion, and not the other way around. Emotions, in the end, are a reaction to stimuli, and not a driver of stimuli. This may be the case even after the dream is underway and your emotions have been affected, because your unchecked emotions are playing right along with the plot of the dream. Now, this doesn't mean that emotion cannot be a powerful tool for control in LD'ing, because if you are able to stabilize your reaction to dream stimuli you will stabilize the content itself: basically, remaining calm regardless of what your dreaming mind is offering up for your perception and subsequent emotional reaction might lead your dreaming mind to make adjustments to content in order to accommodate your shifting desires.... but the content is still arriving first!

[Threeofeight]

So, for me, the roots of PTSD lie in memory, and not emotions. The emotions that accompany PTSD are a result of raw memories being presented relentlessly by a traumatized mind, which then cause an emotional reaction. I could be wrong, but I doubt that the emotions of PTSD emerge on their own first, to then summon or create imagery of the traumatic memories. It occurs to me, memory is also a very valid tool to use in order to gauche what your mind may conjure up. Perhaps expectation plays a role in conjuring up images as well. A very rational way of forming dreams and images. Might be of much more use then merely looking at emotions. Aya, such is the direction my mind leans

[DreamyBear]

Emotions and their relationship with dreams Perception comes first, yes. But I dont see how that is important to the actual question. It's obvious that there needs to be perception for anything to be at all. The question is stil about emotions and their relationship with dreams. If there are no relationship between them, then ok. Nothing more to discuss really, unless we are going off topic from there. And it is nothing wrong with that I think, that's how I see it. If the question was for example: "How do we know what a dream is? Then it's a whole other ball game I think. And perception would be The important aspect to discuss then. Anyhow, interesting discussion!

[DreamyBear]

Emotions, in the end, are a reaction to stimuli, and not a driver of stimuli. I think I got a good sense of what you mean with this. And maybe emotions are not the driver who knows? But for me at least, this is like trying to decide if it was the right or the left foot that is responsible of a straight walk. Which one of them was it that moved first, and does it matter in the end if it was known?

[Sageous]

I think I got a good sense of what you mean with this. And maybe emotions are not the driver who knows? But for me at least, this is like trying to decide if it was the right or the left foot that is responsible of a straight walk. Which one of them was it that moved first, and does it matter in the end if it was known? Well, if you're thinking in terms of lucidly navigating your dreams, I think it is very helpful to understand, during a LD, something about the nature, the metaphysics, of what you are encountering in your dreamworld. If you intrinsically know that the rush of emotion you are experiencing has more to do with You, with your conscious presence in the dream, than it does with the dream imagery as presented and perceived, you can have a better chance of getting the emotion -- and perhaps the dream imagery -- under control. For instance, it's a lot easier to quell your panic at an approaching dragon if you understand both that the dragon is not real and that your reaction to that dragon is happening in your conscious mind, where it can easily be relaxed (as opposed to assuming that the panic is part of the dream, and virtually unavoidable). To stretch your walking analogy, it isn't so much deciding which foot is initiating your pace as it is in knowing that your legs are the real drivers of walking, with your feet just sort of reacting to their movement.

[Threeofeight]

Oh man your use of imagery is flattering Indeed it is rewarding to look at metaphysics and slice the two halves. This has been a rewarding engagement..

[DreamyBear]

Well, if you're thinking in terms of lucidly navigating your dreams No that was not what I where thinking of. But I see how you explain the practical aspects of lucid dreaming, and even if that is not what Im thinking of, it was an interesting read. It usually is when you say something Sageous. To stretch your walking analogy, it isn't so much deciding which foot is initiating your pace as it is in knowing that your legs are the real drivers of walking, with your feet just sort of reacting to their movement. Dont forget about the armswing, and the leaning spine! No, there is no end to this analogy really I know.. But what I thought was important to point out, is that at least I cant know for sure. If it is the created emotions that are "driving" to the continual movement of the reaction to stimuli. Or if it is the other way around. Another example in the direction that I like to point, is for example: Why do people give money to beggars? Is it the movement itself? Or the emotion behind the movement? maybe both? I think it fundamentally depends on what we want to try to understand, or our way of understand things that creates any viewpoint we hold true for ourselfs, and that is of course nothing more right or wrong in percieving a certain viewpoint. The "driver" will drive us anywhere anyways.

[oneironautics]

last night i had a very black mood, was depressed and angry and frusterated, usually i can take myself out of the blackness very easily , but once in awhile i get stuck for a day or so ,, So my dreams had cannibals and , alot of stress and problems, :-( not sure what that means but anyway... Robbert Waggoner: Emotions energize the area of focus, if you want to get somewhere in a hurry, just add some emotional energy to it. Emotions shortens the distance between the experience and the experiencer between the dreamer and the desired.

[Threeofeight]

last night i had a very black mood, was depressed and angry and frusterated, usually i can take myself out of the blackness very easily , but once in awhile i get stuck for a day or so ,, So my dreams had cannibals and , alot of stress and problems, :-( not sure what that means but anyway... Robbert Waggoner: Emotions energize the area of focus, if you want to get somewhere in a hurry, just add some emotional energy to it. Emotions shortens the distance between the experience and the experiencer between the dreamer and the desired. Yeaa Thanks for the novelty!! The way I see it emotions form the fuel for creative solutions or very much so destructing patterns. It can go either way

[oneironautics]

I was gonna say batteries, maybe thats what they were talking about in matrix , turning humans into batteries :-o

[Threeofeight]

My emotion when you said that 960.jpg The machines are the real production machines

[Threeofeight]

To clarify, I would agree with Sageous's point of view here, the dragon speaks to the emotion but the dream is not the emotion itself. This isn't what I said in the first place but still important to understand. That leaves us with a very real perception of emotions in dreams and I would say (i.e. fear from a nightmare) stays with you for a reasonably long time after the dream. I will argue again that until that fear is fixed (be it during sleep or in case you startled awake from the dream during this gap between sleep) the nightmarish dreams will persist. I further extrapolate that emotions during the day will find their way in dreams. Perhaps as guiding mental force who seek to bid perspective on the emotion. Perhaps. I will advise if you manage to be in the dream state to focus inwardly on this emotion before doing anything at all

[RickM]

I further extrapolate that emotions during the day will find their way in dreams. Good point! Carl Jung came up with the term “day residue” to explain the appearance of mental images in dreams from the previous day’s activities. Some hypothesize, a simple mental purge of meaningless information. In a similar fashion, the mind can conduct comparable housekeeping with emotions recently experienced. In this case, our brains fabricate a dreamscape around the feelings to be dealt with making the storyline secondary to the process itself. If movies and TV drama are doing their jobs correctly, one can experience a wide range of emotions in a short period of time helping to animate our nocturnal musings.

[Threeofeight]

As to creating dreams and emotional/desire. I've been playing video games non-stop for about a week now. And I ONLY dream of video games. Emotionally I seem very attached to this both in waking and in dream life. I'm attempting to use this as dream sign. But I get very tired at night and lose energy to consciously think of it.