Thread: Martial Arts

I took some martial arts classes years ago. It was just a friends father, who taught his kid and a few other of us. I am not sure what kind of martial arts it was, since it wasn't to formal of a class and was probably a bit of a mix.

Basically we did warm ups, jumping jacks pushups, the normal stuff. Followed by sets of the basic punches and kicks. Then he showed us the more advanced moves, which were either reviews of stuff we did before or new stuff and we would spar practicing what we learned that day. We also did kata's once in a while, after learning a bunch of moves to put it all together.

We didn't do any grappling at all. Since the basic idea, is that if someone tries to grab you, you block it and break their arm or you hit them in the temple and hopefully knock them out. So in a way if your doing serious grappling you already lost.

We practice a lot with trying to defend ourself against multiple attackers too. Which my be why the teacher always warned people, if you beat someone up they will come back with their friends and get you. That is why if you fight someone, you break their arm or leg and send them to the hospital so they can't come back.

Definitely not a nice way to view thing, but fighting is serious.

Precisely, plus if someone has the intent to harm you, you best be making sure that you make them unable to harm you. Breaking something vital or perhaps putting them out in some way is just how it is sometimes, for your own safety.

Martial arts shouldn't be for fighting, it's for self defense. If I found out one of my students just beat someone up, I'd throw their ass out of my class.

I practise Shotokan and Goju-ryu karate-- very different types.

Shotokan is the one I practise at a competitive level. Trainings generally start with warm ups. Warm ups are hard =\ You have to be flexible, powerful, fast.. everything really. What follows varies- but apart form days that are purely about fitness we generally focus on aspects of either kata or kumite. For kata we do a lot of intense stance work. Low, solid stances are not easily achieved. Also breathing, flight paths and timing are important (especially when in a team). For kumite and free sparring we mainly work on stamina and speed. We end with a warm down and the Dojo Kun:

HITOTSU! JINKANKU KANSEI ni TSUTOMURU KOTO
To Strive for Perfection of Character

HITOTSU! MAKOTO no MICHI o MAMORU KOTO
To Defend the Paths of Truth

HITOTSU! DORYOKU no SEISHIN o YASHINAU o KOTO
To Foster the Spirit of Effort

HITOTSU! REIGI o OMONZURU KOTO
To Honour the Principles of Etiquette

HITOTSU! KEKKI no YU o IMASHIMURU KOTO
To Guard Against Impetuous Courage

A lot of sessions are actually spent perfecting the basics.

Originally Posted by Alric

We didn't do any grappling at all. Since the basic idea, is that if someone tries to grab you, you block it and break their arm or you hit them in the temple and hopefully knock them out. So in a way if your doing serious grappling you already lost.

We practice a lot with trying to defend ourself against multiple attackers too. Which my be why the teacher always warned people, if you beat someone up they will come back with their friends and get you. That is why if you fight someone, you break their arm or leg and send them to the hospital so they can't come back.

Originally Posted by Spenner

Precisely, plus if someone has the intent to harm you, you best be making sure that you make them unable to harm you. Breaking something vital or perhaps putting them out in some way is just how it is sometimes, for your own safety.

What form of martial arts do you two practice? Never have I heard such foolish advice. Your instructors, if what you are saying is true, are poorly trained. Seriously, no sensie would advocate such senseless violence. In extreme, I mean very very extreme, cases yes-- but everyday tussles? Honestly, break something vital?

I do TaeKwonDo, and im trying to get on the National Team. As of right now my classes contain me teaching the up and coming national team contenders, and then my own training regiment. I work out basically 24/7 and i am always on a certain diet. But National Team opens up a lot of things.

I dont do tkd so i can fight people. I do it for the sport, as in so i can go to the olympics. (that is of course the greatest dream). If we do catch anyone using tkd to throw kids around, we throw them out too.

There is no such thing as an everyday tussle. Which is why he taught it that way. Though in a real fight I probably wouldn't use martial art moves. I would take out my keys and attempt to stab the person in the eye, or throat. And if a person grabs me, I would stomp on their foot or if their a guy crush their balls. You don't need martial arts to fight dirty, and fighting dirty is the most effective way to stop someone.

Children get into fights all the time, adults don't get into fights. If you are an adult, you don't fight fairly. You don't fight with honor, or with respect. You do the maximum damage possible then leave. At least that is my philosophy.

If someone attacks me, I am going to assume they are trying to kill me, and react in appropriate manner.

There is martial arts as a sports, and there is martial arts for self defense. There is a difference between the two.

Originally Posted by Alric

There is no such thing as an everyday tussle.

Yes there is. Conflicts aren't all the same. To think so is very naive.

Originally Posted by Alric

Though in a real fight I probably wouldn't use martial art moves. I would take out my keys and attempt to stab the person in the eye, or throat.

If someone unarmed were to attack you and you 'took out your keys and attempted to stab the person in the eye/ throat' that is excessive force. Frankly, if you were to do so, and god forbid succeed, you should and probably would be incarcerated.

Originally Posted by Alric

You don't need martial arts to fight dirty, and fighting dirty is the most effective way to stop someone.

The above shows you know nothing of martial arts or common sense.

Originally Posted by Alric

There is martial arts as a sports, and there is martial arts for self defense. There is a difference between the two.

?
I seriously hope this that was a joke. For your sake not mine.

EDIT: Tell me, what form of martial arts do you practice?

Argggh. Honestly, I'm so sick of people and their extremist, sadistic practises and views tarnishing the good name of Martial Arts.

Fighting with martial arts is a lot better then fighting 'dirty'.

When you know martial arts you fight with common sense and skill, which is much more effective then someone who just scraps and is sloppy because they have no skill.

There is a difference so strong that it pains me to know that you may not see a difference between sport Martial Arts and Traditional Martial Arts.

Point fighting, aka tag, is nowhere close to an appropriate representation of a real life fighting situation. One hit does not end everything, and if you think you can end it with one punch then good for you, hope that you land that one punch, and good for you if you have nothing to follow it up with.

I'm not bashing sport fighting though, they're completely different things and I can't really say that the two are at all similar. There are different intentions to the fighters, different strategies, different weaknesses (dropping their hands and standing up on one leg and kicking multiple times with their leg still in the air? Pfft. That's laughable in a true fight, though for point sparring it's whatever will get you the points to win).

Anyhoo, I do Kungfu. And perhaps I didn't word that properly, Polilla what I meant was simply that if you're going to be very injured, raped, killed, etc, you do what you must to prevent them from doing so. Sometimes that may involve breaking their arm if the opportunity brings itself, choking, making the attacker unable to harm you. Obviously if someone throws a punch, you aren't able to just "block their punch break the arm and hit them in the temple." It is NOWHERE near that simple. People with the intent to harm typically don't want their arms to be grabbed, so one can expect a hell of a lot of resistance before getting a chance to break their arm.

I hope I cleared that up though, because really it is the practical way to think if you want to come out alive or uninjured. Of course you have to use your own discretion to say whether you're using excessive force or not, but for the time being, risking the excessive force is better than being killed.

Back to me doing Kungfu, I've been on the Canadian National Team twice now and have competed at the World's (I'm not sure many of the details, I just know it was a worldwide competition) and placed 2nd one year for my division and 3rd the next time in my division. I really don't personally enjoy fighting for sport, so I take no glory or pride in carrying these medals around. I don't do that to be snooty, not in the slightest, I just feel that I have FAR more potential to prove myself, in a real kickboxing match (that's what I do, full contact kickboxing, not point sparring. Far more fun for me ).

But yeah, it's all up to the mentality of the fighter to use what he/she has learned to react appropriately to a situation. That's why Martial Arts is great, getting to know solutions for limitless situations, and dealing with them properly, rather than in an irrational manner that may resort to "dirty fighting."

Some years ago i practised Wado-kai. We did all the traditonal stuff like katas and kumite. I fought in karate competitions, semi-contact competitions where you only go for points. I had been practising wado-kai for some years before my father joined a new "style" or what you call it.. i joined him too. I now do Kyusho Aiki Jutsu, where my father is the teacher. Kyusho aiki jutsu is basically self-defence.. Our training isnt only physical, we also focus on the mental stuff. We use pressure points and stuff like that, the style also includes "Chi" stuff.

Our training starts of with bowing and greeting.. Then a light warm up (warming up the joints).. Then we do all kinds of stuff. Kata, sparring, systema exercises and loads of self defence stuff.. We end the training with some tai chi thing, "Qi Gong".

And just a little quote from our grandmaster
"The best kind of self-defence is one hundred meters away"

Originally Posted by Alric

There is no such thing as an everyday tussle. Which is why he taught it that way. Though in a real fight I probably wouldn't use martial art moves. I would take out my keys and attempt to stab the person in the eye, or throat. And if a person grabs me, I would stomp on their foot or if their a guy crush their balls. You don't need martial arts to fight dirty, and fighting dirty is the most effective way to stop someone.

Children get into fights all the time, adults don't get into fights. If you are an adult, you don't fight fairly. You don't fight with honor, or with respect. You do the maximum damage possible then leave. At least that is my philosophy.

If someone attacks me, I am going to assume they are trying to kill me, and react in appropriate manner.

Are you serious?

So, basically, your reaction to some cocky little punk who would impulsively punch someone in the face would be to stab them in the throat, or remove one of their eyes?

It's this mentality that is fundamentally what's wrong with so many police forces. People get angry (or medicated, or drugged, etc), and they do some stupid shit, most definitely, but killing someone over an explicitly non-life-threatening situation shows cowardice, and a complete lack of self-control.

By the way (more on-topic), I've taken a few years of Karate, when I was younger. Also, a few weeks of Muay Thai - with some periodic, free-form training, on my own.

Umm yes. If some guy randomly walks up to me and tries to hit me in the face, I have no idea what their goal may be. If they are doing it because of drugs or medication that only makes it that much more dangerous. If someone randomly attacks you, it is very serious. They may in fact try to kill you. There is no way to know that if you go easy on them, they may take your head and slam it into the ground 30 times in a row.

If the person is just a cocky little punk then you just walk away, simple. If you attempt to leave a situation and a person attempts to violently keep you there, then all bets are off. You do anything you can to create an opening for you to leave the situation. If that involves stabbing them in the eye, then you do it.

If someone backs me into a corner where I can not escape and they attack me, their intention is clearly evil. So I have no problem with harming them in order to survive the attack.

You will almost never get in trouble with the law for harming someone if its self defense. And if you do, well going to jail for a few years is better than dying.

Umm yes. If some guy randomly walks up to me and tries to hit me in the face, I have no idea what their goal may be. If they are doing it because of drugs or medication that only makes it that much more dangerous. If someone randomly attacks you, it is very serious. They may in fact try to kill you. There is no way to know that if you go easy on them, they may take your head and slam it into the ground 30 times in a row.

If the person is just a cocky little punk then you just walk away, simple. If you attempt to leave a situation and a person attempts to violently keep you there, then all bets are off. You do anything you can to create an opening for you to leave the situation. If that involves stabbing them in the eye, then you do it.

If someone backs me into a corner where I can not escape and they attack me, their intention is clearly evil. So I have no problem with harming them in order to survive the attack.

You will almost never get in trouble with the law for harming someone if its self defense. And if you do, well going to jail for a few years is better than dying.

Alric... i kinda agree with you. But i only agree with you on the thing about serious fighting. Yes, on the street your life might be in danger. But the idea of stabbing peoples eyeballs is kinda extreme.. Of course if you were happy slapped by a 14 year old breezer kid you wouldnt stab him in the eyes, but if you were attacked by loads of people who wanted to take your life, only a stupid person or a "true master" would go easy on them.. (i know the "true master" sounded stupid, but should i have used "Zen master"? )

But if you were being mugged by some random person and you instinctively go for your keys and try to stab the mugger in his eyes... then its pretty sick..

It is sick, who wants to stab someone in the eye or grab another persons balls? That is basic self defense 101 though. The human weak points are the eyes, the throat, the groin and the foot(the instep and the toes). There are a few other good weak spots too. The basic idea is to hit one of them as fast and as hard as possible, then run off while they scream in pain.

If you know martial arts it adds a few other moves as well, and helps you in hitting the weak points.

This all assumes you tried to get away from the person but they keep coming. Or if you are being mugged, you give the person your wallet and they are still attacking. At that point, the only way to escape is to do really hurt them.

ahh.. i just got the impression of you plugging peoples eyes out from your first post My bad

Originally Posted by Alric

Umm yes. If some guy randomly walks up to me and tries to hit me in the face, I have no idea what their goal may be. If they are doing it because of drugs or medication that only makes it that much more dangerous. If someone randomly attacks you, it is very serious. They may in fact try to kill you. There is no way to know that if you go easy on them, they may take your head and slam it into the ground 30 times in a row.

If the person is just a cocky little punk then you just walk away, simple. If you attempt to leave a situation and a person attempts to violently keep you there, then all bets are off. You do anything you can to create an opening for you to leave the situation. If that involves stabbing them in the eye, then you do it.

If someone backs me into a corner where I can not escape and they attack me, their intention is clearly evil. So I have no problem with harming them in order to survive the attack.

You will almost never get in trouble with the law for harming someone if its self defense. And if you do, well going to jail for a few years is better than dying.

If I get into an argument with some random person, and it ends up getting physical, my first assumption would not be that this person is trying to literally KILL me. Your assessment that "adults don't get into fights" is not realistic at all. Many adults are just as prone to fighting as children are. There is such a thing as excessive force. I, personally, have seen situations diffused by little more than subduing a person with a lock. Yes, there are situations where I would use deadly force against someone, but it wouldn't be just any everyday prick with a chip on his shoulder. Someone's impulse to cause you pain is no intrinsic indicator that they are trying to kill you, and I feel confident enough in myself to try to neutralize a threat without immediately aiming to kill that person, a disable them for life.

That's just my philosophy, though. You're obviously entitled to your own.

You shouldn't be getting into fights with people over arguements, and you shouldn't be hanging around with people who get that angry. If you do your due diligence to always avoid fights, or avoid being in positions to be attacked, you should be able to avoid nearly all fights.

Normally in situations like that people shove you or something. That is when it is time to walk or to run away. If a person is trying to chase you down however, to me that is no longer in the realm of just being upset.

People who try to chase you down deserve little sympathy. If they catch you it is pretty much a given they will beat you up and will pound on you while your on th ground, and possibly do permanent injury to you.

But depending on your own skill, they probably won't be able to beat you up. One or two unarmed guys isn't much of a threat to a well trained martial artist, so minimal force should be applied. I would only become vicious if there were more than two of them, or if it was not someone that I knew wasn't armed. Even then, a thug has no idea how to fight or defend themselves, one punch to the jaw in the right place will knock them unconscious every time, no need for permanent damage. And if it's just one guy with a knife, there is no need for it either, disarm them from a distance, throw them on the ground and run.

Originally Posted by Yoda9578

Even then, a thug has no idea how to fight or defend themselves, one punch to the jaw in the right place will knock them unconscious every time, no need for permanent damage. And if it's just one guy with a knife, there is no need for it either, disarm them from a distance, throw them on the ground and run.

You cannot assume that you will knock someone out with one punch at any time. Doing so will only end up leaving yourself open after you think you've hit the right spot. For your own sake, you can't tell yourself that you're going to walk out of the fight without getting hit. That's impractical. Even from a person with no experience- they can hit. They might be "bad" at it, but nevertheless someone can throw all of their strength into a punch and knock you out just as easily as you can to them.

And it would be foolish to try anything with a person who has a knife. You're acting as though it's easy to get rid of one and that you're not going to come out with a scratch or two- but the truth is you will get cut. Attempt to approach anyone with a knife and it's only right to assume so- the littlest of movements even close to the blade will hurt you, and hand placement close to the hand holding the knife allows them to bend towards your arm and cut you still. You have to imagine that the knife is some sort of orb that can hit you within a certain radius on wherever your hands may be. All in all, unless you have some serious training with knife disarming, don't even THINK about trying it, because you won't come out uncut, and anything remotely deep to an artery or tendon can mean serious damage. It's not worth the risk. In the case that you have to defend yourself against someone with a knife, you'll have to not go for the knife at all. Go for places like knees, groin, anything that would cringe them and allow you to run away, because even doubled over it's dangerous to approach them.

That's just how I see it, and I think it's right to say that it's sensible enough.

No, but hitting someone in the jaw will give them vertigo, regardless of if you knock them out or not. Unless they surprise you, a well training master should not be able to be hit by some thug. You should never go for the eyes or throat.

Without good and extensive training, you should always give into what a guy with a knife wants, but if you have the skills, a small knife is not much of a threat. Disarming someone is about redirection. Pull your wallet out, give it to them, when they take your wallet, then disarm them. I would not advise anyone under a 2nd degree blackbelt try a real disarm, but above that I would tell a student to go for it, then you can go to eyes and neck.

I think it's right to modestly assume that none of us are masters of any kind, therefore shouldn't be overconfident when assuming the outcome of a strike. Expect nothing. If you expect to shake up a person by hitting them in the jaw and they don't, that's going to distract you just enough to possibly allow it to take away your focus and get hit.

This also brings up my views of belts... see, I don't think a belt should symbolize anything but for the amount of time someone has trained. A yellow belt could destroy a black belt- all it takes is a lucky punch, or for the black belt to become overconfident. The measure of skill is to the individual, not to a generality within a belt division.

So basically, instead of giving a specific belt level, I'd say attempt disarming if and when you're ready. That could be tomorrow, that could be ten years from now. Whenever you have the mentality to stay relaxed and watch for what needs to be watched for, and to maintain an open mind to everything around you at the same time, you might as well be ready. These qualities could be found in a yellow belt just as easily as a black belt, it all depends on the individual willingness and how much they are willing to learn in the amount of time they've been training.

Obviously if its possible to avoid you avoid it at all costs. You don't play around with people who have knives and stuff. If you have no choice though, then you disarm.

I am not 'well trained' nor am I a very large person. So I am never going to assume I can win, against anyone. Though I am fairly confident that a display of overwhelming force will give me the chance to escape for any fight.

You really don't need to serious harm a person, you only need to create an opening so you can leave the situation.

Originally Posted by Alric

You really don't need to serious harm a person, you only need to create an opening so you can leave the situation.

Yeah, this for sure. It's very rare that you should have to really harm someone- perhaps if they're cooked up on something and have no pain tolerance or something like that then maybe choking them out would be logical if you had absolutely no way out.

But yeah, causing harm when it's not needed is unacceptable- and as a martial artist you should be able to use your discretion to decide whether or not to do something.

Years of traditional Taekwondo and Aikido training, with some Muay Thai.

In theory, there's a lot of viewpoints and arguing etc. I don't care much for it, in reality you've got muscle and bone (and possibly steel) coming at you and you better be good at redirecting that kinetic energy somewhere other than your body, and ensuring more of it doesn't follow.