Thread: F**k the Troops

Originally Posted by Xei

If it was conscientiousness which brought the Americans to Iraq, one wonders why they haven't done anything for the many other failed states which would need a fraction of the effort to sort out.

Through its actions the U.S. has probably put its citizens in greater danger, I'd say. Iraq had no interest in or means to attack the U.S.

Read my first post in the thread I posted. I addressed that a bunch of times because Wendy kept arguing stuff like it. You are arguing what I come across all the time, which is the idea that the war has been about a single thing. It has been about MANY things. Also, no matter what the U.S. government's intentions have been, it is still great that Iraq now has a democracy where the people actually have rights. No matter what the deal is, at least that aspect in the picture is something it seems like we should all agree is something great.

Afghanistan?

This isn't about the War. This is about the Troops and all the people who get pissed when people "disrespect" the troops.

It is awe strikingly dim of people to lack the capacity to understand why there would be such a lack of respect towards people who storm into other countries with gun, grenades, bombs etc and murder innocent civilians, sometimes by the thousands including woman and children so that the governments corporate leaders can earn an extra profit or screw over the country another way to make themselves richer and/or more powerful. In my opinion, there's no reason to pay respect to someone for doing this, above the common mutual respect which I would give any human being. Maybe when things start affecting people like you rather than just common citizens in other countries then you will understand and perhaps grow to lose your respect for them as well.



And UM... There have been around 850,000 (based on the most conservative estimates) deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan combined since coalition forces stormed the countries. You're trying to tell me all or most of these deaths are justified?

What about the Afghan cleric who was killed by NATO forces a few days ago?

He wasn't targeted for being an insurgent, he was driving his two sons somewhere and pulled off th road to let the troops pass and was killed as a result.

And that's just the most recent report. I can guarantee the same has happened countless times.


700,000 or so Iraqi civilians have been brutally murdered. There is NO WAY that even 1/5th of those people deserved it.

Yes, things are getting slightly better for the people there, but not fast enough and not cleanly. They will be in upheaval for many years after this.
And the occupation is not happening in ways that are worth the deaths of much more than 1,000,000 people by the time this is over.

Personally I find anyone who joins the army in order to protect the US to be very naive. Sure I respect people who think they are defending our country. I have a lot of respect for people who stand up to that ideal. I just don't think they are the brightest bulb in the box.

Originally Posted by Alric

Personally I find anyone who joins the army in order to protect the US to be very naive. Sure I respect people who think they are defending our country. I have a lot of respect for people who stand up to that ideal. I just don't think they are the brightest bulb in the box.

What of official positions?

You know, ones that require medical experience? University education?

Just wondering if you apply that prejudice to all uniforms or just infantry.

~

Originally Posted by Bearsy

This isn't about the War. This is about the Troops and all the people who get pissed when people "disrespect" the troops.

It is awe strikingly dim of people to lack the capacity to understand why there would be such a lack of respect towards people who storm into other countries with gun, grenades, bombs etc and murder innocent civilians, sometimes by the thousands including woman and children so that the governments corporate leaders can earn an extra profit or screw over the country another way to make themselves richer and/or more powerful. In my opinion, there's no reason to pay respect to someone for doing this, above the common mutual respect which I would give any human being. Maybe when things start affecting people like you rather than just common citizens in other countries then you will understand and perhaps grow to lose your respect for them as well.



And UM... There have been around 850,000 (based on the most conservative estimates) deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan combined since coalition forces stormed the countries. You're trying to tell me all or most of these deaths are justified?

What about the Afghan cleric who was killed by NATO forces a few days ago?

He wasn't targeted for being an insurgent, he was driving his two sons somewhere and pulled off th road to let the troops pass and was killed as a result.

And that's just the most recent report. I can guarantee the same has happened countless times.


700,000 or so Iraqi civilians have been brutally murdered. There is NO WAY that even 1/5th of those people deserved it.

Yes, things are getting slightly better for the people there, but not fast enough and not cleanly. They will be in upheaval for many years after this.
And the occupation is not happening in ways that are worth the deaths of much more than 1,000,000 people by the time this is over.

We are fighting an insurgency. The people we are killing are not military, but they are not innocent people either. We have precision weapons that work really well, and we do not target civilians in this war. However, the insurgents do. They are the ones killing civilians. They would continue to do so if we left. It is democracy they are trying to destroy.

Did you read my old post?

If your goal is to protect America and you join any part of the military, then yea you are very naive. If you join as a career or for education reasons or anything like that, I would personally say its a poor choice, but at least your not naive.

You have to be honest with yourself. If you don't mind being a mercenary, then by all means join the army. Just don't pretend you are defending our freedom, because you are not.

Originally Posted by Alric

If your goal is to protect America and you join any part of the military, then yea you are very naive. If you join as a career or for education reasons or anything like that, I would personally say its a poor choice, but at least your not naive.

You have to be honest with yourself. If you don't mind being a mercenary, then by all means join the army. Just don't pretend you are defending our freedom, because you are not.

Yeah, I remember your position. You assume that the long world history of invasions and take overs is automatically over and that we don't need a military. Do you have any idea how much take over there has been in history? It is jaw droppingly ridiculous how much there has been. What you learned about in history class only scratches the surface with the most important and interesting ones. Why do you think we are exempt from them?

I just think we need to be realistic. If you want to think in historical terms, all you have to do is look at what happens when countries try to cross the ocean to invade other countries, far, far away from their own. It just isn't practical in most cases, and it isn't close to being practical in our case.

No one is going to sail across the ocean to invade the US, it would be a logistical nightmare. We could cut our army by 80%, our navy and air force in half, and we would easily crush anyone attempting to invade us. Heck, half the world could try to invade us and we would still crush them into the ground.

Besides, we are not even talking about our defense. We are talking about sending troops half way around the world. It is totally impossible for a country like iran or iraq to invade the US. That isn't even on the table. No one thinks it is possible. We are talking about terrorists attacks. And since when did a 80 million dollar bomber, ever stop a terrorist attack?

Originally Posted by Bearsy

This isn't about the War. This is about the Troops and all the people who get pissed when people "disrespect" the troops.

It is awe strikingly dim of people to lack the capacity to understand why there would be such a lack of respect towards people who storm into other countries with gun, grenades, bombs etc and murder innocent civilians, sometimes by the thousands including woman and children so that the governments corporate leaders can earn an extra profit or screw over the country another way to make themselves richer and/or more powerful. In my opinion, there's no reason to pay respect to someone for doing this, above the common mutual respect which I would give any human being. Maybe when things start affecting people like you rather than just common citizens in other countries then you will understand and perhaps grow to lose your respect for them as well.



And UM... There have been around 850,000 (based on the most conservative estimates) deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan combined since coalition forces stormed the countries. You're trying to tell me all or most of these deaths are justified?

What about the Afghan cleric who was killed by NATO forces a few days ago?

He wasn't targeted for being an insurgent, he was driving his two sons somewhere and pulled off th road to let the troops pass and was killed as a result.

And that's just the most recent report. I can guarantee the same has happened countless times.


700,000 or so Iraqi civilians have been brutally murdered. There is NO WAY that even 1/5th of those people deserved it.

Yes, things are getting slightly better for the people there, but not fast enough and not cleanly. They will be in upheaval for many years after this.
And the occupation is not happening in ways that are worth the deaths of much more than 1,000,000 people by the time this is over.

Because the troops have the choice of going or not. By all means, complain about the government, I completely agree about all of this, but it isn't the troops choice, it's the governments. The troops are just doing what they're told, they can't help it, it's their job. (They will be court marshaled for refusing to go, I hope you know.)