Thread: Copenhagen Summit and US Senate Climate Legislation

Originally Posted by Xei

I don't have any idea what you're talking about. You're saying you're opposed to rational scientific thought..?

I'm saying, the problems DeeryTheDeer mentioned are real, and people are starting to put them aside and thinking about whether it is a global warming, colding, or a fraud... Misdirection! It's a global shit here and now, and those dudes in Copenhagen should have done something about it, instead of being oil lobbysts' bitches as usual.

Let me put it this way, you don't even have to be a scientist to figure out we are constantly poisoned, just go to China and take a breath.

What I think is sad is that we need to tell the world that our use of petrol may
cause serious long term environmental damage in order to get them to use
something cleaner. I don't know if anyone has realized this, but a lot of the
byproducts of burning petrol are toxic to us. It browns the horizon in the cities
(a daily sight for me) and makes the air smell wrong. The fact that it's not
healthy should be reason enough to divert our efforts into developing new fuel
sources, especially considering that our need for fuel will continue to grow as
our industry does worldwide.

Originally Posted by Invader

What I think is sad is that we need to tell the world that our use of petrol may
cause serious long term environmental damage in order to get them to use
something cleaner. I don't know if anyone has realized this, but a lot of the
byproducts of burning petrol are toxic to us. It browns the horizon in the cities
(a daily sight for me) and makes the air smell wrong. The fact that it's not
healthy should be reason enough to divert our efforts into developing new fuel
sources, especially considering that our need for fuel will continue to grow as
our industry does worldwide.

.

climate change or not, we're destroying the environment. who else could do that besides people?

all the debate is pretty much a waste. sorry, but i'd like to grow old and still see nature instead of an ever developing, suffocating network of roads, concrete, and so forth. i don't care if al gore is 'right' or not.

So you'd rather have no roads?

Originally Posted by Xei

So you'd rather have no roads?

I'd rather we didn't have roads, but rather used teleportation.

False Dilemma. Do not distort his meaning.

Originally Posted by Cygnus

ever developing, suffocating network of roads, concrete, and so forth.

Originally Posted by cygnus

climate change or not, we're destroying the environment. who else could do that besides people?

The elements and forces of nature that created us have that power.

False Dilemma. Do not distort his meaning.

Well if that was his meaning then he was implying that some roads is ok but more roads is not.

Please use logic.

I merely pointed out the part of the sentence you missed. Had I spelled it out
for you I'd have felt that I was insulting your intelligence.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The elements and forces of nature that created us have that power.

yes, there are natural disasters. land is split by tectonic shifts, mountains are raised and worn down. climate change occurs naturally. the continents have come together as one and split up again many times.

to equate anthropogenic destruction of nature with any of these things is completely missing the point. you could also say that while a person can adjust the thermostat in their house, the forces of nature bring about a new season.

our species has a long history of causing species extinctions and degrading the environment in some way, but the ways in which we now relate to our world are vastly different from how they were only a couple centuries ago.

so when you combine a utilitarian, materialistic worldview with capitalism, technology and population growth, you have something that degrades not only the environment but the human experience at a very fundamental level.

of course you can say, "would you rather not have technology, an increased life expectancy, or roads?"

to have a balanced application of our potential as a species might mean acknowledging the weight of an unsustainable way of life, the benefits of man-made elements, and the costs to our physical, mental, emotional and spiritual health.

we are far from anything balanced.

Originally Posted by cygnus

our species has a long history of causing species extinctions and degrading the environment in some way, but the ways in which we now relate to our world are vastly different from how they were only a couple centuries ago.

so when you combine a utilitarian, materialistic worldview with capitalism, technology and population growth, you have something that degrades not only the environment but the human experience at a very fundamental level.

What wonderful nonsense. Earth has experienced 5 mass extinctions effectively eliminating 97% of the species...how many of those were actually caused by humans? In fact how many of those even had mammals in them? The dodo bird dies and suddenly the human race is the cause of extinction? Really?

Concerning the fact that you don't find meaning in life due to your motif of drowning materialism does not a fortiori mean that others don't find meaning and have insightful, moving life experiences. In fact, I argue that such experiences are encouraged, easily realized, or are only existent because of the interests of capital intense labor. There are those who find meaning in labor but it is my belief that many find joy in libation. Libation is not possible under feudalism nor under primitive economies.

juroara, you basically took the thoughts i was working with and expanded them nicely

Originally Posted by Laughing Man

A libation could also mean a good that brings about relaxation or a jolly environment. Yes I like the modern. I find it strange though that you consider the modern 'wonderful nonsense' while you sit in front of a computer and make such asinine claims. It is time you merged theory with practice. Unplug the computer, go be free in the wild. I wish you well on your primitivist lifestyle.

you missed the whole point i was making.

Originally Posted by cygnus

when you combine a utilitarian, materialistic worldview with capitalism, technology and population growth, you have something that degrades not only the environment but the human experience at a very fundamental level.

of course you can say, "would you rather not have technology, an increased life expectancy, or roads?"

to have a balanced application of our potential as a species might mean acknowledging the weight of an unsustainable way of life, the benefits of man-made elements, and the costs to our physical, mental, emotional and spiritual health.

Uh but I don't live in China.

And life expectancies have doubled in the industrial age. You're being paranoid.

What's 'global shit'? What are we supposed to do about 'global shit' if we don't know if it's 'cooling or warming'?