Thread: Peace on Earth

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

What wars have ever been fought between two democracies? I think there might have been like one before electricity was discovered or something.

The solution: Democratize the world. Liberate every nation and put all dictators and other totalitarian regimes in a big garage disposal. It will be the end of wars between nations. Of course, it will take war to get there, but it will be very much worth it.

UM, seriously. I don't understand why this is the only garbage you seem to swallow. Do you really buy in to the 'war is peace' crap? Sometimes I get the feeling that you've cast yourself knowingly as the political devil's advocate.

What wars have been fought between two communist states? None? Okay; lets force communism on the rest of the world.

Honestly, why do you only speak in propaganda when talking about this stuff?
Are you aware that the chinese occupation of Tibet also claims to be a 'liberation' from religious oppression?

You know, I was going to respond to your second post in a more thorough way pointing out where exactly you were wrong, but I found a web document that outlines this entire argument for both of us. Notice it starts out by stating the motivation for creating the document:

I've witnessed this debate on Usenet several times, and it always follows the same pattern:

Somebody casually brings up the old factoid about how no two democracies have ever gone to war with one another.
Somebody jumps in and lists a dozen or so wars which have been fought between democracies.
Somebody else points out that those countries weren't democratic, not really.
Everybody gets into arguments over who was or was not democratic.
The argument fizzles out except for two guys continuing to argue over whether the American Civil War was about slavery.

Maybeeee if more women were in power, and the men who want to fight locked away in dungeons somewhere, there would be no more wars. I'm just sayin.'

I teach at a middle school. Why do I always see boys fighting... and (almost) never girls? Why do boys think it's somehow okay to fight? Ohhhh the joys.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Maybeeee if more women were in power, and the men who want to fight locked away in dungeons somewhere, there would be no more wars. I'm just sayin.'

I teach at a middle school. Why do I always see boys fighting... and (almost) never girls? Why do boys think it's somehow okay to fight? Ohhhh the joys.

When women are falling behind in the world, you're falling over yourself to move the goalposts for them. When men fall behind in the world and start to degenerate into neanderthals, as is occuring at an exponentially increasing pace - due in no small part to your feminist cronies taking every opportunity to hammer us - when that happens, instead of trying to help us, all you want to do is criticise us.

I hope the impressionable young male minds entrusted to your guidance do not take your egregious sexism to heart and have their already fragile self-worth further wounded by your vile female chauvinism.

On that last point, since you won't listen to me - here are some sage words from a fellow feminist, author Doris Lessing. Lessing states that “a “lazy and insidious culture had taken hold within feminism that reveled in flailing men” and that “it has become a kind of religion that you can’t criticise because then you become a traitor to the great cause, which I am not.” She recalls visiting a primary school where the female teacher made a comment in front of the class to the effect that all wars and most of society’s ills are the result of the Neanderthal desires and aspirations of men. Lessing recalls that the “little girls sat fat with complacency and conceit while the little boys sat there crumpled, apologising for their existence, thinking this was going to be the pattern of their lives”.

Now there’s one feminist with my respect, because she embraces the cause as purely a means of balancing rights between the sexes, not promoting one to supremacy at the expense of the other.

Originally Posted by paragon

When women are falling behind in the world, you're falling over yourself to move the goalposts for them. When men fall behind in the world and start to degenerate into neanderthals, as is occuring at an exponentially increasing pace - due in no small part to your feminist cronies taking every opportunity to hammer us - when that happens, instead of trying to help us, all you want to do is criticise us.

I hope the impressionable young male minds entrusted to your guidance do not take your egregious sexism to heart and have their already fragile self-worth further wounded by your vile female chauvinism.

I don't think the failings of the sport world's attempts to be gender nuetral can be compared to the political arena.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Maybeeee if more women were in power, and the men who want to fight locked away in dungeons somewhere, there would be no more wars. I'm just sayin.'

I teach at a middle school. Why do I always see boys fighting... and (almost) never girls? Why do boys think it's somehow okay to fight? Ohhhh the joys.

Like one comedian said. "If a woman were president there would be no war." *everyone claps* "Just severe negotians every 28 days"

There is a short story by Kurt Vonnegut called "2BR02B"

he says that a perfect world is an impossible idea. verying intrieging yet crushing depressing

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

UM, seriously. I don't understand why this is the only garbage you seem to swallow. Do you really buy in to the 'war is peace' crap? Sometimes I get the feeling that you've cast yourself knowingly as the political devil's advocate.

War is peace? Yeah, that was my point. Nice reading job.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

What wars have been fought between two communist states? None? Okay; lets force communism on the rest of the world.

The communist states were all Soviet satellites, so they were not separate entities. They were on the same team. Also, a lot of them collapsed. Plus, communist states were unjustifiable agressors against nations that they took over and oppressed. They were not exactly liberators. They were the problem. But you are not too worried that the new Germany and France are going to go to war, are you? Why not?

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Honestly, why do you only speak in propaganda when talking about this stuff?
Are you aware that the chinese occupation of Tibet also claims to be a 'liberation' from religious oppression?

Well then, all claimed liberations are therefore not liberations. You proved it by bringing up China.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

You know, I was going to respond to your second post in a more thorough way pointing out where exactly you were wrong, but I found a web document that outlines this entire argument for both of us. Notice it starts out by stating the motivation for creating the document:

That is what Xei posted, and I responded to it.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Maybeeee if more women were in power, and the men who want to fight locked away in dungeons somewhere, there would be no more wars. I'm just sayin.'

I teach at a middle school. Why do I always see boys fighting... and (almost) never girls? Why do boys think it's somehow okay to fight? Ohhhh the joys.

Woes, woes, hold your horses. I had to fight a crazy girl in junior high when she attacked me with a huge stick. I also watched a guy get his ass whipped by a really big, fat girl a few years earlier. (Okay, I know you were playing around, but I have a few amusing stories to tell.) Also, the only fight I ever had to get physically involved in when I was a teacher was between two girls. This crazy bitch from the streets who lived in a girls' home and was a former student of mine came to my class and acted like she was there to say hello to me. I asked her what was up, and she pointed to a girl in my class and said, "I'm gonna beat her ass." Before I could even get a syllable out, she sprinted at the girl, knocked her out of her desk, and started pounding on her. I had to lock the attacker's arms from behind and walk her out of the room. Girls used to talk about fighting all the time in my classes. I would overhear them talking about meeting gangs of other girls at Burger King and stuff to fight over the most ridiculous things.

And oh yeah... When I was in high school, I saw a major fight between two girls. There was talk all day about how they were supposed to meet in front of a bar and fight. They met in the parking lot, and they were surrounded by a few hundred people who were there to watch it. Word had traveled. There was an enormous crowd with a small space just big enough for two girls to argue and have a little bit of room to fight. They were pointing fingers and screaming at the same time. The only word I could make out was, "Bitch!" They probably said it thirty times each. The crowd was egging them on so bad, really wanting to see a fight. Finally, one of them reached at the other one, and they started hitting, pulling hair, and wrestling. It lasted about a minute, and there was no clear winner, but it was really entertaining for the people watching. That's messed up, but it's what happens.

Allright, thanks for reading my girl fight stories.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

War is peace? Yeah, that was my point.

Yeah I know.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

It will be the end of wars between nations. Of course, it will take war to get there...

This would be the greatest joke if I didn't know you were serious.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The communist states were all Soviet satellites, so they were not separate entities.

This is a list of the current Communist states, according to wikipedia.

People's Republic of China
Republic of Cuba
Democratic People's Republic of Korea
Lao People's Democratic Republic
Socialist Republic of Vietnam

Are you claiming that every country in this list is a soviet satellite?(despite the fact that russia is now a democracy)

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

But you are not too worried that the new Germany and France are going to go to war, are you? Why not?

Because France has nuclear bombs and Germany doesn't and both are heavily invested in each other's economies.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

That is what Xei posted, and I responded to it.

Actually, you didn't. You picked a few examples out of the list that you thought were easy targets and ignored the rest.

If even one of those wars listed was fought between two legitimate democracies, then you're claim is disproved.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Yeah I know.



This would be the greatest joke if I didn't know you were serious.

Sometimes it takes war to achieve peace. Have you heard of World War II? That does not mean war = peace.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

This is a list of the current Communist states, according to wikipedia.

People's Republic of China
Republic of Cuba
Democratic People's Republic of Korea
Lao People's Democratic Republic
Socialist Republic of Vietnam

Are you claiming that every country in this list is a soviet satellite?(despite the fact that russia is now a democracy)

I said they were. That stopped it for a long time. Now we are the only superpower and put more fear in them, so they are not so likely to try to take over anybody. That does not mean it is not in their nature. Communist dictators love to take over as much land as they can and oppress the people. It is what they do.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Because France has nuclear bombs and Germany doesn't and both are heavily invested in each other's economies.

That's all? But you did bring up another reason democracies don't go to war. It goes against their economic interests.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Actually, you didn't. You picked a few examples out of the list that you thought were easy targets and ignored the rest.

No, I said that the wars I am familiar with were not between real democracies and that the presence of George III England on that list ruines the credibility of the list. King George III... a democratic leader?????? Even you think that's absurd, don't you

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

If even one of those wars listed was fought between two legitimate democracies, then you're claim is disproved.

I said earlier there might be exceptions. I just don't know of any. Civilized, capitalistic, democratic countries where the people really and truly do have the ultimate power are not the kinds of countries that start wars with other countries of that description. If you find an exception, congratulations. Good luck with it.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Sometimes it takes war to achieve peace. Have you heard of World War II? That does not mean war = peace.

The cause of World War 2 was not an attempt to achieve peace.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I said they were. That stopped it for a long time. Now we are the only superpower and put more fear in them, so they are not so likely to try to take over anybody. That does not mean it is not in their nature. Communist dictators love to take over as much land as they can and oppress the people. It is what they do.

More vacuous propaganda

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

That's all? But you did bring up another reason democracies don't go to war. It goes against their economic interests.

Something that only democracies have, obviously.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

If you find an exception, congratulations. Good luck with it.

U.S. Invasion of Iraq?

Oh right, we're liberators, not oppressors. Just like China.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

The cause of World War 2 was not an attempt to achieve peace.

More vacuous propaganda. I guess saving the world was just a happenstance byproduct? The war was necessary to stop the Nazis. You can't deny that and still see yourself as an honest person.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

More vacuous propaganda.

Yeah, I am just fantacizing that the world's only superpower, who can blow up the world many times over and has a history of fighting totalitarian take over, scares little communist countries out of pulling take overs. What a crazy thought.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Something that only democracies have, obviously.

If it were their governmental nature to take over countries and own them, it would not be against their interests. Hmmmm, maybe that's the difference that led to so many totalitarian take overs in history?

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

U.S. Invasion of Iraq?

Oh right, we're liberators, not oppressors. Just like China.

Yeah, democracy/communism, tomato/tomato.