Thread: Peace on Earth

Originally Posted by DuB

That seems like pretty dubious causation. Care to elaborate a little?

There has been a totalitarian dickface leading at least one side in every war (between/among nations) there has ever been. Democracies only fight wars to take on totalitarian dickfaces. They don't ever have a need to do it to each other. There is no point in it, and there never has been (except for that maybe one example somebody here brought up recently, talking about something before electricity). Or is there something you know that I don't know on this?

The list of wars between/among nations in world history is very, very long. Name one case of when two democracies ever went to war against each other. IF you do come up with examples, what percentage of the wars do they make up?

Are you afraid that the United States might go to war with Canada? Are you afraid that France might go to war with Australia? Is there any kind of likelihood that modern Japan might go after England? Of course not. Democracies don't go to war with democracies.

Yes, the concept of Russia going to war with the United States this century is totally bizarre!

Oh wait.

Unfortuantely I suck at history, but there's a page about this exact thing here:

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/demowar.htm

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Or is there something you know that I don't know on this?

History has always been one of my least favorite subjects . I just wanted to point out a potential case of correlation-does-not-imply-causation. It seems like your response expanded pretty well on the correlational aspects, but I was hoping that you would elaborate on some causal mechanisms. Why does democracy lead to less war?

Originally Posted by DuB

History has always been one of my least favorite subjects . I just wanted to point out a potential case of correlation-does-not-imply-causation. It seems like your response expanded pretty well on the correlational aspects, but I was hoping that you would elaborate on some causal mechanisms. Why does democracy lead to less war?

Because democracies are not owned by a ruler or rulers. They just have short term leaders, chosen by the people, who who can be voted out of office. Democracy is not about government ownership, so it does not fuel the kinds of things Nazis, communists, and emporers have interests in. Plus, democracies are far more civilized than oppressed nations, so the citizens are better people and would not stand for such a thing.

There is at least one asshole in every fight, and democracies are too civilized and non-totalitarian to be such assholes.

Xei, Russia is not a real democracy. They only appear to be one on the surface. They are totalitarian as Hell. If you don't think so, go over there and speak against the government. Watch what happens, if you have time to catch a glimpse before they kill you. Good find on the list, though. I didn't realize this debate was that common. I definitely don't consider the wars on that list I know anything about to have involved real democracies, though. They even put King George III England on the list. WTF???? That is the totalitarian regime the U.S. was set up against. I am not familiar with a lot of those wars, but the presence of George III England on it really screws up its credibility. The Confederacy was not a democracy either. If half of your population is held in slavery, you don't have a democracy. I don't even consider the U.S. to have been a real democracy before the end of slavery. If there actually have been a few wars between real democracies, they have not been happening in modern times. Industrial civilization cleaned up a lot of the ignorance at the root of man's primitive habits.

Now you're just arbitrarily assinging democratic status to those countries which fit your rule. Many would argue that the US is just as undemocratic. It's totally arbitrary.

And anyway, why should we be looking to history? The history has been a period of constant economic progress and therefore relative political staility, as oil availability has increased constantly. That is over now. We are in a completely different climate. The oil is just going to go down and down and the events of the past will be no guidance for the resultant crisis.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Democracies only fight wars to take on totalitarian dickfaces.

Do you know why it's so difficult to become an active politician in a democratic government? It's because you have to compete with every other politician who wants the same position. If you fail to overcome the competition, it's because you didn't have the same drive for power that they did. You never actually get to know the real person you're voting into office. Even when dictators began their rise to power, it was essential for them to have the support of the people in order to reach their position. Everything is a popularity in contest for political leaders, it has nothing to do with their real morals or ethics, whether you're in the beginning stages of a forming communist country or in any democratic nation in the world. Because of the competitive nature of political status in a democracy, it ensures that only the most cunning/wealthy/deceptive people make it to the top, and those kinds of people certainly don't fight wars to make the world a happy place for people.

People that love power fight for more power, and in a capitalist-democracy, financial gain is power.

Resources are the crux of financial gain.

Wars are fought for resources.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

If it were their governmental nature to take over countries and own them, it would not be against their interests.

It's in the best interest of any capitalist nation to take over a non-allied country not to own them, but to strip them of their resources. In that respect we're not much different from those who want to own the countries anyways, since territory means land, and land is a resource.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Maybeeee if more women were in power, and the men who want to fight locked away in dungeons somewhere, there would be no more wars. I'm just sayin.'

I've always been of the opinion that women are much more cruel whenever they DO fight, but creating further separation in our species based on easy to recognize physical differences will do nothing in the way of solving social problems domestically or abroad. That's one reason the current model of modern industrial civilization isn't working out: The division and domination of life is not conducive to a peaceful atmosphere.