Thread: Entheogen: Awakening The Divine Within

Originally Posted by stonedape

I would really like to be positive about people, but it seems like the people just a little younger than me are extremely superficial. It's like they worship superficiality. It seems to me like most peoples minds are horribly out of shape. People spend lots of time text messaging and less time actually conversing(some people will even text someone while in the middle of a conversation with someone else). They also seem to be spending more time watching television and less time reading. To them the quality of information is irrelevant. As long as there is near constant transfer of the familiar, the popular. To them the connection is all about feeling connected, feeling the oneness of all things. They care very little about the end result, as long as they feel like a part of it. To them length is a negative quality because they can experience more connections if they are all short. They have their minds in so many places at once that they are really nowhere.

When the consciousness flows out of people in these sorts of patterns, it's hard for them to break out of the shell of the ego and actually enter into reality. Most people's interactions are not actually interactions with other people but interactions with a mental projection(a verbal hologram) of a person. When interactions are like this it is impossible for them to be meaningful. When people's relationships are based on meaningless interactions they are very unstable. Thus people look to gangs for stability.

They look to the Government or the Church or wherever they feel like they fit in. They look to groups that have a place in society. They find a place in that group and then they have a place in society. Then the sense of existential angst goes away and they can be happy citizens. I'm not trying to say that people ought to feel alienated, but the truth is that we live in a society based on alienation. We live in a society of red vs blue, black vs white. Your this, I'm that, and that's where we fit into society. People derive their sense of self from a verbal hologram that they've created, a collection of labels. In doing this they ignore what they actually are and miss life as it happens.

I'm not trying to say that these are preferences these people have or anything. It's more of a cultural phenomenon. I think it's the result of a last effort by the people in charge(white alpha males who take advantage of the human desire for oneness with reality) to stay in power. They will fall.

The problems of this world really do come down to misunderstanding that oneness, thinking that there is something you have to do in order to get it. INHERENT PERFECTION

Stonedape for fucking president of the world!
That's so true man. Especially the bit about having a conversation with a mental projection. I've known that, but you verbalised it beautifully.

I just want to add a thought here.

I don't think we are necessarily moving away from enlightenment or awakening. I mean, in the video they talked about how we viewed our environment differently before science etc. etc.
But I think that is just one way that we became awakened.
I think if people actually look at science now, as it's becoming more advanced, we are coming to the same conclusions as the shamans and ancient cultures did/do.

We've just gone from one extreme to another, but both can lead to awakening if you are open to it. And enlightenment if you have the balls to take it a step further and lose your ego.

That is, if we can stop people from being so materialistic (the worse side of science which was molested to big companies for profit).

If people learn about science and the new discoveries, it can definitely be beneficial to humankind.
But if we just go about looking at the corporate fucking of science (mobile phones, computers etc. etc.) that's about as far away from being awakened as you can get.
The downside is that we need these products to advance science because of the money system in our society.
The downside of pure spirituality is that it is molested by mainstream religion, which is equivalent to corporate science molestation.

Those interested in the ideas explored here, should watch the video on youtube called "culture is your operating system."
Terence articulates everything we're talking about now amazingly.

Originally Posted by imran_p

Those interested in the ideas explored here, should watch the video on youtube called "culture is your operating system."
Terence articulates everything we're talking about now amazingly.

Most probably have
Also since it was posted half a gazillion times.

Originally Posted by imran_p

Those interested in the ideas explored here, should watch the video on youtube called "culture is your operating system."
Terence articulates everything we're talking about now amazingly.

lol That video was the first thing I've heard by Terence McKenna. It was also the same thing that convinced me to take shrooms for the first time and part of the reason why I am so interested in language.

Originally Posted by dajo

Most probably have
Also since it was posted half a gazillion times.

hahaha yeah its true. But that video is so good. The first time I watched that video, it was like the screen was articulating feelings that I'd had for some time, a general discontent that I'd never been able to put into words. The ideas that Mckenna was espousing I already had, I just hadn't developed them.

Originally Posted by imran_p

hahaha yeah its true. But that video is so good. The first time I watched that video, it was like the screen was articulating feelings that I'd had for some time, a general discontent that I'd never been able to put into words. The ideas that Mckenna was espousing I already had, I just hadn't developed them.

Yeah I think that's one of the main things. Most people (here) have probably thought about these things but can't articulate them for shit.

best.

Thread.

Evar!!!

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I have a lot of experience, and that is most of the problem. I have enough experience that I should be fitting right into this conversation about how the rest of the world just hasn't woken up yet and touching god in a methyl molecule but in situations like these, all I feel is that I'm the only one that looks at the disparity between perception and reality and doesn't immediately forsake reality.

I want to believe Mckenna when he describes his framework for reality that has been revealed to him by the sentient (or at least communicative) psilocybin molecule but all I can think of is that his tone and inflection is awful similar to Charles Manson's when he's describing how the Beetles wrote all their albums to communicate with him about how he's the second coming of Christ and should be inciting black people to revolt by killing random celebrities. Why are McKenna's mushroom fueled revelations any more significant than Manson's acid fueled revelations?

McKenna's revelations are more significant than Manson's because he is clear, compassionate, and a genius, while Manson is psychopathic, delusional, etc.
Drugs has nothing to do with it. Leave the drugs out of it. Two people can also not do drugs and one person can be very inspirational and insightful while another can be crazy.

What makes revelations transcendental and/or mystical rather than 'just' hallucinations is what you get out of it. It has nothing to do with the drugs. Even a hallucination can be a transcendental experience if one gains knowledge of his self beyond his ego consciousness. Whether or not you are on drugs or hallucinating or not, if you are not in ego consciousness and are aware of it, that is a transcendental experience.

Part of me agrees with you.

Another part of me sees the primary effect of psychedelic drugs as 'reality building'. By this I mean that feeling of significance; the connections that appear to the user. This can lead one to believe that since they have witnessed these connections, that the connections have some sort of objective and independent reality that is separate from the perceptual perspective of 'tripping'. On the one hand, these connections are no more or less real than the ones that exist from a sober perspective; on the other, though, there is the tendency for some to walk away from these experiences with more layers of illusion rather than less. This adding of extra layers are often interpreted to be just as transcendental as the feeling of shedding layers.

For instance, McKenna's description of 'gnomes' is a perfect example. Although these jeweled self dribbling basketballs that are creating the world for us through their visible language are a very pretty picture, they are nothing more than a very eloquently described illusion. The fact that this illusion is no better or worse than the one of atoms, bosons and fermions does not change the fact that the nature of illusion is to obscure and not to clarify.

For the most part, I agree. You can go either way. You can either add illusion or subtract illusion. Whether with entheogens or without. I think that the biggest illusion McKenna had was his faith in psychedelics. He was quite dogmatic that psychedelics are the only way to expand your consciousness significantly. And he has good points as to why he feels that way. But I never heard him talk about lucid dreaming, for example. Drugs are a temporary experience that you come down from and the best you can get from it is trying to repeat the same experience again and again. You can visit the mountain top but you can't live there. I heard him talking about how meditation doesn't really work like drugs do. But I think he is missing the point of meditation. And maybe a little desensitized from the powerful experiences with hallucinogens.
However, as far as psychedelics go, I believe he is quite a shaman and is very experienced in navigating non-ordinary realms of mind. I have experienced these gnomes that create the worlds with words also, before I ever heard of Mr. McKenna. I have also encountered many other beings that exist while high on DMT. And yes, it may be purely hallucinations, but it seems just as real and even realer than real life, even afterwards. There is no way to judge, actually, because at the time of the experience one is in a space that is not a space in a timeless time that is the alpha and the omega and the inner is the outer and etc...

So the thing that is important is what you get from the experience, how it transforms you or makes you grow, because without those effects, an experience, no matter how amazing, is just another worldly experience.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Part of me agrees with you.

Another part of me sees the primary effect of psychedelic drugs as 'reality building'. By this I mean that feeling of significance; the connections that appear to the user. This can lead one to believe that since they have witnessed these connections, that the connections have some sort of objective and independent reality that is separate from the perceptual perspective of 'tripping'. On the one hand, these connections are no more or less real than the ones that exist from a sober perspective; on the other, though, there is the tendency for some to walk away from these experiences with more layers of illusion rather than less. This adding of extra layers are often interpreted to be just as transcendental as the feeling of shedding layers.

For instance, McKenna's description of 'gnomes' is a perfect example. Although these jeweled self dribbling basketballs that are creating the world for us through their visible language are a very pretty picture, they are nothing more than a very eloquently described illusion. The fact that this illusion is no better or worse than the one of atoms, bosons and fermions does not change the fact that the nature of illusion is to obscure and not to clarify.

This is true. It all depends on the person taking the drug. Whether they delude themselves more or wake up.

Originally Posted by dannon

Drugs are a temporary experience that you come down from and the best you can get from it is trying to repeat the same experience again and again.

This isn't true. As you said later in your pt, I'm not sure whether you were clarifying this sentence or not, but you have an experience and learn from it. It isn't forgotten afterward, so no, it isn't just temporary. The experience is, but the memory can last for as long as you live and so can what you learn from it.

I agree to quite an extend with dannon and xaqarias posts.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

But I never heard him talk about lucid dreaming, for example.

I heard him make a comment to a question about dreaming. And that was
that he did not dream very much, at least regularly. But when he would be
travelling for a few days, without any access to marijuana and with much
change in scenery, he would have very vivid dreams.

The way he said it lead me to believe that he wasn't really familiar with the
concept of lucid dreaming and did not see much significance in dreaming in
itself (which I am absolutely not sure about). But with this, as with his stance
on marijuana I would disagree with as well ("smoke a lot"), because if you
don't dream or remember any of them - to me it shows the opposite of
'opening up' and is a clear cut sign that one smokes too much.

So, yeah, I agree that he is sometimes a little dogmatic, but I remember
him giving a lecture on living mindfully and starting it with 'if you'd want
to live truly mindful, you should start by not attending any more of my talks'.
McKenna just is to be taken with a grain of salt - and I'm sure he'd agree.

Originally Posted by dajo

So, yeah, I agree that he is sometimes a little dogmatic, but I remember
him giving a lecture on living mindfully and starting it with 'if you'd want
to live truly mindful, you should start by not attending any more of my talks'.
McKenna just is to be taken with a grain of salt - and I'm sure he'd agree.

Yeah, he also was a very funny guy. And I dig the Transcendental Object at the End of Time. But I would say beyond time.

Charles Manson on the other hand, is crazy. So I don't think we should look to people who advocate or signify the use of psychedelics in order to judge the benefits or harm of these substances. For example: Timothy Leary bugs the hell out of me. He was the psychedelic advocate for my parents' generation but to me he just seems like a sensationalist wannabe guru who fried his mind and got sidetracked by fame. Delusions of grandeur.

The entheogen takes the form of the mind it is introduced to and amplifies it and reveals the subconscious to the conscious. In capable hands, it can be used as a powerful tool for self-transformation. But, in a weak mind or unbalanced mind the effects can be tragic. Messianic illusions of grandeur are possible when transcendental states are taken out of context and attributed to the personal ego of the subject rather than recognized as a continuum accessed by all minds equally either consciously or not at certain wavelengths.

Also, and perhaps more valuable, which this video makes the point of, is the entheogens have the potential to heal humanity's relationship with Nature. In fact, I have never been as connected to nature as when I did not have a house, but lived in the trees, and I ate a heroic dose of mushrooms every full moon night. In fact, to say that I had a relationship with Nature is wrong. I WAS nature. You would not believe some stories I could tell you about the woodland creatures and I.

I can't resist.... Here is one story...
One night I eat a an eighth and a half ounce of mushrooms and go for a walk through the forest. I decide to sit in an island in the river and I draw a circle in the sand around me. I sit in a moonbeam that is shining through a space in the branches of the canopy of trees. There are white moths spiraling around me as they climb the moonbeam. I try to meditate but quit the formal effort and just relax and merge with the surroundings. The crickets are loud, the river is gurgling and bubbling and it is all echoing in my ears.I felt something watching me so I looked over and saw a tiny owl, maybe 6-7 inches tall, looking at me. There we were, looking at each other. He turned his head all the way around and kept looking at me. I look up at the moon through the canopy of leaves and I watch as a giant shadow moves across the treetops. It is a bif bird. It swoops through the hole in the canopy that is shining the moonbeam on me. "What kind of bird is it?" I am thinking as I watch it descend closer and closer. Then at the same time I realize two things: 1. It is a Great Blue Heron. and 2. It thinks that I am a tree stump and it is going to land on me! And so I let it land on me but it was so hard for me not to laugh. It landed on me and it was standing on my shoulder while I was tryingto stay utterly still not to crack up laughing. It hopped off of me and started wading in the river right in front of me so I could relax and watch it up close. I was tripping very hard and mind-melded with it as the Vulcans say. He flew away when I had to move because my legs fell asleep from sitting still for so long. I never saw him again, but the little owl I saw EVERY NIGHT for the whole summer. And at different places. I would always get a feeling at some point walking back to my camp, and I would stop and turn and look and there he would be. My little owl friend. It was that night that I ate the mushrooms that we first met. Later on he led me to the tree where he lived in a hole. He could be sitting out in front of his hole in the daytime but he was so camouflaged that you could look right at him and not see him unless you knew he was there. Actually, he was a she, because the next Spring she had a few owlets. Then one day I never saw my owl friend anymore.

But I think that it is experiences like this that entheogens can facilitate that can heal the wound between us and the rest of nature. But only if we learn from the experiences and apply it to our lives so that it changes our lifestyle. I fell out of that lifestyle and now I live a pretty normal life paying taxes and renting to live and burning fossil fuels. But back then I was natural. I was a natural mystic.

Another story of invisibility...
I would stay out in the woods for a week or so until my food ran out and then I would walk into town to play some music on the street to earn some money to buy some more food. every time I walked into town I would walk through the National Forest, into the Park, and through the park into downtown. Now eventually I would be seen by somebody obviously. But my game or discipline I practiced/played was to see how long I could go before I was spotted. I had a wool djellaba that I got from Morocco that I wore. It looked like a Jedi robe. This was the invisibility cloak. It was this djellaba I was wearing when the Blue Heron landed on me.
Anyway, there was a big flood and many landslides and many of the forest service roads were destroyed so there was lots of reconstruction going on with bulldozers and work crews in the middle of the woods. Usually I avoided them but the day after the Heron landed on me I had to walk down that road (which was closed to the public, and no trespassing, authorized people only, city water people, resevoir road). As I walked down this road I had to explain to each work crew that I know I'm not supposed to be on that road but I told them that I got lost in the woods and came out onto this road so I will walk to town on it. It was a suspicious story because what is a hippy in a djellaba doing getting lost in the woods 6 miles from town? But they weren't tree cops or anything, just Mexican workers. So I round one corner and there is only one guy working in a bulldozer and I stop to wait for a chance to pass him. He sees me and yells "HEY!" like he is really mad or something and gets out of his bulldozer and runs right at me! I followed my natural instincts and I hopped up on a tree stump on the bank of the road so that I am above him. He runs right past me, stops, and looks all around in all directions. He looks very confused as if he just saw me disappear into thin air! He looks into the woods and I thought he looked right at me but I just sat still and he didn't see me. I wasn't even in the woods, I was on the edge of the dirt road on a tree stump maybe 15 feet from him. He walked to his pick-up truck and looked inside to see if his wallet and keys and stuff were still there (as if a natural mystic would rob him!). As he was doing that I hopped down and walked into town. I will never forget how confused he looked at seeing me apparently become invisible.
I also did the same thing to a police man.

It was in the winter and it was one of those very rainy periods. I didn't feel like walking back the 8 miles to my camp in the dark and the rain but I had nowhere to sleep so I stayed up and wandered around exploring the alleys and backs of restaurants and the rooftops of the town. I looked in the dumpsters and stuff. Just killing time until the morning when I would walk back to my camp. So I am walking down this one alley. There is a parking lot between me and the main road so I am not hidden from view from the road. The only car out goes by and it is a cop car and I see him see me. Now I know that a cop in the middle of the night has nothing to do so when he sees a hippie in a djellaba lurking around in an alley behind the shops downtown he is going to check it out. So I sit there and wait for him, because I don't want to run, that would imply that I am guilty or something. I had nothing to hide. I would just tell him the truth. So I sit there and he drives right past me at 2 miles an hour. He looks right at me but doesn't see me. He turns on his spotlight and shines it all around looking for me and I am right there literally two feet away from him! When he gets to the end he turns around and comes back and I am still sitting there but he still doesn't see me even though I see him. When he left, I took off.

The point is that I attribute this to being at one with nature and by my relationship to the psilocyben cubensis mushrooms. It took me a while to adjust to society when I had to settle down and live a civilized life.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

For example: Timothy Leary bugs the hell out of me. He was the psychedelic advocate for my parents' generation but to me he just seems like a sensationalist wannabe guru who fried his mind and got sidetracked by fame. Delusions of grandeur.

I haven't read all of your post yet,.. but have you ever actually listened to
any of leary's talks? Or read anything by him? Or read about his life in proper
context? It's unfair to start talking about Manson and then naming Timothy
Leary as an example, I think.

Edit@rest
Interesting stories! Thanks for sharing.

I have read Timothy Leary, and seen some footage of his talks. I was not comparing him to Manson, I am sorry if I gave that impression. No, I have some respect for Leary, I would not put him in the same categories as Manson or McKenna. I have mad respect for McKenna. Hardly any respect at all for Manson. All of these people are totally different. I don't know what I am doing talking about them all at the same time in the same paragraph! I am sleep deprived...

Originally Posted by dajo

But with this, as with his stance
on marijuana I would disagree with as well ("smoke a lot"), because if you
don't dream or remember any of them - to me it shows the opposite of
'opening up' and is a clear cut sign that one smokes too much.

So, yeah, I agree that he is sometimes a little dogmatic, but I remember
him giving a lecture on living mindfully and starting it with 'if you'd want
to live truly mindful, you should start by not attending any more of my talks'.
McKenna just is to be taken with a grain of salt - and I'm sure he'd agree.

I am going to read the rest of the posts later but just wanted to comment on this quickly. McKenna once said to smoke all the time. He then changed his view to you should only smoke once a week and smoke as much as you can until you think "I've had too much". This is because Cannabis is a psychedelic at higher doses. And lower doses too if you can meditate. But he was all about drugs for mind expansion, so he said to smoke a lot. However he still continued to smoke everyday, probably because he took psychedelics for mind expansion anyway and loved smoking it.

But yeah, he is right, that if you don't smoke for at least a week and then get baked as fuck, it's a trippy experience, although personally I would say to not smoke so much and to meditate in conjunction with smoking.

But I agree 100% with this "I remember
him giving a lecture on living mindfully and starting it with 'if you'd want
to live truly mindful, you should start by not attending any more of my talks'."

I was just going to say the same thing in my last post. I've found that if you really wanna become enlightened, it's best not to read or listen to other people's experiences too much. As long as you're open to the concept, it will happen eventually. Reading all this stuff is kind of trying to predict what will happen to you in the future, which is in direct opposition to enlightenment. To become enlightened you must be taken by surprise by something. I kinda regret listening to all those Alan Watts lectures for this reason.

The thing is, is that they're addictive. But it's better to find this stuff out by yourself. It's more profound that way.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

One night I eat a an eighth and a half ounce of mushrooms and go for a walk through the forest. I decide to sit in an island in the river and I draw a circle in the sand around me. I sit in a moonbeam that is shining through a space in the branches of the canopy of trees. There are white moths spiraling around me as they climb the moonbeam. I try to meditate but quit the formal effort and just relax and merge with the surroundings. The crickets are loud, the river is gurgling and bubbling and it is all echoing in my ears.I felt something watching me so I looked over and saw a tiny owl, maybe 6-7 inches tall, looking at me. There we were, looking at each other. He turned his head all the way around and kept looking at me. I look up at the moon through the canopy of leaves and I watch as a giant shadow moves across the treetops. It is a bif bird. It swoops through the hole in the canopy that is shining the moonbeam on me. "What kind of bird is it?" I am thinking as I watch it descend closer and closer. Then at the same time I realize two things: 1. It is a Great Blue Heron. and 2. It thinks that I am a tree stump and it is going to land on me! And so I let it land on me but it was so hard for me not to laugh. It landed on me and it was standing on my shoulder while I was tryingto stay utterly still not to crack up laughing. It hopped off of me and started wading in the river right in front of me so I could relax and watch it up close. I was tripping very hard and mind-melded with it as the Vulcans say. He flew away when I had to move because my legs fell asleep from sitting still for so long. I never saw him again, but the little owl I saw EVERY NIGHT for the whole summer. And at different places. I would always get a feeling at some point walking back to my camp, and I would stop and turn and look and there he would be. My little owl friend. It was that night that I ate the mushrooms that we first met. Later on he led me to the tree where he lived in a hole. He could be sitting out in front of his hole in the daytime but he was so camouflaged that you could look right at him and not see him unless you knew he was there. Actually, he was a she, because the next Spring she had a few owlets. Then one day I never saw my owl friend anymore.

This is one of the most beautiful thigns I've read on here in a very long time. Thank you for sharing. I have many many many many thoughts about this beautiful thread. I feel more alive after reading this. Thank you, to every single one of you who posted here.

I will share my thoughts on these many posts after I think on them for a nice long while. Thank you everyone.

Receptive responses.

Ideas splitting off and forming newer ideas.

Lovely.