Thread: Progress in Iraq. How is the war going?

I could really have done without the garbage in between. The pictures are sad, but it would have had a much more profound effect on their own. The stuff inbetween really made me feel like they didnt think the pics could stand on their own. Which they could have.

It doesn't take a genius to look at the evidence and tell that the war isn't and wasn't ever going well for America. In the long run, I think the war is going to have an extremely negative impact on America rather than a positive effect.

So the question of is the war benificial is irrelevant it's a question of how do you stop it. The other question is have we learnt from being lied to. Or will we simply keep letting it happen again.

If I learned anything from history class, it's that 9/10 times we let it happen again. Learning is for fags.

Go Back To Sleep.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILkDluH7m2Y
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ILkDluH7m2Y

Bush said Mission Accomplished in 2003, so I'm going with that.

The problem is that nobody knows what is going to happen or what is going to go wrong. Everyone will have their own thoughts on what is going to happen, but no one knows for sure. This ignorance is excusable as every one on the planet, whether determined right or wrong at a later point in time, has it. When things do start going wrong, it's people's inability to wake up and realize what's wrong that keep these things happen over and over again.

Example: The entire G.B. presidency.

Admittedly, I was once an ignorant fool like the example I gave above, but I have awakened and become informed.

Screw the people of Iraq. We should have never given them rights. We should have just put stuff about their rights on bumper stickers and acted stuck up about it.

There is no connection between a future of freedom, prosperity, advancement, and stability in the Middle East and the safety of the West. What could they possibly have to do with each other?

What wonderfully unbiased videos. Those videos paint the truth like I have never seen before.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

You can't even give your own people rights. You can't even give yourself rights. How are you going to give anyone rights even if you wanted.

Stop getting off on the idea of a perfect society. It only shows your blindness. Humans are imperfect, so anything we create is going to be imperfect. There is an idea that lets human beings have unlimited rights. It's called anarchy, and it doesn't work so well.

Oh yea, one more thing. My brothers are fighting and dying over seas to solve the problem you pointed out, just as I will be doing soon. Don't FUCKING demean our fight to a simple hippy political message. Some of my closest friends are dead. Don't pretend to give a fuck. Their stories keep me from sleeping some nights. I'm sure you sleep soundly every night.

What value do you have if you can't critically think, respect each other and the land and yourself? Yes no value. They lied to you about going in there. They lied about who did 911. They continue to lie, and you continue to believe it.

Originally Posted by tkdyo

I could really have done without the garbage in between. The pictures are sad, but it would have had a much more profound effect on their own. The stuff inbetween really made me feel like they didnt think the pics could stand on their own. Which they could have.

War isn't meant to be a happy time..

I actually think the war is going well, yes we suffered loses but that's war, what really annoyes is when the parents of the dead soldier is on tv saying "Why do they die" And moaning about people dieing, but the point is, if you join the army your expected to fight, so don't start complaining when people die. Anyway sadam is dead, terrorist commanders have been killed.. All is good on this sabbath day..

Huh? How is it good? 911 was a trick and Iraq was not a threat. Weapons of mass destruction were a lie and thousands of innocent people died.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

There is no connection between a future of freedom, prosperity, advancement, and stability in the Middle East and the safety of the West. What could they possibly have to do with each other?

It's true, places like Egypt and the UAE aren't threats, and are in fact, good business partners to the West. But I'm just wondering, in what years did the US invade and occupy these countries?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Screw the people of Iraq. We should have never given them rights. We should have just put stuff about their rights on bumper stickers and acted stuck up about it.

There is no connection between a future of freedom, prosperity, advancement, and stability in the Middle East and the safety of the West. What could they possibly have to do with each other?

Originally Posted by drewmandan

It's true, places like Egypt and the UAE aren't threats, and are in fact, good business partners to the West. But I'm just wondering, in what years did the US invade and occupy these countries?

In what years were they ruled by the Hussein regime or the Taliban?

Originally Posted by Dreamhope11

War isn't meant to be a happy time..

Yes, but that has no relevance to my quote at all. try again.

Originally Posted by Dreamhope11

I actually think the war is going well, yes we suffered loses but that's war, what really annoyes is when the parents of the dead soldier is on tv saying "Why do they die" And moaning about people dieing, but the point is, if you join the army your expected to fight, so don't start complaining when people die.

You don't have children, do you?
They are "moaning about people dying" because, in the grand scheme of things, infantry soldiers are pawns. They are given orders to follow, and operations to carry out (even if those operations are completely illogical, unwarranted, and based on fabrications) and they are expected to follow them, to the letter. One cannot blame the soldiers, because many of them work with a solid resolve to defend their country, which is absolutely respectable and should be honored. However, when that defense of the homeland spiel is used to carry out the ulterior motive of invading a completely unrelated country (one whose descent into chaos might actually serve the purpose of attracting some of the initial, minimally related terrorists in that region), completely destructing a region and causing the death of women and children to accomplish a goal that should have been handled in a completely different manner - all when only a small fraction of said force was actually sent to the region from which the 9/11 terrorist came from - the parents of those who are laying down their lives for this farce have every right to wonder why.

When the U.S. is selling this as a way to "liberate the countries," yet all but ignoring countries like Darfur (etc.) where barbarism has been taking place on the population, it all but deflates the "altruistic protection and liberation of the region" line, which was only one of the bottles of snake oil that they sold us to get into Iraq. The point was to establish presence over there, get rid of Sadaam (who, coincidentally, tried to kill Bush's father), have an associate's access to one of the largest surpluses of one of the most demanded natural resources on the planet - oil (which, coincidentally, Bush has been a big time oil man for years, probably dating back a few generations), and then not have a fucking clue about what to do after all that groundwork has been set (hence the lack of sufficient armor our troops were sent over there with, and all talk of "victory" being when "Iraq was able to sustain itself." - Yes. Iraq:The country whose military is seemingly apathetic about pulling their weight, and which is holding on to a national financial surplus, while the American economy is absolutely crashing to support them).

We have had soldiers taking 3-4 tours over there, actually driving them crazy, because we have been stretched so thin. Right now, the pro-war right is now stuck in the jarhead mentality of "We aren't leaving before victory!!" (which is almost analogous to a hometown football team who's slowly beginning to come back from a 27-65 loss and are trying to stay optimistic about victory - even when "a definition of victory" hasn't even been established, and this is a football game where our college players are actually dying because, instead of footballs, we are playing with grenades and I.E.Ds.)

A landmark philosophy of the military (especially Marines, God bless them) is to "never give up. Never surrender." So, the fact of the matter is, even if we were completely loosing this war against a guerilla tactic that can make any man woman and child - in a region of people who out number us - into lethal weapons capable of taking out large groups of soldiers and American vehicles at once, we will hear nothing but downplayed reports of how bad the violence is, and glorified reports of how we've gained a 3% success rate since the last report in an attempt to convince us that this means we are on the road to victory, and must stay the course.

Even football teams that are down by 40 points get pep-talks, at halftime.

Not everyone agrees on what we are fighting for, and for good reason. We have been lied to countless times, since the war started. If my daughter was sent to a war with such surrounding circumstances, I'd be pretty fucking pissed, too. And hearing you call my disdain "annoying" would probably get you punched in the throat.

Originally Posted by Dreamhope

Anyway sadam is dead, terrorist commanders have been killed.. All is good on this sabbath day..

All is good? Way to completely ignore the scores of people who are still dying over there, and the thousands upon thousands who have been left without homes.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Oh yea, one more thing. My brothers are fighting and dying over seas to solve the problem you pointed out, just as I will be doing soon. Don't FUCKING demean our fight to a simple hippy political message. Some of my closest friends are dead. Don't pretend to give a fuck. Their stories keep me from sleeping some nights. I'm sure you sleep soundly every night.

I have close friends who have been seriously injured in Iraq, and many more who I don't even know are still alive or not. I was in ROTC for 3 years, back before this all started, and a large percentage of my very best friends have gone into combat, so don't pretend like those of us who have opposing opinions somehow "don't give a fuck."

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

In what years were they ruled by the Hussein regime or the Taliban?

So I guess you missed my point.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

So I guess you missed my point.

You missed mine. The countries you named did not have governments that had to be overthrown. Iraq and Afghanistan did.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You missed mine. The countries you named did not have governments that had to be overthrown. Iraq and Afghanistan did.

Do you mean in the last few years, or ever? I'm pretty sure they did have tyrannical governments that were overthrown without outside help.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Do you mean in the last few years, or ever? I'm pretty sure they did have tyrannical governments that were overthrown without outside help.

Not any time recently. We could not wait forever for it to happen in Iraq or Afghanistan.