Internet Two [death of the internet]

[Minervas Phoenix]

Opinions?

[drewmandan]

Worst case scenario is that there will be a corporate, "white" internet, and an underground, "black" internet. No one, not even the government, can stop people from connecting their servers. Will the average idiot consumer get screwed? Absolutely. I don't think anyone can reasonably dispute that. But the smart consumers will be able to avoid this, just as smart consumers get free music and movies today.

[DNK]

What happens when smart consumers become ever marginalized, though? What happens when their voices are drowned out by corporate megaphones and the collective voice then accepts new laws that affect those smart consumers. I don't necessarily buy everything stated, but if true it's far more dangerous than you're making it out to be. In a technological world, knowledge and ideas become complete reality. Do you want the mainstream to be further deluded by an increasingly unresponsbile, profit-driven, corporately-controlled information system? My opinion on the current state of media affairs is already extremely low. This would be an exponentially worse case scenario.

[skysaw]

I like to believe that if the big corporations tried to pull this off that a grassroots free version of the internet would immediately take shape and put test to the viability of their new model. Even if it just took off somewhere in Norway, the people would find a way to propagate it, and push it back out to the world again. Then, in a world with two internets, the pay model would quickly perish. I honestly don't think anyone is big enough to squash the internet at this point. There are too many people with too big a stake in it.

[Oneironaut Zero]

That's pretty fucked up (but completely unsurprising). Here's another way the face of the Internet is changing. "The Grid": Superfast Internet I wonder about the implications of a system being made that entices, more, people to put everything online, being paired with Internet Two - where how much you trade through the net is going to cost more and more money. Hmmmm....

[drewmandan]

The Grid is just for CERN to distribute data from the LHC. It has nothing to do with the regular internet.

[Oneironaut Zero]

The Grid is just for CERN to distribute data from the LHC. It has nothing to do with the regular internet. The components of the grid branch out farther than CERN, though "the grid itself isn't expected to be directly available to domestic users." From the article: Although the grid itself is unlikely to be directly available to domestic internet users, many telecoms providers and businesses are already introducing its pioneering technologies. One of the most potent is so-called dynamic switching, which creates a dedicated channel for internet users trying to download large volumes of data such as films. In theory this would give a standard desktop computer the ability to download a movie in five seconds rather than the current three hours or so. Also: Ian Bird, project leader for Cern’s high-speed computing project, said grid technology could make the internet so fast that people would stop using desktop computers to store information and entrust it all to the internet. “It will lead to what’s known as cloud computing, where people keep all their information online and access it from anywhere,” he said.

[Serkat]

just as smart consumers get free music and movies today. You mean criminals?

[Minervas Phoenix]

If you make music or a film that is your choice to do what you do. What people do with that work once you have produced it is actually no different from what people do with the grass, food, and trees around them. You can't own the sky and the land. I know some people think that's reality but there is a different value system other than that. Which involves the understanding space is just space you don't own the ground or the sky or peoples movies or music or whatever. This value system sees the legal system as a pretend game. Just because a legal system on paper ses you are criminal does not mean you are necessarily. Especially if you don't want to play a pretend game. Which is what it is. To the reality of the situation if you left your money on the street here and there. They pick it up for free don't they? You can't say don't pick it up I left it there a week ago and they stole it. That wouldn't make sense you left it and it went away. In the same way if people get music and movies for free. It's because the film industry and the music industry is not wise enough to go about their business properly in the face of technology. Simply saying. "Please don't steal this you are criminal" is like saying 'please don't steal your clothes and house and car and wife which is mine or you are a criminal'. It becomes ridiculous. Getting music and movies for free is because we can. Screw the pretend legal system which is fake. You know what we are really burning? The system that controls us. It will force the industry to conform to this value system and then what are they going to do? It will not involve money. See that would totally screw the manipulators over. Not the film industry or music industry. Those industries would evolve to accommodate the new value systems and technology avaliable. To everyone out there who has a dvd recorder or file sharing program. Go crazy. Burn and spread information everywhere. This is the key to giving system of enslavement the middle finger. Why do you think they tell you not to do it? Exploit the weakness for christ sake. If everyone did it that law wouldn't even hold up as anything. Stop fearing it. The flow of information is critical. That's why they are trying to kill the internet. We are communicating and they hate it it's exposing them. I'm talking about the ones that want to destroy us. They have made that law so you will not be empowered. The entire legal system is superimposing a pretend game on to the reality of things. It's not about harmony at all. I don't need a certificate that says I'm dead. Nor do I need one that says I am born or married. If I was stupid enough to think that piece of paper meant anything. I would be owned by someone else's imagination. I don't need the authority of a private corporation to tell me I exist. I don't need a corporation to tell me what I can and cannot do in reality. If I can get music I will be file sharing music. Regardless of what a private corporation wants which is what the legal system belongs too. So don't say we are criminals for not conforming to a fascist deception.

[Serkat]

You've obviously never invested any time, money or effort in something that can be represented digitally or else you wouldn't say such things.

[Oneironaut Zero]

You've obviously never invested any time, money or effort in something that can be represented digitally or else you wouldn't say such things. For the record; I'm an artist and musician. I have a lot of original work online. I'm also a pirate. I contribute to very much, but I'm not above getting free music or movies (or software required for school that I can't, otherwise, afford). I'm very aware of the risks that any artist takes, when putting their craft out there, as well should they be.

[Minervas Phoenix]

Serkat the reason why smart people don't invest time in areas where it is most likely wasted rather than areas that are more productive is because that would be dumb. I would say such things. Not because I haven't made an effort. But because I understand the situation enough to take these things into account. If one is afraid of losing money. One should try and think about providing a better service or change their approach. As that is why you lose money. I value movies and music as much as anyone. Which is why I believe they should be made more avaliable. Not that the artists themself cannot be compensated for that either in a value system and environment which would support their talents. In terms of making resources avaliable for them to continue. You are given resources when you deserve them. People like you and that is why they want your talent and want to support you. It has nothing to do with money on the core level of our being.

[Malac Reborn]

If you make music or a film that is your choice to do what you do. What people do with that work once you have produced it is actually no different from what people do with the grass, food, and trees around them. You can't own the sky and the land. I know some people think that's reality but there is a different value system other than that. Which involves the understanding space is just space you don't own the ground or the sky or peoples movies or music or whatever. This value system sees the legal system as a pretend game. Just because a legal system on paper ses you are criminal does not mean you are necessarily. Especially if you don't want to play a pretend game. Which is what it is. To the reality of the situation if you left your money on the street here and there. They pick it up for free don't they? You can't say don't pick it up I left it there a week ago and they stole it. That wouldn't make sense you left it and it went away. In the same way if people get music and movies for free. It's because the film industry and the music industry is not wise enough to go about their business properly in the face of technology. Simply saying. "Please don't steal this you are criminal" is like saying 'please don't steal your clothes and house and car and wife which is mine or you are a criminal'. It becomes ridiculous. Getting music and movies for free is because we can. Screw the pretend legal system which is fake. You know what we are really burning? The system that controls us. It will force the industry to conform to this value system and then what are they going to do? It will not involve money. See that would totally screw the manipulators over. Not the film industry or music industry. Those industries would evolve to accommodate the new value systems and technology avaliable. To everyone out there who has a dvd recorder or file sharing program. Go crazy. Burn and spread information everywhere. This is the key to giving system of enslavement the middle finger. Why do you think they tell you not to do it? Exploit the weakness for christ sake. If everyone did it that law wouldn't even hold up as anything. Stop fearing it. The flow of information is critical. That's why they are trying to kill the internet. We are communicating and they hate it it's exposing them. I'm talking about the ones that want to destroy us. They have made that law so you will not be empowered. The entire legal system is superimposing a pretend game on to the reality of things. It's not about harmony at all. I don't need a certificate that says I'm dead. Nor do I need one that says I am born or married. If I was stupid enough to think that piece of paper meant anything. I would be owned by someone else's imagination. I don't need the authority of a private corporation to tell me I exist. I don't need a corporation to tell me what I can and cannot do in reality. If I can get music I will be file sharing music. Regardless of what a private corporation wants which is what the legal system belongs too. So don't say we are criminals for not conforming to a fascist deception. Is that an excuse for pirating music? Hopefully you will have more respect for the people who are putting their hearts out in their music. Please don't make any long excuses to justify it in some logical type robot stance. Be a human being and understand. Be kind. People seem to make excuses or play dumb by applying their "logic" to it. People are growing with a "statistical logic" type of mind set. A mind with parameters and lack of understanding because they work within these parameters set by todays world. I'm not talking about common sense and not saying logic is bad, in all cases. (Can't entirely explain it because I don't care right now) Example: ..don't laugh... *Boy is crying* Bill: What's wrong little boy? Boy: My mommy went into that big factory over there and never came out! Bill: Oh, well that there little guy is used to decrease the world's population! Your mom died a hero Boy: waaaaaa! Bill: Um, calm down buddy. Why are you crying? Its just a process to limit the worlds population. Boy: waaaaaaaa Bill: Statistics say the worlds population is too high so this is a splendid idea to lowering it. Boy: Leave (waaa) Me (waaa) Alone! (waaaaa) Bill: Hmm there must be something that is effecting you. Lets take you to the doctor! Another example: If two people argue, it turns around to an argument of vocabulary, usually as in who has the best grammar and if someone says a single sentence about some little insignificant opinion, the other will question and stress it out and sway away from the original topic. (Btw i know this post has bad grammar excuse me for my lack of caring) I can't (more like dont want to) explain this little confusing bit but hopefully someone got some of it. Usually if I post stuff in the "logical robot type" manner I'm talking about, but it's usually sarcasm and I understand what they're saying.. ..Sorry just saw something I didn't like and my gibberish fast reply is so off topic... Edit:Just read my post. Sound like im confused or something at the end lol. Also Minervas I'm not talking about you in a bad way. I don't even know you to judge you really. Just seen at the beginning an excuse in my opnion as to pirate music. BTW: I pirate so much music but the only excuse I have is that I don't care because its free :/

[Jeff777]

Is this shit legal? Whose doing this? The US? Are other governments in conjunction with this highway robbery?

[Schmaven]

This is just one more thing on the list of things that the government is doing to screw over everyone. Personally, I'm appalled that stuff like this is going on (I'm not referring to getting movies and music for free, that's great ). It makes me sick that they have been able to brainwash people into accepting the things they've been doing. I just hope we can turn things around before it's too late.

[Original Poster]

Great, so you reserved your ability to say "I told you so" you waste of life. I'm sorry, does it really make you feel better to sit around and do nothing but describe how upset you are at this situation? No wonder we're losig our freedom, no one is standing up for it.

[Minervas Phoenix]

you waste of life Lets not resort to unkindness now. Remember what George Orwell said. Telling the truth in a time of universal deceit is anything but a waste, it is a revolutionary act.

[Schmaven]

Great, so you reserved your ability to say "I told you so" you waste of life. I'm sorry, does it really make you feel better to sit around and do nothing but describe how upset you are at this situation? No wonder we're losig our freedom, no one is standing up for it. I am not going to just sit around and wait for the opportunity to say, "I told you so." In fact, I don't sit around and do nothing but describe how upset I am at this situation. I was merely responding to this thread. I am always looking for ways I can help improve things. But there have been many things I was unaware of previously that I find shocking. Actually, I would say it does make me feel better having expressed my opinions. If it didn't, I probably wouldn't express them Opinions? Also, the only time I sit around and do nothing, is when that is exactly what I want to do (meditation). The rest of the time, I keep myself busy with what I find to be meaningful activities. I have decided to master the guitar, so most of my time is dedicated to practicing. I know exactly what I want to do with my life at this point in time, and as a result, I am never at a loss with what to do with my time. Despite your personal attack on me, I do agree with the last sentence of your post. We need more people to stand up for their freedoms, as there will always be those trying to take them away.

[Original Poster]

It was the phrasing. I get very, very agitated at hearing the same BS every day. I did not respond in an apropriate way and I'm sorry. It's just like, on a massive scale, and I'm not talking about you, the majority of progressive people in the world right now are wasting their lives. The vast, vast majority. I am not excluded from this list, and I am personally more upset at myself than the situation by the fact that I'm not doing anything about the situation. Something about your posts came off as a stereotypical liberal response. "This upsets me, I'm going to go knit a sweater!"

[Jeff777]

It was the phrasing. I get very, very agitated at hearing the same BS every day. I did not respond in an apropriate way and I'm sorry. It's just like, on a massive scale, and I'm not talking about you, the majority of progressive people in the world right now are wasting their lives. The vast, vast majority. I am not excluded from this list, and I am personally more upset at myself than the situation by the fact that I'm not doing anything about the situation. Something about your posts came off as a stereotypical liberal response. "This upsets me, I'm going to go knit a sweater!" I understand where you're coming from. I'm the same way. Instead of just posting vids and agreeing with each other at how upset we are about it...you're the type of person that wants to take some form of action. Same here. But please understand...spreading awareness IS a form of action. Other steps can be taken as well though.

[Mysteryhunter]

Internet is changing, and the control of the availability of data is happening to us. There will always be ways around any system. The internet and systems may change, but there will be new ways to exploit and hack. Yes they will call us criminal. Meh

[Minervas Phoenix]

If you realize this we can only get smarter. Understand and expect the attack and seek to overcome it. Despair is a wrong turn in combat and you don't have time.

[Neruo]

His "both sides have to pay" argument is pretty silly. Both companies and consumers pay taxes for roads. Digital roads and the concrete kind. - Also, the internet is to big to completely monitor, and that's a good thing. Unless our governments restricts our internet by definition unless it is approved, instead of the other way around: allowing everything but the restricted. Only when 'unidentified' data can't travel the internet, our governments could fuck us in the ass. That will not happen in the next 100 years in western societies. Not in Europe at least.

[Serkat]

I understand where you're coming from. I'm the same way. Instead of just posting vids and agreeing with each other at how upset we are about it...you're the type of person that wants to take some form of action. Same here. But please understand...spreading awareness IS a form of action. Other steps can be taken as well though. Yeah, you could try setting all the clocks back 1 year before Dec. 2012 so you still got time to finish your degree.

[Jeff777]

Yeah, you could try setting all the clocks back 1 year before Dec. 2012 so you still got time to finish your degree. I don't subscribe to such doomsday prophecies troll. However...you could take your own advice and decide to pickup in school where you left off. 6th grade was it?