Thread: Damn Skeptics......

Why ARE there even skeptics on this site. This site was created so those who believe in lucid dreaming and even beyond could talk about there convincing experiences. No one posts there experiences and expects all of you damn skeptics to prove us all wrong. You can either join in on your opinions, or i can shut the fuck up and read. I don't mind when skeptics put up a good arguement, but there is no need for the bashing, which is STATED IN THE RULES. No one wants to hear your bitching about how we are wrong and full of it. We want to chat, like mature people.

Sorry but this site is for people who are interested in lucid dreaming. All that "beyond" stuff is only bootstrapped by proxy. And I don't see too many people here trying to disprove - or argue - the fact or fiction of lucid dreaming.

There's a difference between dreaming and mysticism.

Originally Posted by awakened_mind

Why ARE there even skeptics on this site. This site was created so those who believe in lucid dreaming and even beyond could talk about there convincing experiences. No one posts there experiences and expects all of you damn skeptics to prove us all wrong. You can either join in on your opinions, or i can shut the fuck up and read. I don't mind when skeptics put up a good arguement, but there is no need for the bashing, which is STATED IN THE RULES. No one wants to hear your bitching about how we are wrong and full of it. We want to chat, like mature people.

I agree.

Sorry but this site is for people who are interested in lucid dreaming. All that "beyond" stuff is only bootstrapped by proxy. And I don't see too many people here trying to disprove - or argue - the fact or fiction of lucid dreaming.

There's a difference between dreaming and mysticism.

Here OBEs, dream precognition, sharing dreams, and other freaky paranormal things can be discussed. Note that this particular forum is ONLY for members who BELIEVE in the aforementioned topics.

This may be an LD site but each area has it's own thing, it's not just LD. The part mainly above beyond dreaming is mostly for LDing. Just like off topic or as we call it the lounge. People just don't understand the rules of each forum and decide to play the opposite role because they can't allow others to have a difference of opinion because it's not the same as their opinion, plain and simple.

owned.

Originally Posted by awakened_mind

Why ARE there even skeptics on this site. This site was created so those who believe in lucid dreaming and even beyond could talk about there convincing experiences. No one posts there experiences and expects all of you damn skeptics to prove us all wrong. You can either join in on your opinions, or i can shut the fuck up and read. I don't mind when skeptics put up a good arguement, but there is no need for the bashing, which is STATED IN THE RULES. No one wants to hear your bitching about how we are wrong and full of it. We want to chat, like mature people.

How much of a moron are you? Look up the definition of skepticism and come back when you realize what a tool you are.

Originally Posted by icedawg

'Beyond Dreaming' was not created for debate, but rather, it exists for members who believe in the sort of topics that fit into its scope (such as OBEs, dream precognition, astral projection, etc.) to have peaceful discussions amongst themselves. I understand many of us don't believe in the material that fits within that forum (myself included) but enough people do that we have given them their own forum to discuss it. For those who doubt and would prefer debate the truth behind such phenomenon, I would suggest using other forums (such as 'Extended Discussion'), since, quite frankly, you're not discussing anything "beyond dreaming" but rather using science and natural laws instead.

There you all have it. So if you want to denounce anything, take it to Extended Discussion like the former owner said.

For those who doubt and would prefer debate the truth behind such phenomenon, I would suggest using other forums (such as 'Extended Discussion'), since, quite frankly, you're not discussing anything "beyond dreaming" but rather using science and natural laws instead.

In other words, THIS topic should be in 'Extended Discussion'.

Actually, this topic probably belongs in The Lounge.

I was thinking senseless banter.

Originally Posted by awakened_mind

Why ARE there even skeptics on this site. This site was created so those who believe in lucid dreaming and even beyond could talk about there convincing experiences. No one posts there experiences and expects all of you damn skeptics to prove us all wrong. You can either join in on your opinions, or i can shut the fuck up and read. I don't mind when skeptics put up a good argument, but there is no need for the bashing, which is STATED IN THE RULES. No one wants to hear your bitching about how we are wrong and full of it. We want to chat, like mature people.

Well said. I've wondered why everyone breaks the rules of the Beyond Dreaming forum.

Even though awakened_minds topic doesn't necessarily belong in the Beyond Dreaming thread, the point of the topic is to get through to all the skeptics searching for posts to bash on the Beyond Dreaming thread, and everyone else who spends time here. If it were somewhere else, not as many people would see it, because not everyone who posts on the Beyond Dreaming thread looks in the Lounge or Extended Discussion.

Basically, yes. What I said was specific to this subforum and only this subforum. Contrary to what Neruo said, having an open mind is more about simply (and momentarily) entertaining an idea or possibility whether or not you actually believe it. This is something a lot of people here seem unable to do. Its almost as if they aren't able to temporarily assume "what if", and instead stubbornly revert to "prove it" arguments...which is fine in the other 20+ forums here (or however many). But there should be a place where like minded people are free to discuss hypothetical subjects without persecution, so long as its in a place that is designed for such discussions (don't get me wrong).

Astral projection is a good example. Personally I don't believe it, but if people want to get into a deep discussion about it, seeing as it seem very similar to lucid dreaming, they should be able to do so without someone trying to hi-jack the thread for no other reason but because they couldn't stomach the idea that people could believe in something "unscientific". Talk about being closed minded. What about the entire discipline of Philosophy? Where exactly do you think science came from?? If such topic where anywhere else, I'd be all for criticism...in fact I'd probably be one of those doing the criticizing. But, one place should be designated for people who may want to move beyond the "is it proven" stage, and into more advanced hypotheticals. I don't see anything harmful about that, so long as that sort of talk stays confined to this subforum.

I’m sorry, but if you are unable to let people do this IN a forum designed for such discussions, it is probably you who has the narrow mind. And besides, the rules are clear regardless of how you feel. Deal with it.

Originally Posted by ethen

...But there should be a place where like minded people are free to discuss hypothetical subjects without persecution, so long as its in a place that is designed for such discussions (don't get me wrong).

I think the real problem people have is that such topics aren't discussed in a "what if" manner. They are usually presented as being fact when - in fact - there are NO facts to back up such claims.

Yeah, I can move things with my mind too! Shapeshift? Pfft, I do that on a regular basis. And of course I have made friends with beings from the planet Gorgon. Absurd? No, not at all and I forbid you to challenge my bullshit claims. This forum offers me diplomatic immunity. That's right, Dreamviews is all about supporting unchallenged bullshit

Then I suppose its too bad that this specific subforum isn't meant for those types of debates. This doesn't mean you can't debate such ideas, you just can't do it in here. Case closed. No need to be so melodramatic...

'Beyond Dreaming' was not created for debate, but rather, it exists for members who believe in the sort of topics that fit into its scope (such as OBEs, dream precognition, astral projection, etc.) to have peaceful discussions amongst themselves. I understand many of us don't believe in the material that fits within that forum (myself included) but enough people do that we have given them their own forum to discuss it. For those who doubt and would prefer debate the truth behind such phenomenon, I would suggest using other forums (such as 'Extended Discussion'), since, quite frankly, you're not discussing anything "beyond dreaming" but rather using science and natural laws instead.

This is just a reminder that we will be warning and banning users who refuse to acknowledge and respect this forum's intended purpose. Those people who don't believe in anything "beyond dreaming" really should be avoiding this particular forum altogether and instead using the rest of the board. Those people who cannot hold a civil and amicable discussion should frankly not be a member on this board.

Again I'd like to remind everyone of the above. We will ban as necessary to keep this place peaceful.


Move along if you don't like it.

You heard the man. If you want to challenge bullshit claims, then do it in the extended discussion subforum. Whats so hard to understand about this? I mean really, no one is saying you can't challenge the ideas brought up in the beyond dreaming forum, so enough with that excuse. There just happens to be a seperate place meant for that.

Stop whining.

Originally Posted by ethen

You heard the man. If you want to challenge bullshit claims, then do it in the extended discussion subforum. Whats so hard to understand about this?

This is the extended discussion forum. That's why I'm here arguing against bullshit. But, yes, I understand the rules.

Stop whining.

Don't take my whining from me; it's all I have

Lucid dreaming is not a matter of belief.

It has been proved, henceforth can be viewed as fact, similarly to how hydrogen reacts with fire with an explosion.


Fact.

See now, I kind of like exploring the beyond dreaming stuff because I'm open to it, and i want to see evidence of stuff beyond the natural world in order to gain understanding.

But I'm not about to believe anything I hear, either. I want the evidence people have for why they believe what they believe, I want their argument, and I'm not bashing anyone about it. But I barely go to beyond dreaming so this is pretty null.

I would like to know why most topics in Beyond Dreaming say that you have to believe in order for the things to happen, but when people ask simple questions to help them "believe", or a better word is understand, it causes people to get on the questioner's case.

Originally Posted by Sandform

I would like to know why most topics in Beyond Dreaming say that you have to believe in order for the things to happen, but when people ask simple questions to help them "believe", or a better word is understand, it causes people to get on the questioner's case.

That happens? I don't frequent that forum, but it sounds like some people are pretty insecure in their beliefs if they get defensive over a request for clarification. It sounds like some people who think belief is a choice 100% are struggling, and can't stand it when someone (indirectly and involuntarily) reminds them that what they REALLY WANT to believe is not necessarily what they ACTUALLY believe, by asking an innocent question.

This is it. As far as the beyond dreaming forum goes, skeptics are technically not supposed to post there. Not that I care one way or another, I'm just telling you like it is. You are not supposed to post there. Period.

In the event that you do, however, and really in any area of the forum, there is NO excuse for being so hostile and rude. Most of the skeptics on here are complete assholes. Worst thing is, there's no reason for it. You're just hostile for no reason. Don't reply with some bullshit like "well sometimes we get worked up at [x]" no. There's no excuse. There is absolutely no reason. It is completely and in every way unnecessary and I have said this countless times.

I also have asked countless times why you are all so hostile, and no one can give me a straight answer. Well about proves my point right there doesn't it? There's no reason. I think that's mostly what awakened mind has a problem with. The forum would be boring if everyone thought the same. Most of us think differently from others, but how many times have you seen a believer blatently and randomly 'attack' a skeptic? Maybe a few. How many times have you seen a skeptic blatently and randomly attack a believer? Wayyyyy more. The ratio is extreme. You all are so hostile. Get over yourselves. You have this mentality of "people must believe what you believe or else they are stupid".

The bashing on this forum needs to stop. It's unnecessary. Makes you look like a bunch of angry kids, constantly insulting people who may not have even ever said anything other than "i had an OBE last night". It's fucking ridiculous. If you are skeptical, fine. But be respectful. And once again perhaps this post will go unnoticed, as posts of this type usually do. Hopefully it will reach a few of you. Probably not most, as in my experience on here, most of you do not have the mental capacity to show respect in your arguments.

The end. There's nothing else. Trying to contradict what I've said is pointless. There is never a reason to just attack people. Stop being assholes. There's no reason for it. Fact.