Thread: Saddam

my freind it is late.
i will reply fully tomorrow,
but frist let me assure you I have no hate for any country
I despise the role the US plays in world affairs
Current US foreign polcy I hate.
I have no hate for the people as i dont know many
and am not a bigot
I have respect for parts of the culture
I am a fan of many American thinkers, writers poets and so forth.
so get this notion of me ahting the US out of your head
Don't pass those kind of judgem,ents on me
I refrain from passing them on you.

And these alliances have been for the right reason?
You look into the Iran-Iraq war

You look into Dr Mossadeq's removal and the reason
Nationalization of the countires oil reserves and therefore higher prices for the US.
Look at who they replaced him with and his infamous SAVAK.
Look at the revolution that saved thousands in Iran.
Look into the US' failure to extradite a proven war criminal to Iran where he could be tried.
and the hostage istuation whilst you're there.

please actually do it, do not simply rebut that, read about it
and i'll get back to you 2morrow

=D

and by the way
I am British myslef,
So i hate neither nation
I dislike their leaders and their foreign policy/.

Imran


EDIT :- you idnt carpet bomb the country because you didnt want to blow up the oil reserves
Youre future oil

Do the words... Oil for food embargo mean anything to you.
hmmm?

Originally Posted by imran_p

my freind it is late.
i will reply fully tomorrow,
but frist let me assure you I have no hate for any country
I despise the role the US plays in world affairs
Current US foreign polcy I hate.
I have no hate for the people as i dont know many
and am not a bigot
I have respect for parts of the culture
I am a fan of many American thinkers, writers poets and so forth.
so get this notion of me ahting the US out of your head
Don't pass those kind of judgem,ents on me
I refrain from passing them on you.

And these alliances have been for the right reason?
You look into the Iran-Iraq war

You look into Dr Mossadeq's removal and the reason
Nationalization of the countires oil reserves and therefore higher prices for the US.
Look at who they replaced him with and his infamous SAVAK.
Look at the revolution that saved thousands in Iran.
Look into the US' failure to extradite a proven war criminal to Iran where he could be tried.
and the hostage istuation whilst you're there.

please actually do it, do not simply rebut that, read about it
and i'll get back to you 2morrow

=D

and by the way
I am British myslef,
So i hate neither nation
I dislike their leaders and their foreign policy/.

Imran
EDIT :- you idnt carpet bomb the country because you didnt want to blow up the oil reserves
Youre future oil

Do the words... Oil for food embargo mean anything to you.
hmmm?
[/b]

First of all, happy new year!

I'll tell you what... We can talk about all of the things you just brought up AFTER you answer my questions from my previous post. I want you to tell me how much you appreciate the things I mentioned about what the United States has done to help/save the world, and then I would like for you to tell me what the Hussein regime did that was better for the world. Then you can tell me how the U.S. and the Hussein regime are morally equal.

Even if everything you just brought up is seen in the darkest possible light on the U.S., where it is exactly as you described it and we have no justification whatsoever, how does any of it compare to what I said about the Hussein regime? Again, there is no comparison.

You, and others, turn around and say that you only have a problem with our government and not the people. Don't forget that we people voted those people into power and that they acted under our political pressure. I voted for Bush, so you are talking about things that I had something to do with. You have a right to do that, and we can still be friends even though you are saying that stuff, but remember that when you throw around the term "United States", you are talking about all of us. With that being the case, I want to know how much you appreciate the sacrifices so many of us have made to give you a better life than you would have otherwise. If you are not white, you would not even exist right now if it were not for the United States. Do you know what Hitler got really far with doing before we teamed up with the Soviet Union and Britain to stop his world domination stunt? Do you have any idea what Americans, some of whom I am related to and many others that I knew, went through to stop that crap? What did the Hussein regime ever do for the world?

Originally Posted by Universal

First of all, happy new year!

I'll tell you what... We can talk about all of the things you just brought up AFTER you answer my questions from my previous post. I want you to tell me how much you appreciate the things I mentioned about what the United States has done to help/save the world, and then I would like for you to tell me what the Hussein regime did that was better for the world. Then you can tell me how the U.S. and the Hussein regime are morally equal.

Even if everything you just brought up is seen in the darkest possible light on the U.S., where it is exactly as you described it and we have no justification whatsoever, how does any of it compare to what I said about the Hussein regime? Again, there is no comparison.

You, and others, turn around and say that you only have a problem with our government and not the people. Don't forget that we people voted those people into power and that they acted under our political pressure. I voted for Bush, so you are talking about things that I had something to do with. You have a right to do that, and we can still be friends even though you are saying that stuff, but remember that when you throw around the term "United States", you are talking about all of us. With that being the case, I want to know how much you appreciate the sacrifices so many of us have made to give you a better life than you would have otherwise. If you are not white, you would not even exist right now if it were not for the United States. Do you know what Hitler got really far with doing before we teamed up with the Soviet Union and Britain to stop his world domination stunt? Do you have any idea what Americans, some of whom I am related to and many others that I knew, went through to stop that crap? What did the Hussein regime ever do for the world?
[/b]

I dont want to get into an arguement with you on this but i guarentee and i would bet my life on it that i can name far more things that give thr US a bad name that what do the Opposite. i hate people saying america does so much for the world so heres just a few things off the top of my head:

1) Bush cleary wants iraq for oil and doesnt care about the people who live there.
2) the USA is responcible for corrupt businesses.
3) America only entered WW2 after they got bombed and didnt care that half of europe had been destroyed.
4) USA is responcibily for Hip Hop culture that encourages a life of crime and stealing.
5) USA causes trouble with all these countries like Iran and North Korea becuase they own nuclear weapons. doesnt america also?
6) Voilence Gangs started off in the US.
7) 90% of world crime comes from the US.
8) Americans are so Patriotic yet they dont seem to realise that if you step outside of your country your government is hated even amongst your allies.

America may have done good in its time but it also has alot to answer for...

Originally Posted by cptamazing

I dont want to get into an arguement with you on this but i guarentee and i would bet my life on it that i can name far more things that give thr US a bad name that what do the Opposite. i hate people saying america does so much for the world so heres just a few things off the top of my head:

1) Bush cleary wants iraq for oil and doesnt care about the people who live there.
2) the USA is responcible for corrupt businesses.
3) America only entered WW2 after they got bombed and didnt care that half of europe had been destroyed.
4) USA is responcibily for Hip Hop culture that encourages a life of crime and stealing.
5) USA causes trouble with all these countries like Iran and North Korea becuase they own nuclear weapons. doesnt america also?
6) Voilence Gangs started off in the US.
7) 90% of world crime comes from the US.
8) Americans are so Patriotic yet they dont seem to realise that if you step outside of your country your government is hated even amongst your allies.

America may have done good in its time but it also has alot to answer for...
[/b]

Posting something like that is not a good way to get the "don't want... argument" ball rolling.

1. Clearly? Let's see this clear proof. And did you see what the queers are doing to the soil?
2. That is quite a vague statement. Be more specific. There are lots of us, and some of us are corrupt business people. Can you find me 300 million people without a corrupt few included? My country helps your country's business. I don't know where you live, but I know that it's true.
3. Didn't care? Where do you get that? Did you read what I said about the vets I knew personally? I said that they were there, going through something absolutely horrifying, for more than U.S. interests. They had saving the world in mind. You're damn lucky they did it.
4. The U.S. is responsible for a great deal of entertainment that the world loves because we have a tax code that allows business to be extremely successful. Some of our entertainment is negative, but I know you love a whole lot of our entertainment. You don't have to admit it. I already know you do.
5. The United States does not engage in the oppression and terrorism that North Korea (mainly oppression... What kind of North Korean entertainment do you like the most?) and Iran (mainly terrorism... Do you question this?) engage in. How many times have those countries played major roles in saving the world?
6. Violent gangs existed thousands of years before the United States even existed. Next...
7. Bullshit. Where do you come up with this stuff? I will give you points for comedy, however.
8. Jealousy is the root of most evil.

Originally Posted by Universal

Posting something like that is not a good way to get the "don't want... argument" ball rolling.

1. Clearly? Let's see this clear proof. And did you see what the queers are doing to the soil?
2. That is quite a vague statement. Be more specific. There are lots of us, and some of us are corrupt business people. Can you find me 300 million people without a corrupt few included? My country helps your country's business. I don't know where you live, but I know that it's true.
3. Didn't care? Where do you get that? Did you read what I said about the vets I knew personally? I said that they were there, going through something absolutely horrifying, for more than U.S. interests. They had saving the world in mind. You're damn lucky they did it.
4. The U.S. is responsible for a great deal of entertainment that the world loves because we have a tax code that allows business to be extremely successful. Some of our entertainment is negative, but I know you love a whole lot of our entertainment. You don't have to admit it. I already know you do.
5. The United States does not engage in the oppression and terrorism that North Korea (mainly oppression... What kind of North Korean entertainment do you like the most?) and Iran (mainly terrorism... Do you question this?) engage in. How many times have those countries played major roles in saving the world?
6. Violent gangs existed thousands of years before the United States even existed. Next...
7. Bullshit. Where do you come up with this stuff? I will give you points for comedy, however.
8. Jealousy is the root of most evil.
[/b]

You dont understand, i have nothing to be jealous about, if i could live in america for free i wouldnt. If i was jealous then i would just move there :S Ok so america has some of the best entertainment because its payed for by your corrupt corporations. regarding WW2, the Allies would have won WW2 without the help of the USA but thats besides the point, i know alot of americans died in the war fighting but when was that, rite near the end of the war after half the Population of europe had been exterminated. If it wasnt for Pearl Harbour america would have watched the rest of the world burn so i fail to see how they are the worlds saviour, the only thing i see is a country that interferes with smaller countries just to make money from them. They see themselves has supieriors and Police to the rest of the world but the rest of the world see them as an Interfering super-power that threatens with military or economy to get what they want...

Originally Posted by cptamazing

You dont understand, i have nothing to be jealous about, if i could live in america for free i wouldnt. If i was jealous then i would just move there :S Ok so america has some of the best entertainment because its payed for by your corrupt corporations. regarding WW2, the Allies would have won WW2 without the help of the USA but thats besides the point, i know alot of americans died in the war fighting but when was that, rite near the end of the war after half the Population of europe had been exterminated. If it wasnt for Pearl Harbour america would have watched the rest of the world burn so i fail to see how they are the worlds saviour, the only thing i see is a country that interferes with smaller countries just to make money from them. They see themselves has supieriors and Police to the rest of the world but the rest of the world see them as an Interfering super-power that threatens with military or economy to get what they want...
[/b]

Yeah, yeah, whatever. After posting, I looked and saw that you live in New Zealand. Let me put it this way... You won't catch me spending much time on the internet with my mind wrapped up in New Zealand. Your conspiracy hypotheses are interesting but unfounded. Hitler was taking over countries one after another until we jumped in and made a difference. We take war very seriously, but we were pushing to get into WWII long before Pearl Harbor. I'm surprised you aren't arguing the old idea that Roosevelt allowed Pearl Harbor to happen so he would have almost full support in jumping into the war. And again... I personally knew several WWII vets. I know what they had in mind when they were fighting. It meant more to them than probably anything will ever mean to you.

We don't see ourselves as superiors. YOU do, and that is what is really going on here. If the United States went all the way isolationist today, the world would change for the much worse. The rest of the free countries would be under much greater threat, and our biggest bashers would suddenly start screaming for us to have their backs again. Saying otherwise would be to ignore the big pink elephant in the room. Everybody knows it's there. It's just a matter of who rationalizes what.

We Americans don't put ourselves on the pedestal you put us on. We forget about all of this stuff until people like you start trashing us with so much hate. We don't walk around with our noses in the air thinking about the rest of the world's place compared to ours all day. We want to live our lives, raise our families, and have fun, just like everybody else. The difference is that we are not as obsessed with our status in the world as the rest of the world is. We want the rest of the world to adopt our economic principles and be prospering democracies. We don't want to stand out. We are doing what we wish the rest of the world was doing. So don't be jealous. Just improve your own country. You can do it too. Be the best you can be instead of just sitting there and drinking coffee and talking about how much you hate us. There's no future in it.

Edit/P.S.- If people would stop trashing my country, I would stop defending it. Insulting countries will invite the same reactions you get when you insult races and genders. It's not a very peaceful action.

Imran, I will talk more about the Cold War move of aiding in the removal (by the Shah) of Mossadeq (reported to have communist/Soviet ties that threatened our world... The fight to stop the Soviets from taking over the world was about as serious as the fight to stop the Nazis from taking over the world.), an appointed monarch (by the Shah), after you answer my big 2 questions. You talked around the topics, but you did not give me direct answers. I asked you how much you appreciate the sacrifices Americans have made to save your world. Even if you want to argue that the United States made no difference in World War II and that the Nazis would have for whatever wild reason (There is no "buffer zone" to a military that has taken over, which probably would have happened had we not led the fight in Western Europe, thereby taking away a huge chunk of Hitler's military resources.) not gotten to India and beyond, you cannot deny the fact that 1.1 million Americans were either killed or injured in the fight to stop Hitler from taking over the world and completely wiping out your race and many others. I know we were also fighting the Japanese, but fighting the Japanese had to be done partly because we could not stop Hitler without doing it. No matter what corrupt or selfish motives you assume my government had, I know for a fact what so many American soldiers were thinking about when they were fighting. I know what it meant to them. I have been asking you how much you appreciate their sacrifices. You said about the generalized idea of the U.S. having done "good" (but "bad" too), "I respect that." I am asking how much you appreciate the sacrifices, not if you "respect" them at all. I "respect" Hussein's ability to rule 25 million people with pure fear tactics, but I am worlds from appreciating it. The second question was not about what Hussein did in his own country to look good. I am asking what he did for the world. If you think he was terrible, then I challenge you to go off about that like you have gone off about the United States.