Thread: Marriage? (split from do/date/marry)

Originally posted by Dangeruss
I don't get why everyone thinks they're too young to think about marriage. Marriage isn't just some consolation prize that we save for when we're too old to date. There are certain qualities that you look for in a spouse that you wouldn't necessarily look for in a date, and so it's never too early to start recognizing those things and thinking about what exactly you want in the person you're going to end up with.

Well, I actually said that I didn't want to think about it basically because I don't especially believe in/support the idea of marriage, or more like the idea that it's become. In most cases I just find it pointless. But for those who wanna do it, that's their thing, if it makes them happy, then go for it. Me? Unless something changes, (I suppose it might) I dont' plan on getting married.

Oh sure, you can know what you want in someone, but as far as saying that you want to marry this person or that person, I'd rather not and just let it happen when it happens.

Originally posted by Dangeruss
I don't get why everyone thinks they're too young to think about marriage. Marriage isn't just some consolation prize that we save for when we're too old to date. There are certain qualities that you look for in a spouse that you wouldn't necessarily look for in a date, and so it's never too early to start recognizing those things and thinking about what exactly you want in the person you're going to end up with.

Well... actually, I'm gonna go with Russ on this one. I'm one of these guys who still believes in marriage. BUT it's gotta be said, it fails in so many cases, and that kind of devalues it a lot. I definitely want to get married, BUT, I want to be DAMN sure it's the right person first. I agree with Russ that just because you're young, you should't automatically never think about marriage. But conversely, from a practical standpoint, young marriages DONT work out most of the time. So, I think young people shouldn't just rush into marriage. DEFINITELY think about it, but... yeah.

Marriage as an institution fails. A lot. That causes a lot of people to lose faith in it. There's a couple of things that I DON'T like about marriage, such as the religious overtones and undertones. But there's lots fo things I *do* like about it. If and when I find the right girl, eventually, I'd want to get married, and I want my partner to be my wife. The idea of a husband/wife... I dunno. Call me old-fasioned, but if you can have that, and if it can be *right*.... that's something special. It's sad that it rarely works out perfectly, though. Doesn't mean it's impossible.

That would be a great topic for extended discussion, Matt

I don't necessarily believe in marriage, just because of the way it works these days (it's more of a cage than a temple). But, regardless of what the temporary state of marriage is, I still believe in love, and that includes monogomous love. At some point I plan on loving just one person for the rest of my life. you're right though, choosing a person out of a forum doesn't really do the idea much justice.

Originally posted by Dangeruss
I don't necessarily believe in marriage, just because of the way it works these days .

Exactly. I believe in love. Completely. But what marriage has turned into? No.

what has marriage turned into, that it wasn't "before"? When and how and did it "change" exactly?

wait theres a difference between a temple and a cage?

good question, shark. Well, if you look at the evolution of marriage, it's pretty much just a way of keeping your mate with you against her better judgement. If she decides she wants out, in bygone days she didn't have a choice, and presently she still faces social stigma. Nowadays marriage is a legal agreement not to break up, and anyone who wants a divorce has to put half of their possessions on the line. I just want someone to love, and I want the constant affirmation that she's free to leave at any time to make that love more genuine.

Yup. And, ya know. 50% of marriages in the US fail

something's got to be wrong.

Originally posted by Gwendolyn
That would be a great topic for extended discussion, Matt

indeed, I'll split it and move it there

well, my take on it, is that it has nothing to do with the institution itself, but the fact that when you are young (under 25 or so), you and your circumstances have a tendency to change constantly, and if you think you have found "the one," it's pretty likely something will change over the course of your formative years. of course, there are many counterexamples to this...but talk to anyone and they'll tell you that nothing is the same as when they were younger.

I'm very torn on this issue...

I was married pretty late in life - about 30. I'm 45 now, and looking at like another ten years before the wife and I have hopes of having our life back to ourselves. Not that life isn't great the way it is, but man, do I miss the "old days."

Friends who were married young are seeing their kids marrying, moving on, going to college, etc. They are my age, and already beginning to really enjoy the fruits of their efforts - while they are young and healthy.

I think there is a reason our bodies go nuts hormonally and sexually at such a young age... it is perfectly natural to have children at a young age. We're stronger, generally healthier, have far more stamina, etc...

The problem with all that is the society and world we live in. The chances of a successful marriage increase as we get older and more mature. (I call this a social construct because most of us don't really HAVE to start really growing up and becoming responsible until our 20's or so - not because we aren't capable.) Consequently, emotionally immature people are getting married. Marriage between emotionally immature people is usually a disaster. They need parents, not mates.

I also think that the whole idea of love has been terribly mis-represented. Love has become a marketing tool. The chemistry of lust is touted as love for the sake of making a buck or two, and has been for so long now that it is pretty well accepted as fact. The problem is that the chemistry high doesn't last.

Love, however, does... and it grows and matures and becomes more and more profound. Then you have a child and realize you really didn't know ANYTHING about love - but also that there was no way for you ever to know until you experienced it for yourself.

And so we watch our children as they swear up and down they are in love. We know better, but we also remember being there. Lust is awesome, but it is only a seed... the barest of beginnings.

All this is to say I am happily married and think it is one truly screwed-up institution that can be the best thing in the world if you can get past the trappings and false expectations.

if 50% of marriages fail in america, is that b/c the idea of marrige is bad? or is it the people that are to blame? prolly both.

but anyways i think all institutions become currupt (some anarchists would tell you its only a choice between curruption and anarchy...maybe) So therefore marriage as an "institution" I don't think can work always.

as for love, love, is just some simple chemicals in the brain. Sexual and maternal bonding is just oxytocin from the pituitary gland right? Love is primarily an irrational expression( a trick to procreate), and when these ^ chemicals where off theres a lot of divorces. When people decide to get married the decision is, not always but often im thinking at least 50%, determined by the fleeting whims of emotion. Love manipulates all! ( its just too bad for the children of this often ignorant practice that have to go thru divorce bullshit)

Originally posted by ~~o/~~~~~/~~~~shark!

as for love, love, is just some simple chemicals in the brain.

that's true. then again, seeing is just chemicals in the brain. so is hearing, eating, moving any and every muscle, thinking--you get the point. whether or not you recognize "love" to be some kind of cosmic force or not, you can't deny the very real power the idea has over people and societies...it's only those that don't understand the concept that make this claim of the non-existence of love, and usually those still in adolescence.

Originally posted by mongreloctopus


that's true. *then again, seeing is just chemicals in the brain. *so is hearing, eating, moving any and every muscle, thinking--you get the point. *

It's true if you buy the theory that the mind IS the brain.

I, for one, don't buy that theory.

that's true. then again, seeing is just chemicals in the brain. so is hearing, eating, moving any and every muscle, thinking--you get the point. whether or not you recognize "love" to be some kind of cosmic force or not, you can't deny the very real power the idea has over people and societies...it's only those that don't understand the concept that make this claim of the non-existence of love, and usually those still in adolescence. *
[/b]

do you mean to say I made a claim of the non-existence of love?...yah i know love is real, thats why i said love manipulates all...

Originally posted by pj+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pj)</div>

It's true if you buy the theory that the mind IS the brain.

I, for one, don't buy that theory.[/b]

For this, I call you foolish.

<!--QuoteBegin-pj
I'm very torn on this issue... *

I was married pretty late in life - about 30. I'm 45 now, and looking at like another ten years before the wife and I have hopes of having our life back to ourselves. Not that life isn't great the way it is, but man, do I miss the "old days." *

Friends who were married young are seeing their kids marrying, moving on, going to college, etc. They are my age, and already beginning to really enjoy the fruits of their efforts - while they are young and healthy. *

I think there is a reason our bodies go nuts hormonally and sexually at such a young age... it is perfectly natural to have children at a young age. We're stronger, generally healthier, have far more stamina, etc... *

The problem with all that is the society and world we live in. The chances of a successful marriage increase as we get older and more mature. (I call this a social construct because most of us don't really HAVE to start really growing up and becoming responsible until our 20's or so - not because we aren't capable.) Consequently, emotionally immature people are getting married. Marriage between emotionally immature people is usually a disaster. They need parents, not mates. *

I also think that the whole idea of love has been terribly mis-represented. Love has become a marketing tool. The chemistry of lust is touted as love for the sake of making a buck or two, and has been for so long now that it is pretty well accepted as fact. The problem is that the chemistry high doesn't last. *

Love, however, does... and it grows and matures and becomes more and more profound. Then you have a child and realize you really didn't know ANYTHING about love - but also that there was no way for you ever to know until you experienced it for yourself. *

And so we watch our children as they swear up and down they are in love. We know better, but we also remember being there. Lust is awesome, but it is only a seed... the barest of beginnings. *

All this is to say I am happily married and think it is one truly screwed-up institution that can be the best thing in the world if you can get past the trappings and false expectations.

For this, I call you wise.

Just being blunt, please don't take offence.

However, I'd like to add a few words of my own. My parents were married VERY late in life. Mum was about forty, dad was slightly younger. That's MUCH later than you were, as an aside. My parents split up about two years ago. Suffice it to say, it was a bad marriage. Not violent or abusive, just bad. Why, then, did it happen? I put it down to biological instincts, albeit totally different ones that teenagers and young 20's face.

My view, is that no matter WHAT age you are, you're going to be facing biological instincts which, if you let them get the better of you, may not necessarily be in your best interests.

Marriage is a potential fuck-up no matter WHAT age you are.

That said, I'm still a supporter of Marriage. Just not a supporter of what it has *sometimes* turned out to be in today's society.

Originally posted by Dangeruss
I don't get why everyone thinks they're too young to think about marriage. Marriage isn't just some consolation prize that we save for when we're too old to date. There are certain qualities that you look for in a spouse that you wouldn't necessarily look for in a date, and so it's never too early to start recognizing those things and thinking about what exactly you want in the person you're going to end up with.

When you date someone, if it is anything other than sex... you will most likely be looking for the same personality traits and qualities than that of whom you would wish to marry.
In addition to that, young people go through a lot of change before they find out who THEY are.
So statistically I do not know the results but wold be willing to venture a guess and say that in todays world, that it is unlikely for a young marriage to endure.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

pj wrote: *
It's true if you buy the theory that the mind IS the brain. *

I, for one, don't buy that theory. [/b]

Blue Meanie wrote:
For this, I call you foolish. [/b][/quote]

for this, i call you close-minded and arrogant

personally i lean towards the opinion that the human mind is synonomous with chemical/electrical processes...but it seems extraordinarily arrogant to act as if differing opinions are reserved for fools.

black and white clothing makes one appear sickly, drab, and unattractive..

whooooww.... easy everybody. No need to get nasty on such an interesting and informative thread.

I've been married only for a couple years now, but I've found that being older and more mature has really made marriage easier (early 30's). Of course marriage is hard at times. We have so many expectations and attachments to what the other person should be like, that a lot of negative vibes can build up until you have to move to 'splitsville'. This seems to be the same for any common law relationship.

I feel that the strength in marriage is that you vow to stay together "until death do us part" to build the relationship. This vow can be taken without the 'official ceremony' (as many common law couples do), but may not hold as much power and be easier to break.

What you build the relationship on is up to you. Kindness, love, and compassion where embedded into my wedding vows (and into our rings in the form of three colored stones) since these are the qualities we wanted to develop through our marriage. The vow serves as a tool, or a reminder that even in dark times (angry times), we both have committed to treating the other with love, kindness, and compassion.

Because of this vow, I've strengthened my patience, wisdom, and love, and am becoming a greater person because of my marriage. I don't know if I would be able to develop personally in this way without it.

So I think marriage can be good, if done for the right reasons.

Originally posted by PhowaBoy
whooooww.... easy everybody. *No need to get nasty on such an interesting and informative thread. *

No problem, wasn't being nasty. I actually agree with a great deal of what pj had to say about marriage. About the mind and the brain? I just have very strong views on that subject. But in ANY CASE, that's not the subject of this thread. (Perhaps that calls for another Extended Discussion thread? )

I prefer to marry in bulk...it's all about quantity, not quality. ~

i like the 3 stones/symbolism concept phowaboy...excellent foundation for a marriage.

whooooww.... easy everybody. No need to get nasty on such an interesting and informative thread[/b]

no worries about things getting truly nasty..i know blue meanie can receive as well as he dishes out..and i believe levity is always dominant (i would hope so anyways)

when you have time you should start a thread outlining your very strong views on the brain/mind controversy B.M.

you could kill two birds with one stone:

educate all the lowly fools who think alternative forms of Mind/Consciousness are possible aside from the specific variety produced by the focusing apparatus of the biological brain, and start what would surely be an excellent discussion.

There isn't anything wrong with marriage...You just have to know when the right time is for you to get married, if indeed there ever comes a time. I think that the right time for marriage is different for everyone...Obviously, some people want to get married, other's don't. There is nothing wrong with either choice, as long as you fully understand what you are getting into. I personally, think that marriage is the right course of action for me - For Bob and I. I know that Bob and I will not separate or end up calling it quits. Call me idiotic, but this is something that I know wont be an issue for us. We always work our problems out with love and care and are infinately patient with one another. I would never even dream of being with anyone else...I-we-know. Anyway, there is nothing wrong with marriage. Just make sure you know exactly what you want in a relationship and that those coincide with your significant others' views. You have to be willing to work hard...But it can work. If my parents, and both sets of grandparents can have happy, loving marriages, then so can anyone who is really dedicated to that relationship.