Thread: What keeps you alive?

Originally Posted by Ginsan

Yeah, they are called hallucinations and have been reproduced in a lab with all kinds of gods and spiritual entities. It's a HALLUCINATION.

It sounds like you could use a course in critical reasoning.

Originally Posted by snoop

Out of everything or anyone possible and Jesus is the one to present himself to you? I'd be rather disappointed my mind hadn't produced a cooler and more creative hallucination than that.

My encounters with JC were a result of my intention to meet him. And again with the false "hallucination" label.

You are both welcome to believe that OBEs are mere hallucinations, but understand that belief and reality are two very different things. Just because a simulation OBE can be created using technology does not mean that naturally occurring/naturally induced OBEs are hallucinations of the same nature. Normal physical senses can be artificially generated just as easily using technology, so by the logic presented here, physical reality must be a hallucination too.

It is possible that OBEs are hallucinations, although in my experience it is more likely that they are not. The consistent nature of the experiences and the dependable laws governing the realities projected into, the incredibly powerful and very tangible activation of the energy body and chakra system and higher states of love and bliss directly linked to these experiences and the consistency of these, as well as the ability for growth and the development of one's nonphysical abilities and the heightening of one's state of consciousness over time in the out of body state, plus a whole range of unprecedented phenomena that would have to be experienced to truly understand, all indicate that something more than simple hallucination is taking place.

Potential happiness keeps me alive!

You guys realize that Jesus Christ the mythological figure is God himself incarnated into flesh. It's quite a cool legacy. Frankly, the way he is depicted in 99.9% of all paintings is like a confused homosexual. But in reality he is supposed to be a force that creates universes. I once "hallucinated" Jesus. And I am not at all opposed to calling it that because that describes exactly my experience. It was just a vision of his face and it changed into tupac wearing a cross. It was pretty cool. As a deity, I kind of like tupac too. Maybe Jesus is a imaginary story or it has some truth to reality. I think everyoone has the potential to be as Jesus. He claimed to be god which is not at all different from what the entire Hinduic religion is about whose claim is that we're all god. Islam isn't as open-minded it seems. To find Jesus is to find God. It doesn't matter if Jesus himself is dead or alive.

Maybe he is depicted as uncool but who knows he might have been a pretty cool dude.

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But I really like this Original Question in this thread and we are drifting off-topic

VINCE, people like you make me want to kill myself. When people use their intelligence to defend indefensible beliefs. Do you know why lawyers and prosecutors have to be so damn smart? So they can bend the rules, smart and dishonest lawyers can keep criminals out of jail by PURE ARGUMENT, and prosecutors can put innocent people in jail by PURE ARGUMENT. I can't win an argument against anybody who is argueing for his religious beliefs, often they are better talkers than me. And they can't admit and won't see how ridiculous they are sounding to me. These kinds of people piss me off, make me lose hope in humanity and the more critical and honest and try to be and see people, the more this kind of dishonesty I find. It's dishonest abuse of intelligence that pisses me off so much and makes it so difficult for me remain hopeful about the world. When you don't know something, just honestly say I DON'T KNOW. Don't start rambling about chakra or unseen power or whatnot. It's ridiculous but the world is full of people like YOU, VINCE, and it pisses me off. Why do people so readily believe and defend nonsense? It pisses me off, it ruins my day, and it diminishes my hope for humanity.

EDIT: Vince, come at me, but just know that I won't get back at you. We can argue until the end of time, but if you lack the honesty and critical thinking to detect bullshit and wishful thinking, I can't give it to you. I got out of this thread what I wanted, and I don't care about your posts anymore.

Self-destructing over something you can't control also defies logic.

Originally Posted by dolphin

Self-destructing over something you can't control also defies logic.

It does

Originally Posted by Ginsan

VINCE, people like you make me want to kill myself. When people use their intelligence to defend indefensible beliefs. Do you know why lawyers and prosecutors have to be so damn smart? So they can bend the rules, smart and dishonest lawyers can keep criminals out of jail by PURE ARGUMENT, and prosecutors can put innocent people in jail by PURE ARGUMENT. I can't win an argument against anybody who is argueing for his religious beliefs, often they are better talkers than me. And they can't admit and won't see how ridiculous they are sounding to me. These kinds of people piss me off, make me lose hope in humanity and the more critical and honest and try to be and see people, the more this kind of dishonesty I find. It's dishonest abuse of intelligence that pisses me off so much and makes it so difficult for me remain hopeful about the world. When you don't know something, just honestly say I DON'T KNOW. Don't start rambling about chakra or unseen power or whatnot. It's ridiculous but the world is full of people like YOU, VINCE, and it pisses me off. Why do people so readily believe and defend nonsense? It pisses me off, it ruins my day, and it diminishes my hope for humanity.

EDIT: Vince, come at me, but just know that I won't get back at you. We can argue until the end of time, but if you lack the honesty and critical thinking to detect bullshit and wishful thinking, I can't give it to you. I got out of this thread what I wanted, and I don't care about your posts anymore.

Wow. Such hostility. I'm sorry you are feeling this way. I hope you know that the feeling isn't mutual.

Let's be reasonable here and put all the cards out on the table for the sake of clarity.

My position is that it is possible, perhaps even probable, that OBEs are not merely hallucinations. There is no proof that they are simply hallucinations, and I have countless experiences under my belt which indicate that they may in fact be genuine spiritual experiences in a larger system of reality. But because I cannot be completely certain, I leave open the possibility that perhaps my OBEs are all in my head, despite how unlikely it seems at this point. In being completely honest, I realize I don't have 100% epistemic certainty that they are genuine, and I must keep my mind open to accept any future evidence that may render my current understanding as erroneous.

You're position, based on what you have stated, is that all OBEs are hallucinations because they have been able to produce simulation OBEs using technology. You are using a faulty line of reasoning. All that these laboratory-induced simulation OBEs prove is that it is possible to simulate an OBE with technology. Your premise does not justify your conclusion. I hope this is clear to you.

Take care

Originally Posted by VinceField

Take care

You too. I won't apoligize for my hostility. This time, I choose for honesty over decency.

Originally Posted by Ginsan

You too. I won't apoligize for my hostility. This time, I choose for honesty over decency.

So, in being honest, do you acknowledge the fact that your conclusions are born from a faulty premise and that you grossly overreacted based on unjustified assumption about my statement, as I have clearly explained in my previous post?

Make of it whatever you want, I'm not acknowledging anything.

Originally Posted by Ginsan

Make of it whatever you want, I'm not acknowledging anything.

Suit yourself. So much for honesty.

Originally Posted by VinceField

Apparently Descensus would kill himself if he didn't have his daily fix of biochemical reactions! That's extreme dude!

Less about killing myself, more about dying rather quickly not of my own volition.

The post was tongue-in-cheek.

Didn't finish reading the entire thread but coming from someone who has contemplated suicide for many years, what keeps me wanting to live is hope and coming to the realization that i'm short changing myself if i end my life. Hope that things may get better and realizing that there is so much more for me to explore, to see, to do, to accomplish, the fact that i've yet to realize my full potential in life. So why the f*ck would i want to put an end to it this early in life? Often times our mind makes things darker than they really are and out of fear we seek escape from this darkness. But our setbacks can also be windows for new opportunities.

Yes I agree. The answer I came up with is the same as what you, DawnEye and snoop said. I want to find out the things there are to find out and I want to expierience the things there are to expierience. It would really suck to die, just my curiosity for the things that are out there seems to give me enough reason to live. You said that our setbacks can be windows for new opportunities, somebody else said that no matter how dark something is, when you stare at it hard enough, you will see a tiny light. It's like the idea of ying and yang, many things are ambiguous, and almost all forms of happiness and sadness are ambiguous too.

“Only optimists commit suicide, optimists who no longer succeed at being optimists. The others, having no reason to live, why would they have any to die?” -Emil Cioran

......no I'm joking no dramatic teenager here or anything......

Curiosity is what keeps all alive.

I don't think many people consider their reasons for not dying. They stay alive because they want to, but have no idea of why they want this. But then maybe we are all the same. Maybe we are all driven to stay alive because of natural selection, organisms that have no desire to live are less likely to live and won't pass on their genes? But maybe some of us are just ignorant and pretend to consciously decide to stay alive, by saying "I want to live because ..." while we're all actually driven by the way we are as organisms. I find this really interesting, to think about the difference between having a reason in mind and the actual reason for doing something. When someone punches you and you punch her (or him) back you say "I punched her because she punched me". But actually you didn't say "she punched me so I should punch her back" and *slam*, no. I don't know the reason but biology and neuroscience can answer that question. Maybe this is something for another thread but I just wanted to put it out here.

Figurefly, I can see some sense in Emil's quote. Though I can't put it into words, maybe because I'm a little tired, but it makes sense And welcome to DV btw! I see you just joined

What keeps you alive?

Pursuit of knowledge and a healthy diet.

Probably my endeavors of becoming a doctor. I feel like helping people gives my life meaning
I wanna save some lives and make people happy
I wanna take courses on hospice and palliative care (which I'm still too young for), so I can help people cope with their terminal illness

If I died right now, I'd regret that I had put so much effort in my education without being able to actually help someone.

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