Thread: I am a shaman

I do not know exactly where to post this thread so I hope I am in the right area.
Unlike most of my threads this one is not really up for discussion.

It is who I am. It is what I was called to and answered to.
I didn't make this thread as something to brag on, or some other bullshit.

It's something I never wanted. It's something I hated going through.
It's something I hate now, and honestly I drink to get rid of it.
I don't want to be this, but I don't have a choice.
It might seem odd and whiny that I would make this but understand.
It's something I was bred for my whole life. and my teacher, my grandmother has dementia now. She has had it for a few years now.
So almost nothing she says makes sense but.... when my girlfriend talks to her or when I talk to her she's just her old self again.
No-one can get the same response. It makes me sad, the women I learned everything from now doesn't even know her own name.

But when we talk to her, it's Jason I need you to do this or Vanessa, watch over him and make sure he's okay.
Her willpower as her mind is becoming a tar pit is unbelievably sad and inspiring.

She raised me to look after my family, the ones who I worked for day after day, ones who still won't accept me.
She raised me to look after my people, the ones I toiled beside, day after day, ones who still think they are better than me.
She raised me to look beyond what our mortal shell could offer, and how to talk to ourselves, and our people.
How to inspire and Raise them, How to love them.
She was the one who showed me how to love these people
Whether it is the people I live with, or the people I work with.
They become my community.
When I go to class I become the voice of the class.

I visit my brother in laws church too bask in thier worship to the divine.
The spirits don't care how you praise them.
Only, look inside yourself and know.

I know I am a Shaman.
I know I will always have people to lead.
I know that burden will fall upon my shoulder.
And I wake up every day to it, and cry for myself.
I hate it, I hate everything about it, I wish I didn't have to.
But it's something I accepted and something I WILL do.

Because I AM a modern day Shaman, and we all need people like me to continue. Or else none of us would matter.

Nice. I'm a typing horse.

What exactly do you do ?

You know what do, then.

Man this guy really needs a strong hit of psilocybin or DMT. His imploding ego would create a black hole.

Originally Posted by Nhuc

I am a shaman.

No you're not. You're an idealist.

Which is good, you have high standards for society in general and yourself in particular. Cultivate that, but don't confuse it with mysticism. Gandhi, Malcolm X, Nelson Mandela, JFK, etc. accomplished what they did because they were intelligent men who overcame lesser impulses to reach a higher standard; but they were not shamans.

Originally Posted by GavinGill

No you're not. You're an idealist.

Which is good, you have high standards for society in general and yourself in particular. Cultivate that, but don't confuse it with mysticism. Gandhi, Malcolm X, Nelson Mandela, JFK, etc. accomplished what they did because they were intelligent men who overcame lesser impulses to reach a higher standard; but they were not shamans.

Every society needs a pillar!

Technically noone is a shaman. Its just a word. But to describe what I was taught and who I am now. It would be the most fitting for lack of a better one. I'm an avid student of mysticism and I honestly believe it can help you to become something much greater than who you are. But how I feel, and how I impact those I live with, yes, even tho it sounds strange and deranged. I am. It's not my ego. It's my dreams that tell me I am.It's the people I've helped, It's the best I can describe what I do with my life. I'm about to graduate and begin my career yet, regardless of where that takes me. I will always be that guy. It's who I am. I need to be the one people lean on, I need to help others. I need to be the voice they can't find. It sounds general and untamed but, it's not about me even though it sounds like it is. It's about how I can help others.
I like that I got a lot of good responses in my inbox from this. I was ready to let the thread just die as is, I just needed to get it off my chest and vent a little but... thank you those who support me, and those you don't believe me or support my ideals or what I believe to be true, thank you too for being the counterweight.

Originally Posted by cmind

I would further add that a shaman is a professional who's training and occupation is that of entering altered states and communicating with the "spiritual" for the benefit of clients and/or humanity (note: this doesn't require that you believe in anything supernatural). So a teenager who's done shrooms a few times isn't a shaman.

True, and more often than not, it requires no actual drug use. After all who would be believe the guy tripping on something.

Originally Posted by sivason

I was just being a smart ass and should say "I am sorry" to B-12. Sorry B-12.

Thanks for sharing your encounter. I have no problem with calling anyone a Shaman who desires to follow that form of spiritual inquiry. As far as I am concerned if the guy spends lots of time alone in nature and draws his spirituality from it and believes he is attaining a connection with "the spirit world" then we may as well accept his claim. It is not like the guy B-12 met was claiming any certain magical skill that he claimed could be observed.

How is this really any different than if we deny someone's claim to be a martial artist? That claim is not to be a master in one skill or be better than some one else. It is just a claim to having gone through many steps on the path of learning. The same fits the shaman argument.


The man on the path has given no reason to doubt him, so I find it rude to think otherwise, just as it would be rude to reject a claim that one is a Buddhist who meditates a lot.


Now, why was I being a smart-ass in this thread? The OP seems very dramatic and attention seeking in the manner that makes me think they are 16 years old. Add to that not a single comment about shamanism itself or how they practice it. At least no comments that make any sense. Then they fail to respond in any way, such as telling about experiences or philosophies. It came across a lot like "I am a Jedi!!! Yep a freaking Jedi, Play some Star Wars music, because that is how cool I am. No, I refuse to give details, it is a curse to be so damn powerful and awesome."

My comment about B12's experience was just joking around about the nature of comments that seem profound at the moment, but do not seem special when typed out on a forum.

I'm sorry if I sounded like a 16 year old. It was mostly me venting about an identity crises at the time and I really didn't want a discussion on the fact so much as to reassure myself that I am who I am.
I can't vouch for everyone who says they are a shaman. I've done little works on the part myself. Still being relatively new past my calling. It's a slow process for me. The biggest sale I can put on my skills was when one of my community members, almost a brother to me came to me and asked me to fix his life. He had failed out of school and lost his two jobs. I can't say how I got him back within the next two weeks because well, I already used my name and it was highly illegal. However a week of me spent working on him, and teaching him what I knew, allowed him to have his schooling forgiven, his jobs back, and him getting a nice refund check from the school.
Of course shamanism isn't some magical skill, it's something everybody holds within them selves. If you can lucid dream you can start. If you can survive your calling to the fact, you are. It's about caring for people around you, it's about putting yourself below them and making thier lives as good as possible through your sacrifices. It's about raising everyone around and not asking for recognition. Perhaps I failed that part and cried out. I did not mean to. I just needed reassuring. Again, sorry if I sounded like I needed recognition, I did not, I needed to talk to myself and posting something permanent is a good way. sorry.

Originally Posted by Descensus

I've only skimmed this thread, but has anybody (especially the OP) defined what it means to be a shaman?

The only defining fact of who is or who isn't a shaman is something called the calling. It's usually a life or death scenario perpetuated in one of many ways. It's hard to determine who's felt the nothingness of death and those who fake it. So, I suppose it's entirely up to the other party to decide for them self who is a shaman. If you believe someone is a shaman, then they are, if not, then they are not. Your perception is your own, it may sound general but however you feel on the matter is right.

Originally Posted by cmind

IMO, someone who talks like the OP can't possibly be a shaman. I've heard stories about real shamans down in the Amazon, and they don't sound like teenagers with inflated egos.

Just my 2 cents.

I respect your thoughts. I'm sorry if I don't live up to your stories. If it helps I'm well into my 20's. And my ego, is usually as humble as a human can get, sorry if I came off needy or such.

Originally Posted by cmind

Sacred =/= secret. Just look at a guy like Terence McKenna. Far from keeping his knowledge secret, he tried very hard to spread it as far and wide as possible. Because he thought it was sacred.

And isn't this website another example of spreading sacred knowledge to anyone who wants it? Lucid dreaming is pretty sacred, yet no one here wants to keep it a secret.

^I agree with this wholeheartedly. +5

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

Ok. I don't want to be offensive or hurt about it. But how certain can you really be about it? There is honestly not much information to work with. Besides, only OP is claiming to be a shaman.

Hope we can do this without resorting to I'm right ur Wrong kind of attituted. I'm just trying to facillitate the discussion

I suppose at best it's up the the individual to believe or not, no-one is really right or wrong due to the doors of perception. I'm sure if even if I wasn't a shaman, there would be a comfy middle ground for me to rest on, and if I was then indeed my reaffirming post would help me strengthen my conviction. After all, who does the person people come to for answer turn to?

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

Being a 'shaman' in modern-day society seems harder than it is from an amazonian village. Shamanism isn't exactly defined well. But say it constitutes what the indians did and it encompasses going into the desert for 3 days and eat Peyote.

This kind of freedom in this society is hard to get by.. Going outside and eating mescaline. I've been there. Encompasses strange faces, very strange experiences. And that is just training wheels for being a shaman if you ask me.

There is also no guidance. I mean, shamans are trained by other shamans per usual. I can very much agree that being trained as a shaman in this society without having guidance is though.

The calling is different for each individual however, mine did come from a brotherly standing point of the journey. My biggest influence was of course my grandma, but her dementia has taken hold strongly in the past few years and few if any of her words are to be regarded so I must make my own path. Most of the time I don't know what I'm doing, I can only do my best when people ask for help. And I give all that I can.

Originally Posted by Occipitalred

GavinGill, I will answer your comment. I am not sure I completely understood it so I will respond to it in different ways so that one of my answers will be relevant.



It's hard for me to understand this one sentence because neither the Krishna Consciousness member or I were being hippies. I was volunteering and had 2 "Spanish" classes per week with different teachers. We talked about culture, religion, and politics. It was very fun talking to all these people with different perspectives. One of them was a Jehova's Witness and it was a lot more fun talking to her than people say it is. My teacher who was an Hare Krishna member just talked to me about her own faith and I asked if I could go with her to the temple (after we had talked about these subjects for many hours) because I had never been to such a religious event.

I am saying this because there is a huge "hippie" traveler culture in South America, and not that I have anything against them, I did not happen to interact with them.



This makes a lot more sense! I definitely see what you mean in this sentence. Personally, I don't see what is wrong with it, though. Let me explain.

If you're saying my teacher was looking to Krishna Consciousness for enlightenment, well, why not? She was raised in a Mormon family. Her family was very religious. However back in that time (20 years ago), there was a lot of violence, you would hear explosions in the night, there would be black-outs and gun fire and you couldn't talk about politics to your university profs because a lot of them were part of violent organizations and you could be hurt. Anyways, because of all the violence, and because she did see auras and ghosts and stuff, she just didn't identify with her family religion. She turned to another catholic branch religion. It didn't work for her. In the end, she found the Krishna Consciousness, and that specific religion succeeded in explaining the things that she didn't understand about her life and give her a proper spiritual blooming.

I think it's perfect for people to reach out for Hinduism or Buddhism because they relate better to that. But like you said, there is as much value in a catholic or secular life. Personally, I am attracted by Eastern beliefs. It hasn't prevented me to learn a lot from many different religions and secular school of thoughts.


If However, you are saying that you don't agree that I would bring religious spirituality in the topic of shamanism, well, I don't know, I think shamanism very well fits in the religious spirituality topic. And the reason I brought Krishna Consciousness in the topic is not that I think that it is superior, I am not a member of it, there was just something that I thought was relevant, that is, you don't need to succeed at explaining something to someone, only exposing them to it is valuable.

(I have done catholic-sorcery stuff too in South America. I prayed to a mommy and watched until my candles burned out for my spells to be cast (all good ones). That was my Jehovah Witness teacher that brought me in that secret invitation only place. I'm just saying this because I thought it was very cool, and yes Catholics can be even more mystical than eastern religion believers sometimes).

While Shamanistic beliefs can be brought into a religious light, It would be best for everyone to wave the idea and instead focus on the core ideals and stray away from what spirits, or the afterlife is unless it can be explained in scientific terms, not only for the promotion of ideals through the board but also for easier peer to peer relationships.

Originally Posted by sivason

I looked up the most common definitions and the common theme is one who believes they can enter into certain altered states in which they can get insight or vision from "the spirit world."

I have no problem accepting anyone's claim to this. A future common theme is that they reach this state by drug use or other methods such as sleep deprivation or starvation.

A generally accepted sub-theme is a close relationship with nature.




I could call myself a Shaman by these guide lines, but really choose not to for reasons I gave above.

Note that The Shaman believes they are making some form of contact with "the Spirit World" and the truth of such topics as "does such a thing exist" are not relevant to calling oneself a Shaman any more than "does God exist" have a bearing on if someone is a priest.


I would never have doubted a normal sounding member who posted a thread of this title, but face it that does not apply to this OP.

I'm sorry I'm a wacko? would you prefer

Look guys, recently i've been having a lot of stress and I need to reaffirm who I am to myself but feel like I'm being vocal
I've been on the path of shamanism for awhile
I like it, I feel like it's what I should live for
the ideals, the beliefs, how I can help people
that all seems pretty cool mang
I feel like I went through this like.... calling thing they did
so I'm going to go for it
yea I had some tutoring on it and what not
but I feel like this is a good spiritual walk down what I want to accomplish in my life.
so I'm going for it guys wish me luck!

no
that's not honest, and anybody who posted that is just confused.
you don't have to agree, but alienating me from the community because you don't agree with what I'm saying... well man, that's pretty rude. I'm sorry if I don't sound "normal" but we are dreamers. and well... Sivason man, I feel like you could've said better.

What a happy ending!

Originally Posted by Nhuc

While Shamanistic beliefs can be brought into a religious light, It would be best for everyone to wave the idea and instead focus on the core ideals and stray away from what spirits, or the afterlife is unless it can be explained in scientific terms, not only for the promotion of ideals through the board but also for easier peer to peer relationships.

I brought in the religious aspect because B12 was being very mystical. I am pretty fluid in terms of looking at the world from different religious points of views and also secular ones. I agree that it is healthy to look at shamanism with secular glasses. But I disagree that it should be limited to a scientific view. I think that thinking with more "religious" views sometimes have real practical benefits but I do encourage doing so with healthy skepticism. I often tell myself "You know nothing" in a friendly way. The way I see something, my believes, they affect me but not the truth and I always remember that. That's why I am always listening to what different views have to say about one thing.

Anyways, I am happy you clarified your feelings to us. It was a fun/inspiring read. My response is the same as the first, a friendly:

You know what to do then!

(May you become what you were meant to be!)

Originally Posted by Occipitalred

What a happy ending!




I brought in the religious aspect because B12 was being very mystical. I am pretty fluid in terms of looking at the world from different religious points of views and also secular ones. I agree that it is healthy to look at shamanism with secular glasses. But I disagree that it should be limited to a scientific view. I think that thinking with more "religious" views sometimes have real practical benefits but I do encourage doing so with healthy skepticism. I often tell myself "You know nothing" in a friendly way. The way I see something, my believes, they affect me but not the truth and I always remember that. That's why I am always listening to what different views have to say about one thing.

Anyways, I am happy you clarified your feelings to us. It was a fun/inspiring read. My response is the same as the first, a friendly:

You know what to do then!

(May you become what you were meant to be!)

\\

Ahh I don't mean to lessen your voice, but since shamanism does derive from animism, it in itself should be limited. It isn't nearly as refined as say, Taoism or the like, and being such a primal ideology focusing on how it relates to the physical realm would probably be the best course of action. Even though in itself it is extremely spiritual. Thank you for taking the time to comment and read and for the encouragement.
Ps. If we are to talk about shamanism from a religious standpoint I feel like anybody not extremely knowledgeable on the point would feel confused. And it would all seem very odd to everyone involved lol.

Spoiler for My Worldview and Stuff:

Originally Posted by Nhuc

Since shamanism does derive from animism, it in itself should be limited. It isn't nearly as refined as say, Taoism or the like, and being such a primal ideology focusing on how it relates to the physical realm would probably be the best course of action. Even though in itself it is extremely spiritual.

Animism is a religious worldview (by my definition) and I have been impressed by the effects of seeing the world through those glasses at time. It has also helped me understand other religions, especially something my Krishna Consciousness teacher had told me. I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying since you say animism is not as refined as Taoism because this should not be relevant. Let me further explain... This is my personal philosophy. See this picture with the arrows:

Spoiler for Arrow Image:

Well, there's only one picture, just the way that there is only one truth in this world. However, we can either see black arrows pointing left or white arrows pointing right. You may just see one image first, and it will be harder to see the second image but if you try, you will. In the same sense, I think every worldview is like a perspective of this optic illusion. There are many worldviews. None is the truth. But all are part of it. And whichever way you see the world will affect how you behave in that world and how you feel within yourself.

So although I don't think animism is true in the sense that there literally is a soul in every object and animal, it does have real practical benefits when I view the world that way.

Now, in the case of shamanism. If you decide that you can only evaluate it in terms of science, well that seems impossible to me. Science is not a worldview, it is a compilation of repeatable observations that give us power of prediction. Spirituality is mostly introspection (I believe) and introspection is not considered science.

Maybe what you meant was to use a materialist worldview in which the world is solely made of matter and energy and that consciousness arises from that. Sure. It's a simple philosophy. I think it's the default philosophy I use when talking to people. It's easy to relate to because it makes very few assumptions. As far as I am concerned, I don't find many more benefits in it than that.

Anyways, to put all in perspective, I only started talking about this because B12 said we couldn't understand this thing a shaman said and then I assumed it must have been a non-scientific statement or else there would of been no reason not to say it. So I gave an anecdote of a religious person who shared the name of her god not to give understanding but to purify people. I was hoping B12 would share more of his knowledge, if he felt like he could purify us by telling us. Personally, it makes little sense to me that we would be purified by hearing any word, but I think that if people at least say something, there is more chance that we will ever understand it. And although I don't follow Krishna Consciousness, I have started repeating "Hare Krishna" sometimes because I like the taste of it in my mouth and the way it resonates in my ears. It's become a mantra that brings about a sense of self-awareness in me. And although I've tried to make myself a neutral mantra, it never works as well as this one, because this one has history.

Originally Posted by Nhuc

PS. If we are to talk about shamanism from a religious standpoint I feel like anybody not extremely knowledgeable on the point would feel confused. And it would all seem very odd to everyone involved lol.

I spoiler-ed this conversation because I'm not even too sure it is relevant to what you were saying. I completely agree with you, that you wanted to express how you felt, and there's no better place than the internet. Obviously, we all come off as arrogant on the internet, because we are mostly talking with ourselves in front of a computer. We talk differently than with real people. It's good. It gives us the ability to open up more. Too bad it's hard to see that when we read other people's comments and think how weird that would be if someone said that in real life. Obviously, I see why you would say that your experience does not rely on any religious belief. That makes total sense, I wasn't trying to say otherwise.

Being evil, I really don't care that people that aren't extremely knowledgeable on the point might get confused. The internet is very tedious. I can barely find any information about different worldviews on it. So if anyone on a forum is willing to give their complicated worldview, I will be excited to hear it. It's better than a crossword puzzle. If people don't get it, well too bad. (we can just re-explain if they truly want to understand).

To conclude I understand that you might not want to use another worldview than the materialist worldview to describe your experience to us since materialism is the reference worldview that everyone can understand without additional assumptions. However, if you are still feeling like venting and talking about yourself, I am genuinely interested to learn more about your exploration of mysticism. I would be interested to hear some experiences or even a worldview that you use to explain this to yourself. In any case, I might be able to use what you say as new glasses to see the world. I love collecting those perspective glasses. And yes, you might be scared to sound dumb but that's the consequence of writing on a forum. I know that what you will write will merely be a simplification of your experience so explaining your experience will in no way taint or blemish the truth of your experience, it will merely make you a better communicator of it. I invite you to tell us more, if you are comfortable. (And too bad for anyone who can't follow)

Originally Posted by Nhuc

Thank you for taking the time to comment and read and for the encouragement.

Thank you

Originally Posted by Nhuc

It's something I never wanted. It's something I hated going through.
It's something I hate now, and honestly I drink to get rid of it.

It sounds like many people and Christianity.

Just say NO

I met a man who once claimed he was a shaman.

It was away from home, with some friends, under very strange circumstances (read: altered state of mind) the likes of which very few obtain. My friends and I thought we were alone, then a small group came walking through a bike trail adjacent to the park. We spoke, and traded. The human contact was what both our groups sought. At one point, it was just my close friend and I, and an average-sized man in plain clothes with a rucksack. After some conversation, he told us, "I'm a shaman." We were like yeah, whatever buddy, though entertaining the idea.

My friend walked away, and I was alone with the man. I asked him a few questions - who he was, what he did. He told me about "his people," and some of his journeys. I still doubted him, until I asked him one more question, and he gave me an answer that I immediately understood to mean that he was truly a shamanistic soul.

We parted, and I grouped back with my friend. I told my friend what happened, and what the shaman said, and he was utterly mindblown. We realized that, through our own individual circumstances, we were meant to hear what the shaman said to me. After that, when it was time and I understood, I told one other person. They also immediately agreed, the man was a shaman.

To this day I remember his words, and my responsibility to impart them to the next soul who needs them will come with time, and I will understand.

^^ Any particular reason you don't wish to share that last question you asked him, or his answer?

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Any particular reason you don't wish to share that last question you asked him, or his answer?

Attention.

The existence of the post makes no sense in any other context.

Originally Posted by Denziloe

Attention.

The existence of the post makes no sense in any other context. In my worldview

Fixed



Another possibility is that B12 is countering the "nay-saying" of the possibility that OP is actually a shaman. In this case the post makes sense without having to impart the full knowledge of his conversation. It has no place here.

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

Another possibility is that B12 is countering the "nay-saying" of the possibility that OP is actually a shaman. In this case the post makes sense without having to impart the full knowledge of his conversation. It has no place here.

Perhaps... but that doesn't mean b12 can't provide the question and answer anyway, just to prevent the "nay-saying" to move on to him. What harm could it do, since we obviously are unworthy of either, and apparently unable to fathom the depth of either?

Also, countering the nay-saying of an effectively baseless claim with another effectively baseless claim (since its base was left out) doesn't seem very, well, effective.

Now I really wanna know what he said.

modified by sivason-

This post has been deemed inappropriate and has been removed

Would you impart sacred knowledge so freely? If I typed to you the words, you would hardly understand. It's not yet time for you, yet the simple knowledge that the subject exists will in time give you understanding. The words are just words, yet the implications are both challenging and life-changing.

Originally Posted by b12

Would you impart sacred knowledge so freely? If I typed to you the words, you would hardly understand. It's not yet time for you, yet the simple knowledge that the subject exists will in time give you understanding. The words are just words, yet the implications are both challenging and life-changing.

So in other words, we're not good enough to hear even what you asked this shaman. Nice.

It is truly amazing that you are able to judge our collective level of wisdom and understanding so easily.

And yes, if I were given mind-blowing sacred knowledge, I would freely impart it on anyone who would listen, leaving the understanding of it up to them, and not my own judgment.

One problem with mystical pronouncements that come with an "Oh, and I can't tell you what he said" attached is that that attachment immediately negates the significance of the statement... no matter how flowery you make the "I can't tell you" statement.

Originally Posted by Denziloe

Attention.

The existence of the post makes no sense in any other context.

The existence of the post might not make any sense in any other context, but the significance of the post is fully negated by the lack of the only information (the question, at least, and the answer) that give it credence.

Originally Posted by b12

Would you impart sacred knowledge so freely? If I typed to you the words, you would hardly understand. It's not yet time for you, yet the simple knowledge that the subject exists will in time give you understanding. The words are just words, yet the implications are both challenging and life-changing.

Your knowledge is sacred huh? Looks like we need another ego implosion.

Originally Posted by cmind

Your knowledge is sacred huh? Looks like we need another ego implosion.

I don't realy know how I feel about this comment....

I do know however that "sacred knowledge" and generally the word "sacred" is not used enough in this society. I wish there where more who used this word in honesty. I feel this lack of sacredness is gravely responsible for the darkness of mankind.

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

I don't realy know how I feel about this comment....

I do know however that "sacred knowledge" and generally the word "sacred" is not used enough in this society. I wish there where more who used this word in honesty. I feel this lack of sacredness is gravely responsible for the darkness of mankind.

Sacred =/= secret. Just look at a guy like Terence McKenna. Far from keeping his knowledge secret, he tried very hard to spread it as far and wide as possible. Because he thought it was sacred.

And isn't this website another example of spreading sacred knowledge to anyone who wants it? Lucid dreaming is pretty sacred, yet no one here wants to keep it a secret.

Originally Posted by cmind

Sacred =/= secret. Just look at a guy like Terence McKenna. Far from keeping his knowledge secret, he tried very hard to spread it as far and wide as possible. Because he thought it was sacred.

And isn't this website another example of spreading sacred knowledge to anyone who wants it? Lucid dreaming is pretty sacred, yet no one here wants to keep it a secret.

Meh. Thank god for that! I love Mckenna and I love LDing.

Terence Mckenna had some real issues (from what I hear, supposedly Dennis talked about it) with the way he presented his stuff. It certainly didn't vibe with Ram Dass the way he took the stage. Judging from the conversation he had with him that is on tape.

But ultimately, was Mckenna a Shaman? He was not. He was a profound story-teller, but he never consciously dared to make the leap to shamanism. Not after La Chorerra afaik. His book true hallucinations goes into shamanism but he immediately shrugged it off as a potential and never truly got into it.

Salvia has been a closely guarded secret for a long time before the west got a word of it. I believe Dream Yoga and Tibettan scriptures had sort of the same faith. At some point they announced that the west was ready to hear the news.. I'm just saying, Shamans tend to think otherwise.