Nazis, Islamic Terrorists - which is worse?

[Darkmatters]

The stated goal of Hamas is to exterminate the Jews of Israel, they use innocent Palestinians as human shields, and break every cease-fire. Isis wants to literally exterminate every religion other than Islam, uses beheadings and dismemberments against Christians, and has declared war on the US - they say their flag will fly in the White House and they'll see us in New York. They distribute magazines showing people how to build bombs and instructing them which kind of targets they should go for first. And yet America equivocates. Obama plays golf and has no strategy. In England David Cameron issued a very strong statement against these despicable terrorists. How is what they're doing any different from the Nazis, with their agenda of exterminating Jews and taking over the world by force? America enthusiastically joined in eliminating that threat, and yet does nothing to stop ISIS or any other terror group. Discuss.

[Shamanite]

Hmm well actually Israel is much closer to what Nazis were than what ISIS is, and I do not approve of ISIS in the least. It seems like you have fallen prey to a lot of media bias though, first of all I don't think you are aware of that video of that one reporter being beheaded is actually a fake. If you watch it in slow motion the ISIS member is actually using the back of the knife and making it look like he is cutting into his neck. Israel literally has teams for "public manipulation" that work to post online and have media bias against HAMAS, which fires like one rocket while Gazans get literally genocided. Do you know the killcounts for Israel vs. Palestine? Have you seen the maps over the long term for since Britain made a pact with Zionist jews to create the nation state of Israel? Do you know Israel is itself racist and deports blacks to sweden just for being black? EDIT: Ah and just so you know, Tel Aviv, Israel is the sex trafficking capital of the world. Russian and eastern european women get lured there with the fake advertisements for a great job, then once they get there their passports and papers are ripped up and they are sold into sex slavery. They get held up in rooms with locked doors and barred windows and get gangraped by Israelis, the police turn the other way. Just so you know thats the country you are defending. --- Here is a little graph to put everything in perspective, also to put into perspective is the history of the Israel/US Alliance, ever since Israel has been created, they have been stabbing the US in the back, this has started ever since the AIPAC lobby has been in control in the 50's. Notice how when you vote for president both of them support Israel. The thing is, if a candidate did not support Israel, they would make sure he would never get elected again. 96% of American media is owned by 6 Jews, just to put that in perspective of what side you think the media is on. Also there are over 50 people working on capital hill in very important positions with dual citizenship with Israel. Which countries interests do you think they have first? Israel or the US? America used to be big on being independent and not getting involved in foreign warfare, but the fact is that we (Britain and the rest of the allies) put the country of Israel and stole that land from Palestine, just cause eh, we felt like it. Ever since then the middle east has had a vendetta against us, and we continue to give them the most foreign aid out of any other countries, 9 billion dollars a year we give to Israel, FOR FREE. This is just the tip of the iceberg in talking about it, you have no idea how deep this rabbit hole goes. vp-violence-timeline-2012-11-23_0.jpg

[Darkmatters]

It's immaterial whether one video is fake or not (and no, I haven't heard the idea that it's a fake, I'll look into that). The fact is we do know ISIS beheads and dismembers people for being Christians, or Jews, or any other religion that doesn't worship Allah. Hamas is definitely the aggressor, Israel is defending itself. And I think the reason less Israelis are getting killed is thanks to the Iron Dome defense system. Plus the Gazans (is that the right term for them? I don't know) are also ensuring plenty of innocent deaths among Palestinians who they use as human shields. One thing that bugs me though - why do those Palestinians stay there? I think if a war moved into my neighborhood I'd GTFO, just like people do if there's a hurricane. I don't 'know' any of these claims you're making - can you provide some proof of any of them? Oh, I didn't see you'r second post. Just for your info, double-posting is discouraged here (and just about every message board) unless it's necessary or if more than a day has gone by with nobody else posting. You can just edit your post to add to it. I'm not very aware of the history of Israel. But I do know what you say about mainstream media is true - after all it was Jews who created Hollywood and television. I've seen all kinds of weird-o Jews are behind everything evul in the world conspiracy theories, and I don't know what to think of them. I'm not a person who automatically buys into conspiracy theories, but I also don't just reject them out of hand. There's sometimes a grain or more of truth in them. Here's your chance to convince me.

[Shamanite]

It's immaterial whether one video is fake or not (and no, I haven't heard the idea that it's a fake, I'll look into that). The fact is we do know ISIS beheads and dismembers people for being Christians, or Jews, or any other religion that doesn't worship Allah. Yes they do a lot of beheadings, and thats horrible. However as a country being the "World Police" isn't something the US should be doing, we are 17 trillion dollars in debt and the middle east is how it is. Hamas is definitely the aggressor, Israel is defending itself. And I think the reason less Israelis are getting killed is thanks to the Iron Dome defense system. Plus the Gazans (is that the right term for them? I don't know) are also ensuring plenty of innocent deaths among Palestinians who they use as human shields. One thing that bugs me though - why do those Palestinians stay there? I think if a war moved into my neighborhood I'd GTFO, just like people do if there's a hurricane. Do you have any idea what the map of Israel and Palestine have looked like ever since Israel was artificially placed there in 1947? take a look at the picture i posted four-panel-map.jpg Ever since Zionist jews have created a control over the banks of Britain and many other western nations, they have tried to reclaim their "holy land" even though they are not even ethnically Judean, they are Khazarian by genetics. This was the main driving force for World War 1 and World War 2. This is why I said to create a new thread because there is a hell of a lot of information you will be asking me for. The palestinians have fought to defend their homeland ever since then and Israel has increased in size and only succeeds due to massive money lent to them from the US. We give an extreme amount of our taxpayer money for them to fight wars against Palestine, when it was their land in the first place. So tell me how is Hamas the aggressor when Israel has slowly been making palestinians extinct since 1947? Also I do not know where you get your info from but I have legitimate proof that Israel uses palestinian children as human shields, maybe they found some dead palestinian children and used it to create a news story, I would not be surprised. Gaza Residents Share Allegations of Abuse, Claim Israeli Soldiers Used Them as Human Shields | Alternet Mahmoud was among several residents of the Gaza Strip who provided me with testimony of being used as human shields by Israeli forces during their ground invasion in July. He is also among the young men from various locations around the besieged coastal territory who told me they were kidnapped by Israeli soldiers, taken to a prison in southern Israel, physically abused and interrogated about activity by armed resistance groups operating in Gaza. The Israeli military and its international corps of supporters have accused Hamas of exploiting residents of the Gaza Strip as human shields, hoping to deflect from the whopping toll of civilian casualties they caused. But interviews with Palestinians from Gaza’s border areas revealed the opposite to be true: Israel has repeatedly used defenseless civilians to shield themselves from potential guerrilla attacks, brutally abusing young men like Mahmoud Abu Said during their invasion of Gaza. The practice is not only a war crime that violates international human rights law, it was outlawed by the Israeli Supreme Court in 2005. As we stood on the porch of the ransacked home of Mahmoud’s family, a drone buzzed incessantly overhead while squadrons of F-16s roared by. The red tile roof above us had been punctured with gaping holes from Israeli shrapnel; the interior of the house had been trashed by the soldiers who transformed it into a shooting gallery; and the house next door was reduced to a pile of rubble. But nowhere was the damage exacted by Israeli forces more apparent than in Mahmoud’s bloodshot eyes and nearly catatonic expression." EDIT: I decided I had to include this bit of the article “Traumatized!” his friend exclaims. “He’s completely traumatized.” After a drink of water, Mahmoud managed to pull himself together. He recalled what happened when the soldiers arrived on July 14 during the first stage of Israel’s ground invasion of the Gaza Strip. The entire Abu Said family had gathered at his spacious home, including 30 cousins. When a platoon of Israeli troops appeared in the dirt road outside the house, the terror began. After ordering the family to evacuate the house under the shelling their army had just initiated, the soldiers called for Mahmoud’s father, Abdul Hadi El Said. As soon as he appeared at his doorstep, they shot him in the chest, leaving him to die. Miraculously, after bleeding for two hours, he managed to survive and seek medical help. The rest of the family fled west away from the oncoming troops; however, the soldiers grabbed Mahmoud and refused to allow him to leave. Mahmoud said the Israeli troops dragged him back into his house, blindfolded him and wrapped him in a blanket on the floor as they began to blow holes in the walls to use as makeshift sniper slits — what US troops in Afghanistan called “murder holes.” Then the soldiers stripped Mahmoud to his underwear, handcuffed him, slammed him against a wall and began to beat him. With an M-16 at his back, they forced him to stand in front of open windows as they hunted his fleeing neighbors, sniping directly beside him at virtually anything that moved. When they were not using him as a human shield, Mahmoud said, the soldiers left him alone in the room with an unleashed army dog who was periodically ordered to attack him. It was on the top floor of Mahmoud’s home, in a darkened crawl space, that an Israeli sniper killed two of his neighbors through a murder hole. Saleh Israibi and Ala Abu Shabab, two young men who had attempted to flee under the intensifying Israeli shelling, were killed in front of their own homes. According to Saleh Israibi’s father, Suleiman, his 22-year-old son was shot to death while attempting to rescue a neighbor he found bleeding in the street. You actually have the audacity to ask why wouldn't the palestinians move? I don't know if you know this but if your house was being bombed without even a warning and you had to move where would you go? Israel is on all sides of you, are you going to go into the ocean, are you sneaking into the desert to die of hunger? wtf do you mean why don't they just move? They are treated like slaves in work camps. as for proof, most of it can just be googled, I went over a lot of things do you want proof of anything specific? I can give proof of it all and a lot more. EDIT: this was after seeing your edit. I don't really know what kind of whackjob conspiracy theories you've heard of but there is a very well documented account of wealthy jews running media, hollywood, academia, wall street, and a lot of the government. I guess the easiest way to convince you is to just show you which jews control what. 1396075158672.jpg EDIT2: well if you can't really see that picture well ill upload it to imgur http://i.imgur.com/kzMuX8v.png

[Darkmatters]

Well, of course I understand the news media isn't necessarily telling the entire truth. In fact I'm sure they're not. It sucks though when somebody comes in and say's he's got the whole truth and nothing but the truth and we need to trust him and his sources. You're suspect already because you're a Nazi sympathizer and apparently subscribe to a theory that Jews are evil and rule everything behind the scenes. Of course - that theory may actually be true and we've had the wool pulled over our eyes all along. I'll say this much - thanks to this thread (so far) I'll at least be more open-minded about these subjects and use what you've posted as a basis to begin researching. Not sure how much energy I'll put into it - I mean, you have to prioritize and I don't know how important it really is to know all about the history of the Jews. I imagine it would take a LOT of research to figure it all out (not that it's really possible to figure anything so complex out, all you can go by is reports written by people on one side or the other of the conflict). Oh, and the first graphic you posted is too small to read, even if I blow it up! Haven't checked the second one yet. And as to where should they go? Away from the front lines! Is it impossible to go to other countries in the Middle East? Isn't there some country that will take them in as refugees? And finally - I doubt you'll still say "let the Middle East be the Middle East" when new terror attacks begin in the US. Did you say that when the Twin Towers went down?

[Shamanite]

Well, of course I understand the news media isn't necessarily telling the entire truth. In fact I'm sure they're not. It sucks though when somebody comes in and say's he's got the whole truth and nothing but the truth and we need to trust him and his sources. You're suspect already because you're a Nazi sympathizer and apparently subscribe to a theory that Jews are evil and rule everything behind the scenes. Of course - that theory may actually be true and we've had the wool pulled over our eyes all along. I'll say this much - thanks to this thread (so far) I'll at least be more open-minded about these subjects and use what you've posted as a basis to begin researching. Not sure how much energy I'll put into it - I mean, you have to prioritize and I don't know how important it really is to know all about the history of the Jews. I imagine it would take a LOT of research to figure it all out (not that it's really possible to figure anything so complex out, all you can go by is reports written by people on one side or the other of the conflict). Oh, and the first graphic you posted is too small to read, even if I blow it up! Haven't checked the second one yet. And as to where should they go? Away from the front lines! Is it impossible to go to other countries in the Middle East? Isn't there some country that will take them in as refugees? And finally - I doubt you'll still say "let the Middle East be the Middle East" when new terror attacks begin in the US. Did you say that when the Twin Towers went down? Did you see the link to imgur? Thats how it could blow up, and you said you couldn't see the map graphic or the chart graphic? And yes there is a lot of information I learned about that is hidden that has helped me come to my conclusions. There is a lot about Nazi Germany that you don't even know, and the government before it, the Weimar Republic, why it failed and why Hitler rose to power, all very interesting stuff. As for where they should go, that is the Palestinians homeland, you are basically saying hey Israel is going to kill you, so leave your homes that have been in your families for generations and go run and hide. They are very poor people and barely have enough to survive, meanwhile the economy of Israel has 9 billion dollars of free money going into it every year and have luxurious beaches and resorts lmao. They LITERALLY have teams that post onto the internet to post pro-Israel propaganda. I posted an Imgur link to the second graphic so you can look at that one in the full text, and the first graphic, (The map) blows up perfectly for me but if you want me to put it on imgur i can do that too. Also we can pick this up again tomorrow if you want to learn or discuss/debate tomorrow.

[Darkmatters]

I was talking about the graph - the first image you posted, in your second post. It does get bigger when I click on it, but I can't read any of the words or numbers. I can see the Israel map fine, and that is very eye-opening!! Though there is also a 2nd image included with that one, a graph with red and white rectangles I think, that I can't read at all either. Oh ok, nvrmnd - I see the imgur link under that one now. It still seems odd to me that no other country will take in Palestinian refugees. And don't forget how many of America's major banks and financial institutions are also run by Jews! I know it definitely is true they control many of our most important institutions. If they really do have a secret agenda, then we're in trouble for sure!! Yeah, that's enough for today for sure!! See ya tomorrow. EDIT: Here's a question for ya… What have the Jews done that's so terrible? Since it's true that they do own many of the most important and powerful institutions in the US, it seems their rule has been pretty benign! They allow us to have religious freedom, as well as all the American freedoms we enjoy, they allow us our Constitution and self-rule (as far as we know anyway). Would the Nazis have done that if they conquered us? Or Islamic terrorists? Of course not.

[HeWhoShapes]

I would say the nazis are worse, but what do I know, I control the world don't I!? EDIT: now that I think about it, muslim extremeists are just as bad as the nazis, so there both extremly evil(accorrding to my evil jewish zionist morality of course!)

[Universal Mind]

Goal of Nazis: Take over the world, impose pro-technology totalitarianism, and kill off everybody who doesn't fit their strict genetic and political guidelines Means of Nazis: Take over one country at a time by killing lots of people, and then kill even more people Goal of Islamic terrorists: Take over the world, impose backward ass totalitarianism, and kill off everybody who doesn't fit their strict religious and political guidelines Means of Islamic terrorists: Kill lots of people, then take over one country at a time by killing lots of people, and then kill even more people There are some minor differences. While both groups want to kill innocent people by the billions, Nazis don't seem interested in killing based purely on religious differences, while Islamic terrorists do. On top of all of their other killing spree ideations, Nazis want to kill based on genetic differences alone while Islamic terrorists don't. At least people can switch religions. That works a tiny bit in favor of the Islamic terrorists. However, Islamic terrorists aren't very gung ho technology or economy, while Nazis are. That gives a few suckiness points to the Islamic terrorists, but not enough. Nazis are still in the lead in this contest. However, Nazis do not have a platform of sexism against women, while Islamic terrorists are guiltier of it than any other group that has ever existed. They make right wing Republican fanatics look like crazed feminists. It puts them in the lead after all differences have been considered, so they win the prize. Islamic terrorists are even worse than Nazis. However, I think Islamic terrorist groups and even dictatorships are total pussies compared to the Nazis, and I think they can be locally contained pretty well. We don't seem to need to hit the mat for a world war against them just yet. When they start looking like they just might come here and take over, it will be time to throw down. Also, about Israel... The founding of the nation was horrendously unjustified, but this is 2014 and generations later, so we can't just claim the whole nation illegitimate at this point. They are a democracy in a sea of non-democracy, and I respect that about them and hope the best for them. However, I think that if they want to have what they call a "Jewish state" in a place that Muslims consider their "holy land," Israel needs to play daredevil on their own. We have sacrificed way too much money and life to be their bodyguards in this insane game of chicken they have been playing since 1948, and we need to get to our own priorities. The war we have been in with a big chunk of the Middle East all this time is rooted in our relentless military support for Israel, and we are fighting off hornets that come from the nest to over here, fighting our own wars in the Middle East, and facing financial collapse over it. Also, I can't even conceive the idea of how it could possibly end in military victory without just bombing the Middle East into a sheet of glass. Otherwise, this madness will go on until we biologically evolve into a different species. We need to cool it. Good luck, Israel.

[Shamanite]

EDIT: Here's a question for ya… What have the Jews done that's so terrible? Since it's true that they do own many of the most important and powerful institutions in the US, it seems their rule has been pretty benign! They allow us to have religious freedom, as well as all the American freedoms we enjoy, they allow us our Constitution and self-rule (as far as we know anyway). Would the Nazis have done that if they conquered us? Or Islamic terrorists? Of course not. Well you have to understand the history of Jews and western civilization, which is why one of HeWhoShapes lucid dreaming goals is to destroy the Roman Empire (foundation of Western Civilization). They have been routinely kicked out of western nations for something they are genetically inclined to do, which they have evolved over thousands of years. Judaism was the only religion that could charge interest on loans, as opposed to Christians or Muslims. This is why they became bankers and the more deceitful they got the better they were off as bankers. Except many times they tried to shill the edgings off of coins to get more gold (England around 1200 where 269 jews were hanged for shilling coins and keeping the gold in their houses) Or tried to use their loans as a means to put people in debt slavery before the debts were even due (Spain in 1492 after funding the voyage of Columbus even) or maybe if you even studied the Weimar republic in germany, they were taking advantage of germans and putting them out of work, it was a whole nation in poverty, and the bankers were mostly jewish communists. In total Jews have been kicked out of western nations 109 times, Nazi Germany I think was the 109th time. Part of the reason Britain and other nations agreed to the founding of Israel was so that Jews would have a homeland and not to keep getting kicked out of other nations, (and also because Zionist Jews controlled a lot of the money supply, Rothschild family had already acquired huge sums of money ever since the Napoleonic wars) but Israel continues to leech off of Western nations like a parasite, bleeding the US dry. Although it is only a few rich jews at the top that have all the power, but here is the thing. Jews succeed the most in a multicultural society, which is why they push them so much in the US, as you can see what has been happening for the last 60 years. They only pass down ownership of their companies and jobs to other jews, they outwardly fund the gay rights movement in the US but are completely homophobic in Israel lol. They espouse different things that goyim should do(US) and that they themselves do. For example flouride is poured into most US tap water systems, even though it is banned to put flouride in water in Israel, because they know of its effects on the Pineal gland. I would say the nazis are worse, but what do I know, I control the world don't I!? EDIT: now that I think about it, muslim extremeists are just as bad as the nazis, so there both extremly evil(accorrding to my evil jewish zionist morality of course!) lol not all jews are bad, there are even some anti-zionist jews that have been very helpful in showing me a lot of truth about the holocaust, it is some of your own people that have exposed most of the truth. Say for example Bobby Fischer, Chess world champion IQ 180 (also jewish) that was basically kicked out by other jews in the US. Checkmate, Bobby Fischer. Finally, the United States got its man when Fischer, former-child chess genius, now 61-year-old chess genius, can no longer run from his past digressions. He was a once beloved American hero who, at the age of 29 in 1972, beat a Soviet chess player in what was perceived as a micro-showdown between the two superpowers. Every time Soviets and Americans faced-off in some competition during the Cold War the event had the underlying intensity of nuclear battle. Remember the 1980 Olympics when the U.S. hockey team beat the Soviets? Winning in competition back then was somehow a vindication of everything the United States stood for and Fischer was one of those rare individuals who took on the Soviet empire pawn by pawn. But Fischer is too individualistic for his own good, the same eccentric flare they say helped him defeat the soulless Russian, may have been his undoing. His mouth got him into trouble and despite Jewish roots he has often been heard ranting against Jewish people. But anti-Semitism is not a crime for the U.S. government to punish. What the elusive Fischer is being charged with is violating U.S. travel restrictions to Yugoslavia in 1992. At the time Yugoslavia was a country headed by Slobodan Milosevic, Serbian leader and war criminal. Fischer was there to face off against the same Russian he defeated in 1972 in a chess match. Fischer won and took home more than $3 million. So the feds have a legitimate gripe against Fischer who has not only made enemies with the Jewish people but alienated all ties with America since he started praising the Sept. 11 attacks and calling for America to be wiped out. I am not saying all jews are evil, I am saying the vast majority of people in power pushing their agenda are talmudic zionist jews. There are plenty of jews who hate this and say they give the jewish community a bad name. Goal of Nazis: Take over the world, impose pro-technology totalitarianism, and kill off everybody who doesn't fit their strict genetic and political guidelines Means of Nazis: Take over one country at a time by killing lots of people, and then kill even more people Goal of Islamic terrorists: Take over the world, impose backward ass totalitarianism, and kill off everybody who doesn't fit their strict religious and political guidelines Means of Islamic terrorists: Kill lots of people, then take over one country at a time by killing lots of people, and then kill even more people There are some minor differences. While both groups want to kill innocent people by the billions, Nazis don't seem interested in killing based purely on religious differences, while Islamic terrorists do. On top of all of their other killing spree ideations, Nazis want to kill based on genetic differences alone while Islamic terrorists don't. At least people can switch religions. That works a tiny bit in favor of the Islamic terrorists. However, Islamic terrorists aren't very gung ho technology or economy, while Nazis are. That gives a few suckiness points to the Islamic terrorists, but not enough. Nazis are still in the lead in this contest. However, Nazis do not have a platform of sexism against women, while Islamic terrorists are guiltier of it than any other group that has ever existed. They make right wing Republican fanatics look like crazed feminists. It puts them in the lead after all differences have been considered, so they win the prize. Islamic terrorists are even worse than Nazis. However, I think Islamic terrorist groups and even dictatorships are total pussies compared to the Nazis, and I think they can be locally contained pretty well. We don't seem to need to hit the mat for a world war against them just yet. When they start looking like they just might come here and take over, it will be time to throw down. The Nazis known about today have been the result of 60 years of jews making hollywood films agains them (schindlers list, inglorious bastards, all nazi zombie games, dead snow, +tons more) and tons of historical revisionism, a ton of textbook authors are jewish, and most of german history class is just being told they are evil for letting the holocaust happen lol. It is so intense that holocaust denial is BANNED in those countries, doesn't that strike you as odd that they would not allow open discussion on a historical event? Doesn't that tell you there is something to hide if they ban discussion on something? The real nazis were completely different lol. There is no evidence for gas chambers or ovens, they were well fed (at the beginning of the war) however there were many jews that died, but this was due to a typhus epidemic that was going on at the time and a series of allied bombing raids that destroyed much of nazi food supply lines to give to their work camps. They had hospital beds, orchestras, soccer teams, greenhouses, even swimming pools at the camps lmao. and yes I have proof. As for the 6 million number it is a gross overexaggeration and that exact number is shown many many many times in many newspaper articles written by jews, it is some holy number in their text. I can bring it up and show it to you that 6 million jews need to perish before they get their holy land back. Anyways they did not participate in any genocide and Hitler even bought the island of Madagascar. Do you know why he bought it? It was to deport the jews to it so that they could live on their own land. Do you know why he did not follow through? Because Madagascar could only support 6,000 people and he didn't want them to die. As for Israel, I would not care about their existence if we did not have to fight countless wars and give huge financial support for them to exist. However we fight war after war in the middle east to defend them and continue to give them huge amounts of money. I think the US should have a policy of staying out of foreign affairs and worry about itself, but the ones running the US have Israeli interests first.

[Darkmatters]

This is fascinating stuff. I'd really appreciate any links you can provide to more information. You said you have proof - I'd like to see some. I have seen Zeitgeist: The Movie and similar things, so I'm aware of the nightmare of fiat currency and the central bank. Interestingly I just read a brief analysis of Inglorious Basterds, and it's not really about Nazis and Jews, that's just the surface narrative. It's really about another genocide - of the American Indians. Here it is. And in fact, I originally had America in the thread title but removed it to keep this more on topic. Aldo's Apaches… the Jews represented Indians and the Nazis America. I can certainly see parallels, but in the beginning of course the settlers were a lot more like the Jews, refugees cast out of their homelands for religious reasons (that I know next to nothing about) and trying to survive in a wilderness. But later of course America did become a country and developed a military and proceeded to wipe out the indigenous population. Of course most countries were built on blood - history is largely a procession of hostile takeovers.

[Shamanite]

Ok, well I have enough info about this stuff to fill up pages of it with links, I guess if you want an accurate representation of what the nazis were like here are some videos about that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhGfCTA_6wA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL0T61XD-js Here is some more info to read about the holocaust The Zionist War on Nazi Germany Nazi Support of Zionism https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiped...adagascar_plan - this goes over the plan for hitler and madagascar I don't want to just spam the chat with a bunch of info so if you want evidence of anything then you can ask for a list of certain evidences and I'll give them. anyways the first documentary is 6 hours long but they made it into episodes on thegreateststorynevertold.tv

[snoop]

I don't think there is any point in splitting hairs when it comes to this issue. The means of attaining the goals for both groups is committing "evil" acts against human beings so they're both pretty guilty of some heavy wrong doing, I don't really care which has been more successful. We could talk about how the nazis are actually a larger group because they actually gave themselves a name, but the terrorists aren't all on the same side and aren't all working together, but if you lump them into one large group like you have then collectively they are probably the larger group. Depending on your (in my opinion, pointless) criteria for which group is worse, your answer could vary. Is it the number of people in the group, how many people they have successfully terrorized or killed, what their objective is, or how much money they spend trying to reach these goals? You could debate any of these things but they all do bad shit worth going to jail for life or in some states and countries, deathrow, so they're all just bad. M'kay.

[Darkmatters]

M'kay. All very valid points. Admittedly I didn't put much time or effort into creating the OP or the title, I basically just wanted to make a thread for discussion specifically about Nazis and Islamic terrorists, as a spinoff from the Civil Rights Moving Backwards thread, where this would have clogged things up. I suppose a better title might have been to compare/contrast them, or simply a "let's talk about" sort of thing. Ah hindsight. Shamanite, thanks for all the links. I haven't started in on them yet, and I suspect I'll be taking my time on this whole topic. It does seem like a very deep rabbit hole, and I'm not really ready to go too deep just yet, but I will look into it. I've been spending too much time and effort lately thinking about politics on various fronts, and am really ready for a break from it. But this really is an intriguing subject - I'm sure what we're told via mainstream media and school etc is not the whole truth and maybe fairly far from it. That's true of most important subjects I suppose. But unfortunately I do seem to have developed a liking for looking into these huge and complex subjects to try to give myself the feeling that I understand them to some extent (ha!) If you have anything else you feel is worth dropping here please, by all means do so!!

[snoop]

Don't get me wrong DarkMatters, I don't think it's a useless topic, it just needed more of a specific direction. Given all that I already said, there are specific reasons that you would want to evaluate which group is more guilty of what crimes, but if just speaking in general I just think it doesn't matter. In matters of law and punishment, it's quite necessary to analyze everything that's happened and decide which groups should be held responsible for what and deserves "this" to happen to them, etc.

[Shamanite]

M'kay. All very valid points. Admittedly I didn't put much time or effort into creating the OP or the title, I basically just wanted to make a thread for discussion specifically about Nazis and Islamic terrorists, as a spinoff from the Civil Rights Moving Backwards thread, where this would have clogged things up. I suppose a better title might have been to compare/contrast them, or simply a "let's talk about" sort of thing. Ah hindsight. Shamanite, thanks for all the links. I haven't started in on them yet, and I suspect I'll be taking my time on this whole topic. It does seem like a very deep rabbit hole, and I'm not really ready to go too deep just yet, but I will look into it. I've been spending too much time and effort lately thinking about politics on various fronts, and am really ready for a break from it. But this really is an intriguing subject - I'm sure what we're told via mainstream media and school etc is not the whole truth and maybe fairly far from it. That's true of most important subjects I suppose. But unfortunately I do seem to have developed a liking for looking into these huge and complex subjects to try to give myself the feeling that I understand them to some extent (ha!) If you have anything else you feel is worth dropping here please, by all means do so!! well, heres a good link with a shit ton of information that I think you will find useful The Jews - Pastebin.com

[Universal Mind]

Shamanite, what other sources do you have for what you said about the Nazis and genocide? You can see by what I have written in other threads that I am not quick to blindly accept what the media tells me, but my understanding of what happened in Europe in the late 30's and early 40's comes from a very long list of sources. I don't rule out the possibility that 100% of them are either propaganda or the results of propaganda, but it is going to take more than Pastebin.com to convince me. What I do know about Hitler from video footage and from what my WW2 veteran grandfathers said is that Hitler suspended major provisions of the German Constitution in order to make himself the dictator of the country and then pulled hostile take overs of 15 countries and promoted a "final solution." He knowingly started a world war over his hostile pursuits. Britain and France told him flat out that they would declare war on Germany if he invaded Poland, and he did it any way. That led to the deaths of 52 million people in addition to however many died in the concentration camps. Who did he think he was putting Jews in concentration camps any way? He also despised all Jews, and he made 100% of all Jews second class citizens in Germany before putting all he could in Germany and the countries he took over in concentration camps. I don't see how that doesn't make him a complete sociopath. Do you disagree with any of that? What do you think the "final solution" was supposed to be?

[Darkmatters]

Hey UM, here's a video I ran across while investigating this stuff the other night (lol, immediately after saying I probably wouldn't for a while) specifically debunking the holocaust, or at least certain aspects of it: http://trutube.tv/video/21170/The-Je...nker-Eric-Hunt I had to think about a certain other thread around here () when it was mentioned that one of the alleged survivors who told their stories was an actor. I haven't done any fact checking yet, but I've read a lot of the text pages and watched a couple of the videos, and I do plan to fact-check before making any decisions on what to believe. Honestly I have little problem buying into much of it, but I'm with you, I'm pretty skeptical on the idea that the holocaust was a hoax. The video I just posted does go some way toward making me start to doubt, but again I'd need to fact check before being swayed. Apparently there's some very strong evidence that at least one of the so-called death camps wasn't actually used for killing anyone, the big oven there was used to dispose safely of plague victims (there was a plague at the time) and the people who were shipped there were only processed (showered, disinfected, fed) and then sent on to another camp. And you know the film footage we've all seen of piles of emaciated corpses being bulldozed into a pit and covered with dirt? Apparently (according to the documentary) that was not filmed at one of the camps supposedly used to massacre Jews, but a different one, not associated with the Holocaust, and the people were supposedly victims of starvation, typhus, bombing and other war-related horrors. That part is right near the end of the video if you want to jump to it, right around 44:00. Ok, I'll let the video speak for itself.

[DeletePlease]

The Nazis had the potential to take the world over by force, and came close to doing so in a relatively short period of time. Islamic terrorists don't have the capacity to do what the Nazi's did. The Nazi's had Hitler, a military and political genius... So unless Islamic terrorist get their own Hitler, Mao, etc, to lead them sometime soon, I don't see how the two threats can even be considered on par. That being said though, if the terrorist were to be led by a proper strategist, they would be able to kick up some serious dust. But since they haven't managed to do that yet, I don't think they're going be setting off a world war any time soon.

[Darkmatters]

Good points. Another factor making Nazis far more powerful than terrorists is that they were a government, sponsored by a recognized country, with all the resources that gave them, and a tightly organized and disciplined military. Terrorists are a ragtag band of individual zealots with no discipline or structure aside from some cursory organization. A sad fact is that while Isis (the largest and most powerful faction) lacks a great leader on a par with Hitler, we have given them back all their generals who once languished in Gitmo, including their supreme leader MacDaddy, er, I mean Bagdadi (however it's spelled), and each time they take another country they amass whatever military equipment that country has. And while they can't conquer major Western countries in direct traditional combat, that's not the way they roll. It's all about the terror strikes and hiding among their people as shields. They can easily use the well-established porousness of America's southern border to get their operatives in without needing to pass through any type of airport security or get passports or anything of the sort. And apparently they already have ties with the Mexican cartels that are getting people across that border, as well as already having hundreds of operatives placed in America and other countries.

[Shamanite]

Shamanite, what other sources do you have for what you said about the Nazis and genocide? You can see by what I have written in other threads that I am not quick to blindly accept what the media tells me, but my understanding of what happened in Europe in the late 30's and early 40's comes from a very long list of sources. I don't rule out the possibility that 100% of them are either propaganda or the results of propaganda, but it is going to take more than Pastebin.com to convince me. What I do know about Hitler from video footage and from what my WW2 veteran grandfathers said is that Hitler suspended major provisions of the German Constitution in order to make himself the dictator of the country and then pulled hostile take overs of 15 countries and promoted a "final solution." He knowingly started a world war over his hostile pursuits. Britain and France told him flat out that they would declare war on Germany if he invaded Poland, and he did it any way. That led to the deaths of 52 million people in addition to however many died in the concentration camps. Who did he think he was putting Jews in concentration camps any way? He also despised all Jews, and he made 100% of all Jews second class citizens in Germany before putting all he could in Germany and the countries he took over in concentration camps. I don't see how that doesn't make him a complete sociopath. Do you disagree with any of that? What do you think the "final solution" was supposed to be? Sorry I was away for a while, I will get back to your post. You are told one side of history, the jewish side, and it is obviously shown in your understanding of world war 2. Much of what you said is biased and/or wrong. Germany lost WW1(A war in which they were not the aggressor. France and England attacked them.) because Jewish controlled corporations and banking institutions within Germany stabbed their host country in the back in return for the Belfour Declaration- that is: Israel. The Jewish corporations sabotaged the German economy and industry, intentionally and brought the Americans into the war. France and England, when they won, worked with the Jewish community to slice up Germany in the Treaty of Versailles. Immediately after the war, an armed revolution started by Communist Jews sought to take over what was left of Germany, it was defeated by the German Weimar Republic. However, the Republic did not last long, the debts incurred on Germany and the troubles of their people especially with the inflation, were killing the nation. (Jewish bankers and Businessmen used their positions to buy up everything within Germany - because of their access to non-German currency they could buy property at far below real worth. German people began to outright resent them - These Jews who had been persecuted in Russia and welcomed with open arms in Germany, were now sucking the nation dry.) Now comes Hitler. He attains political power with his national socialist party and begins to diplomatically reunite the disparate German areas. Alsace-Lorraine, Austria, Memel, Danzig. He's (mostly) welcomed with open arms by German people everywhere. On top of this reunification he also institutes a new banking structure. He nationalizes the Jewish controlled industries and banks, forces these industries to pay a fair wage to German people in the new German currency for fair hours (7-8 becomes standard, unlike the rest of the world), stops debt payments for the Treaty of Versailles, and puts the people to work on massive public works and infrastructure projects - such as the Autobahn. Jewish communities are outraged and declare war on Germany, with their influence they ensure that Germany is unable to effectively trade in their new dollars outside of the nation and all German products are boycott. Germany manages to trade for outside goods using gold and a barter system. Meanwhile the entire world buckles under the economic collapse called the Great Depression. Within 3 years the German economy has not only recovered, it has absolutely prospered. The public works projects ensured 100% employment by building out infrastructure (There was 0% unemployment in Nazi Germany), the inflation is gone, working hours have been reduced, German companies make German goods for German people, the nation is more productive and prosperous; In three years time they go from one of the poorest nation in Europe to the richest. This frightens politicians in France, England, they begin to come up with plans to beat Germany in another war, Jewish members in both governments are the primary instigators of this. At this time, Hitler begins to create his army, one that focuses heavily on technology, combined arms, strategy and tactics. At the same time, France and POland both militarize their borders. Hitler begins to feel as though he is being encircled by these allied powers. As this is happening, he is still fighting for the diplomatic reunification of Germany - there are German communities in the Danzig corridor as well as Danzig itself, and along the border with Poland, that he wants within his German nation, but he does not want to go to war to attain them. He makes appeals and offers concessions to the Polish government, but they categorically refuse every offer he makes. Behind the scenes, Poland is planning a war on Germany, and is working with France and the United Kingdom - who have secretly offered to join should Poland attack or be attacked. War is coming whether the Germans want it or not. Stalin has also guarunteed Polish independence, but Stalin does not care for Poland, what he wants is a European war to weaken all of Europe so that his new armies (Which he is gutting and murdering the people of his nation to build) may march across the continent. Hitler and Stalin secretly come to an agreement in regards to an agreement as well: Russia will not intervene if Poland is attacked. At this point, the problem in the Danzig corridor is rapidly escalating. The Germans are beginning to find German refugees fleeing across the border and there are reports that entire communities are being murdered. This infuriates Hitler and he demands the Polsh government intervene, they ignore him. By this point, Hitler has moved his own military to the border and finally gives the order to invade. 3 days later, his troops find damning evidence of ongoing ethnic cleansing of German peole throughout the entire Danzig Corridor. They document it all, take the instigators into custody (The ethnic cleansings were lead by Polish Communist Jews) and execute them, and proceed with the annexation of Poland. In total, some 50,000 - 80,000 Germans have been murdered by the Polish army and Jewish communists within the Polish territories. The war,a s you may imagine, rapidly escalates further as France and England declare war on Germany. Note: They declare war on Germany, not the other way around. Hitler's military very quickly steamrolls across France and surrounds the British Army on the mainland. Hitler at this point makes probably the single worst decision of his entire career, and allows the Britsh Army to flee back to England from Dunkirk, under the impression that this show of good faith will allow the British to see that he does not want war. But Churchill wants this war, he wants Germany ground to dus. This is only exacerbated by the Jews, whom offer guidance to the allied leadership in destroying Germany. Now, Stalin makes his move. He's built a thousand new airfields along the western border, he's moving his troops into attack positions all along the border and he is preparing his invasion of Europe. Hitler receives and intelligence report verifying as much from a private conversation Stalin had among his top aides and officials. There is no way out of this, so Hitler orders the immediate attack on Stalin, if he is fast enough, the Soviets will fall. Meanwhile the backrooms of the president's office in America, President Roosevelt is being encouraged by Jewish politicians and diplomats, to join the UK and the Soviets in their war against Germany. The americans have already given the British some 50 warships to aid in the war effort, and are continuing to give the soviets massive numbers of supplies, very soon America - at the prodding of Jews and British politicians, will enter the war. and he made 100% of all Jews second class citizens in Germany before putting all he could in Germany and the countries he took over in concentration camps I have some information to look at for this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

[Original Poster]

http://youtu.be/GQxwaVQWSbY Russel brand explains why Isis is being presented as such an imminent threat. The threat was created by American interest groups and junior partners, it's funded and trained by the US. More violence will not reverse the escalation, but you're wanted to think that because an escalation in violence means more profit. If you want to know the biggest threat Americans currently face, you're closest by saying nazis, the collusion between Koch and the GOP is aimed toward fascism, police and military are becoming impossible to differentiate and trained in brutal protest suppression tactics. The stingray is now up an running in police departments across the country mimicking cell pone towers to transfer all your phone data directly to the police. Isis is not only a planned occurrence but a necessary one to escalate violence and the necessity for oppression over here, and reacting to it in such a fearful manner plays to that purpose.

[Darkmatters]

Some of what you say may be true - but I wish you had a more credible source than a goofball hippie comedian. Fascism isn't associated with the right - when you think about fascist regimes they've all been socialist and communist. At least the ones I know about, I'm not a political historian or anything, but the fascists states I'm aware of are Nazis (National Socialists), Communist Russia, Mussolini and Castro, Communist China and North Korea etc. Plus in America (and elsewhere) it's the left that tries to dictate what people are allowed to say and think, and uses accusations of racism, sexism, homophobia etc to generate unthinking hysterical hatred of their opponents. That sounds like fascist thought police to me. And as always, when I bring this up, I feel I need to add that I am in favor of equal rights and equal responsibilities for all minorities, I am not a bigot, but I also don't believe that support for the rights of minorities means you need to jump full force on the cultural marxist bandwagon. They've just appropriated the various equal rights movements and use them for their own purposes to stir animosity and hatred and divide in order to conquer. And if we follow your idea that government is in collusion with terrorists to its logical conclusion, does it mean that government was behind the 9-11 terror strikes? Or assisted in them in some way? The left is not liberal anymore - actually today's conservative party is a lot closer to classical liberalism, which was all about personal freedoms and a free market, the ideas on which America was founded and which the left tries to sabotage with overregulation of the free market and of what we're allowed to say and think. Note I am not a supporter of modern conservatism as it exists now either. Actually libertarianism might be even closer to the original Liberalism, but not knowing much about it it's hard to say. I've heard that even libertarianism has somehow been moved to the left, but I don't know what that means. I'll see your Russell Brand and raise you a Rocking Mr. E (another long-haired hippy type, but not a comedian or celebrity):

[Darkmatters]

@ OP - I need to learn more about this Koch person - in fact I think you're right about the purpose of Isis. It just seems odd how much fear mongering the media is doing about it. One thought that occurs to me, but this may be what they want us to think as well - if we woke the sleeping giant of terrorism and armed the terrorists and pissed them off so much, then maybe it should be our responsibility to knock it down, and to take the weapons back? But anyway, my main reason for posting is to put this up: The problem with the spectrum showing socialism and communism on the left and fascism on the right (aside from the point I already made, that it's mainly just the communists and socialists who resort to fascism) is that it leaves out Individualism completely, which is what America was founded on. Individualism isn't a political party, its an end of the spectrum that has Collectivism at the other. Collectivism of course being socialism and communism and other totalitarian states, and individualism being the idea that people should have certain inalienable rights which should be guaranteed and protected by government. At the collective end of the scale people all sacrifice their rights to the collective. Here's the video explaining the image:

[Universal Mind]

Shamanite, your answer to my concentration camp question seems to be that Jewish communities declared war on Germany. Wouldn't that mean certain Jewish individuals did that, if it happened? Does it make sense to imprison an entire culture over some people in it talking crazy stuff? What you posted is far from what my sources have told me my whole life, and I have come across zillions of them. What are your top sources? Dark Matters, my conclusion at this point is that the left/right and liberal/conservative paradigms lack meaning. In 2014, I am not even sure what a "liberal" is supposed to be. The vast majority of people who claim that label love a president who is gung ho war and walks all over the Bill of Rights. I don't know what they stand for any more. Also, realities like communism really throw a monkey wrench into the distinction realm because there is so much right wing and so much left wing about communism. Trying to label it with those terms gets pretty confusing. The spectrum that I now think has more significance is one involving levels of government control. The big debate that is emerging is how much control the government should have. At one end, you have totalitarians, and that includes Nazis and communists (supporters of actual communist governments) as well as other groups. On the other side are libertarians, and past that group are anarchists. Some people will say that they are anarcho-communists, but reality has proven that such a thing cannot exist. National scale communism cannot exist without an extremely controlling government.