Arguing - When to stop being nice

**Arra** · 11-23-2012 12:46 PM

Is it ever okay to be mean to the person you're arguing with? If so, under what circumstances and why?

Some people are almost always nice. Even while they're arguing, they'll act as nice and polite as possible. Before and after the criticisms, they'll insert some friendly points of agreement and make sure the opponents know they're still respected - no matter how stupid what they're saying is. This makes sense in a way. If people like you more, they'll feel less threatened, they'll be more likely to continue talking and might even be more willing to change their views.

On the other hand, I've heard the argument that some people need to be jolted out of their set beliefs with a bit of unfriendly criticism. When their beliefs are criticized too lightly and are decorated with compliments and points of agreement, they aren't as likely to seriously reconsider their beliefs. Instead, they'll dwell on the positive things and leave the arguments thinking they made new friends, that "I believe this and she believes that and we can accept our differences." Niceness only lightens the issues.

Furthermore, it's often easier to argue with a bit of maliciousness. It's sometimes easier to explain why someone is wrong by using some cheeky, mean joke, a metaphor or analogy, or simply by being blunt. For example, if you think the person is being overall irrational, is simply not using logic correctly, there is really no way to tell them that without sounding mean. So if someone is intent on remaining nice, things like that will remain unsaid.

**Marvo** · 11-23-2012 02:32 PM

If you are actually trying to convince anyone of anything, being mean is generally pointless. You can be blunt, direct, harsh and a lot of other things, without actually being [I]mean[/I

If you are actually trying to learn something, expand your horizons, possibly even open to changing your point of view, then being blunt, direct, etc. is generally a bad idea, because these qualities are usually closely tied with being on defense or offense, and it's very rare for any person, ever, to admit that the other party was right, in such situations, even if they deep down know they are wrong them selves. Don't put your self into a situation where you might have to admit defeat, because the mere fact that you have to admit defeat, means that you were not actually out to learn anything in the first place. You just wanted to tell other people that they are dumb, or convince them that you are right, either to cement your security in your own ideas, or simply because you like it when people believe what you say.

**Carôusoul** · 11-23-2012 02:47 PM

Don't say another Goddamn word. Up until now, I've been polite. If you say anything else - word one - I will kill myself. And when my tainted spirit finds its destination, I will topple the master of that dark place. From my black throne, I will lash together a machine of bone and blood, and fueled by my hatred for you this fear engine will bore a hole between this world and that one. When it begins, you will hear the sound of children screaming - as though from a great distance. A smoking orb of nothing will grow above your bed, and from it will emerge a thousand starving crows. As I slip through the widening maw in my new form, you will catch only a glimpse of my radiance before you are incinerated. Then as tears of bubbling pitch stream down my face, my dark work will begin. I will open one of my six mouths, and I will sing the song that ends the Earth.

**Jmanjordan** · 11-23-2012 02:53 PM

Carousoul... That was beautiful

**Marvo** · 11-23-2012 04:12 PM

It's from Penny Arcade.

**Ctharlhie** · 11-23-2012 06:21 PM

Thank God for HP Lovecraft.

EDIT:

*Notices own avatar*

Oh.

**Original Poster** · 11-26-2012 04:43 AM

When you're drunk.

**♥Mark** · 11-26-2012 05:02 AM

It's okay to be mean to stupid people because you're better than them.

**tropicalbreeze** · 11-26-2012 06:56 AM

^^ i guess its ok for me to be mean to you.......idiot lol

**Universal Mind** · 11-26-2012 08:29 PM

You can tear an argument to shreds and use all kinds of hard hitting analogies without ever insulting the other person on a personal level. Ad hominem is worthless in the quest to make points about an issue. However, if the other person insults you personally, it's totally moral to insult that person. It just has nothing to do with winning the debate about the original issue, unless the original issue is what kind of person your opponent is.

**Universal Mind** · 11-26-2012 08:34 PM

You can tear an argument to shreds and use all kinds of hard hitting analogies without ever insulting the other person on a personal level. Ad hominem is worthless in the quest to make points about an issue other than the nature of the other person. However, if the other person insults you personally, it's totally moral to insult that person. It just has nothing to do with winning the debate about the original issue, unless the original issue is what kind of person your opponent is.

**Thatperson** · 12-05-2012 03:17 PM

I am usually polite. Although as a passionate individual I sometimes let my points get a bit heated. Personally I largely see debate and argument, especially with someone who is steadfastly opposed to your point of view as pointless. I don't think anyone can ever "lose" and argument. Unless you actually convert the other person to your side, what have you achieved? Discussion with a neutral party is useful, but they are not putting up a fight, you're just telling them your point of view, and then letting them mull over it. The only purpose of debate that I really see is for two people who agree on the core issue, discussing amongst themselves the best way to move forward. Debate has no real purpose unless you agree on some things.

The amount of time I've spent in here(Extended Discussion) arguing in a loop more than illustrates that

**Original Poster** · 12-06-2012 12:40 AM

The brain releases a chemical to make you go defensive when you feel like your ideas are being threatened. Conversely, when you feel like your ideas are being validated you release a chemical that makes you more open minded.

If you want to win an argument you have to understand that person's side of the issue. If you show understanding to them, they can show the same understanding back. If you attack, they will naturally shut off and narrow their minds.

But understanding is no fun. Especially when someone says something stupid.

**Kuhnada29** · 12-07-2012 11:45 PM

Arguments.....If me and my gal arguing i might end up mad or something for a minute, but always end up laughing again to lighten the situation. Then when I laugh she laughs..Im rarely so serious anymore

Live, have fun, enjoy, die..

**Descensus** · 12-08-2012 12:10 AM

Generally I attempt to be neutral in tone in arguments (as in, neither too nice nor too mean). But if a person is arguing some really dumb case that is either just plain wrong or actually frightening (like "conscription is a good idea!" or "let's ban vaccines!"), then I tend to stop being nice. In a way, I can't help it.

**Alric** · 12-08-2012 12:57 AM

If you are trying to convince them of something you will never win being mean. People just dig in and will stop listening to you.

**Kuhnada29** · 12-08-2012 05:23 AM

I think a large part of it also is accepting people how they are

Sometimes you gotta just smile and let the person argue by themself..then they look crazy ha

**Carrot** · 12-15-2012 08:03 PM

If you're too mean, they will think you are stupid or stubborn. It leaves you with a bad feeling too, eventually you don't gain anything out from the argument other than negative emotions.

But sometimes if you're too nice, it feels like you aren't being truthful to yourself.

**Abra** · 12-17-2012 10:22 PM

If what you are saying doesn't directly prove your point, then omit it from the argument. No insults, no exaggerations.

If they stop being civil (not nice, just civil. Being nice is just as pointless as being mean.), then stop the argument, since that is not how arguments are done.

**Original Poster** · 12-17-2012 11:18 PM

Sometimes I foolishly engage in pissing contests with people who are obviously only interested in reinforcing an inflated ego. But my ego is inflated, too, so it makes sense I have trouble backing down from instigators.

**dutchraptor** · 12-17-2012 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Sometimes I foolishly engage in pissing contests with people who are obviously only interested in reinforcing an inflated ego. But my ego is inflated, too, so it makes sense I have trouble backing down from instigators.

I guess this is most people's natural response. Sometimes it's hard to overcome emotions with logic.

**Carôusoul** · 12-20-2012 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jmanjordan

Carousoul... That was beautiful

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

**♥Mark** · 12-20-2012 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

mark my fucking words

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch?

**Marvo** · 12-21-2012 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

u mad